Elk Hunting Basics...Your Move, Thread #4

[Swede]

It is just getting daylight as you pick up your bow and start the climb uphill along the edge of an old clear cut unit. When you reach the top of the unit about 1/3 mile away you will come to a wide flat ridge which breaks off on the far side and descends below into a well timbered canyon. There is a perennial creek in the canyon bottom. There are several side streams that run into the canyon also. You have scouted out this area, and know a well used elk bedding area is about 200 feet below the brink of the ridge on the far side on a fairly large bench. There are some well worn trails on the bench. These trails lead to a couple very small springs. This time of day the wind is descending and the bench is a little over 2/3 mile from where you are now. The day is expected to be sunny and the temperatures should reach to low 80s.
If you hunt this area right, there is a good chance to get a good bull. If you mess up, better luck next year.

[stringunner]

Good one John. I will be interested to see what everyone has to say about this one.

[cnelk]

In my experience, when it warms up quickly due to a hot day, the typical thermals do not last long and switch early.
I would wait for that magic time and advance toward the bench.
Since you have pre-scouted it, a makeshift ground blind would be a good idea on the uphill side of the bench.
Wait there all day for an elk to shoot

[Swede]

Stringunner: Go ahead and add any details to the problem you feel would be of benefit. In the end you can give the answer.

[WapitiTalk1]

Ahh. A tag team thread .

[stringunner]

To ADD to the scenario: along the creek at the bottom of the canyon runs a fairly active hiking trail that gets hit pretty hard with hunters "running and gunning" blowing their bugles and hyper hot cow calls , making many of the "real" elk in this area SEMI call shy.

[Elkduds]

What phase is the moon, what time did it set? Were they bugling in the night, possibly from the clearcut or ridge?

I'm late leaving the truck, wanted to be on the canyon rim well before it got light.

Which side of the creek canyon is most north-facing? The side w the bench, or the side across the creek?

Is there another feeding area than the old clear cut? Game trails from clear cut across ridge to bench?

Any other water than the creeks/springs in the canyon? Wet or dry year?

Expected to storm after warm day today, or stay fair?

[Trophyhill]

My initial impression is that these elk are bedding in cover between feeding and watering areas with a wide ridge that rounds out the 4 ingredients of great elk habitat. I'm thinking the elk are feeding along the clear cut at night and early to mid morning and again in the evening, drinking where they want at night and some time during the day from the springs. I'd want to approach these elk by coming in from the backside of this mountain waiting for the thermals to switch. I like this scenario because I have several options that can be played out over several days giving me time to figure out optimum times that the elk are moving. I can ease in and sit tight near a trail leading to a waterhole being careful to avoid the bedding area at all costs for a possible mid morning to mid day silent ambush, or I can find a trail leading from bedding to feeding. In either case I want to be close enough to be able to hear a bedded bulls occasional "lazy bugle" which from what I've experienced can be heard out to about 300 yards depending on the density of the timber. If sitting quietly near or between the 2 trails leading to water didn't produce an elk or at least a sighting on day 1 I'd figure the elk are hitting water at night or early morning so I'd slip out careful not to spook any elk and adjust to plan b. I'd move to the trail leading from bedding to feeding the next day careful not to be seen or smelled again sitting tight and listening. I'm thinking those elk are feeding on the edges of those clear cuts during last light. This time though if I'm not hearing anything, about an hour before dark I have 2 sounds I like. Either a locate bugle or a pleading cow sound. Since these elk have been bulged to non stop from down below in the opposite direction from where I'm set up id opt for the pleading cow sound. At the very least I should get a response. Now I've got to "read the situation" this is where it gets dicey for me. Is the elk calling me to him or is he coming? you'll know soon enough. if he's coming id move toward him and give a very soft mew or 2 throwing the call and wait for him to come looking. If he stays put calling me to him I'd try to quickly but cautiously get as close as terrain will allow giving another whiney pleading cow sound again throwing the call.hopefully he's on his way this time and with my arrow nocked just waiting to stop him with a nervous grunt for the shot.

If I have the luxury of time I may sit water for a couple days and the bedding to feeding trail for a couple days if I didn't end up spooking the elk.

[stringunner]

Seeing that Swede didn't chime in yet to Elkduds questions and for the sake of keeping the conversation going, here are some thoughts to answer Elkduds questions:

What phase is the moon, what time did it set? Don't really hunt the moon phases as I am not convinced that it really impacts elk behavior other than perhaps bedding earlier in the morning and getting up to move around perhaps mid afternoon or earlier in the evening (I THINK Swede would say something similar having read some of his past posts on the subject). Legal light to shoot was around 6:20 a.m.

Were they bugling in the night, possibly from the clearcut or ridge? No bugles are being heard

I'm late leaving the truck, wanted to be on the canyon rim well before it got light. I agree in wanting to be on the canyon rim well before light, but this depends on how you plan to hunt this scenario

Which side of the creek canyon is most north-facing? The side w the bench, or the side across the creek? Interestingly enough, the side across the creek, though because of terrain and such there good shaded spots this side of the canyon as well.

Is there another feeding area than the old clear cut? Yes, feeding areas are prevalent in this area

Game trails from clear cut across ridge to bench? Yes

Any other water than the creeks/springs in the canyon? Wet or dry year? The creek and the springs Swede mentions are the primary water for this side of the ridge

Expected to storm after warm day today, or stay fair? Expected to stay fair and in the 70's and low 80's.

Hope those answers help keep the conversation going. Hopefully Swede has more to add that I didn't.

[Swede]

To be honest I thought the questions were tongue in cheek and ignored them. If the moon phase, or date, or whatever would change your answer, just state your added perimeters and go from there. We have a couple of excellent answers already. I am wondering what some other hunters might come up with.

[stringunner]

Agreed Swede. The answers I gave Elkduds really only work for specific days as conditions throughout the season can change on a dime. Hopefully Elkduds will chime in again with an idea for how to hunt it. Cnelk and Trophyhill have provided some great answers.

[Elkduds]

Thanks for answering my questions. I like the earlier answers, I was thinking what else I would consider if I were there. I asked RE moon phase primarily b/c the hot daytime temps can shift elk activity to more nocturnal/cooler (I think. In 40 years I have never hunted elk when it was 70 degrees or warmer). So if the moon is bright all night I would expect elk activity to be greater @ night and midday. More importantly, I can go in earlier and come out later under bright moon. I'm aware of the "call-shy factor," and I am hunting alone, so I want elk coming in to me while I'm silent, then I call a little as situation dictates. Game trails coming into bedding cover on/near the bench, early and late. Water holes in the afternoon. If there are hunters calling along the creek, that pressure may help me if I stay above it. I want to check out the coolest, most north-facing thermal cover with these hot temps, so I need to get to the slope on the far side of the creek at some point.

[Swede]

Elkduds: Thanks for your post. I was not ignoring you. It is obvious that you think about these things much more than I do.
Over the years I have found places that hold elk, and places they just go through. Sometimes the difference is due to factors I cannot see immediately such as cattle or human use. Sometimes I see places I am confident will not have elk, but when I find a place that is getting elk use, I don't question it. I try to just take advantage of the situation.
For those that may not be familiar with elk activity, they move around and travel to water even midday when it is hot. I suppose they are just like us. When they become thirsty, they go for a drink. Personally I would rather hunt elk when it is 90*F out than when it is 40*F. When it is hot the elk get up and move frequently to stay out of the sun. They go for water. People have asked how often do elk go for water. The answer is simple. As often as they get thirsty. When will they travel to water? When they get thirsty. That said, the golden hour for elk to water is the last one of daylight.
I do not want to answer my own question, but I will give you a hint. Watch those secluded springs in the timber, or main trails leading to them, on this rather hot day. Note: I tried to give just a hint about what strategy when I commented in the opening post, if you mess up, the elk will be gone until next year. This is a high pressure hunting area. The elk won't tolerate much human activity. Also, there is not just one right answer, but there are plenty of wrong ones too.

[Still Hunter]

Another reason I switched to the muzzy season Swede. Much warmer than the rifle seasons. Warm elk are thirsty elk. Thirsty elk are moving elk.

Thick timber with creeks running though them are what I look for.

[Elkduds]

I hunted archery during the '80s, muzzle and rifle since then, all in CO, almost all above 10K elev. Sept. could be sunny, monsoon rainy or wet snow for a day or so. Temps maybe 60s, never much into the 70s. What have I missed?

Elk have thick hides and massive, hot bodies. 80 degree temps would really drive them to hide and stay cool as stated above, right? Seems like that would activate them to feed/water @ night when cooler, and they would hide in shade near water during daylight, with midday feeding in or near bedding cover. Or go way up in elevation, if that is available. Am I understanding how elk cope in warmer climates?

I can remember scouting during warm August. We watched a herd of 20 cows/calves stroll 200 yards from aspens to a 1/2 acre stock pond in a sage flat. It was right at sunset. The elk talked, splashed and played in the water for half an hour while we watched from behind a big sagebrush, 50 yards away. That is the golden hour you mentioned? We called it that while fishing on Grand Mesa, the lakes there came to life with trout hitting on the surface, as the sun set.

[Still Hunter]

I hunt during the day when they're bedded down. I watch them get up, and go drink from a creek. That's what i'm waiting for. I won't shoot anything bedded down. I need them moving.

The 2nd week in Sept can be pretty warm during the day. Even at 11,000ft.

[Swede]

Elkduds: For me that golden hour for hunting is the last hour of daylight. It is by far the best for the way I hunt. I can not say how many time though, that I have slipped back to my stand, after leaving to go to camp for lunch and a mid day break, that I have returned early-mid afternoon and found the elk were there or had come an gone. I like to get out of my stand for lunch and a break, but in doing so I miss some elk. I think it was you that mentioned above, that you would not want to still be at your vehicle at dawn. As a tree stand hunter, I find the first hour to be nothing special. I go in early just to maximize my opportunities. Elk can come in to water at any time. Early morning is no better than 1:00 PM.

[Mikeha33]

What is the elevation? Can the elk go high to get cooler temps and avoid pressure?

[Swede]

Mike: Where we have this situation the elevation is under 7,000 feet on Oregon's east side. Shade is the only relief they can get from the heat. If you bust these elk out, they will go to the ranch and hide behind "NO HUNTING" signs. The elk will go there and roll in the dust and laugh at you, knowing just how miserable they have made you, and how safe they are. The big boys will strut around and put their antlers on full display, then give you a very toothy grin.

[stringunner]

Not wanting to see this one go to the second page before getting to tell about ONE example of how a bull in this scenario was killed, I will post....I hope Swede will also post about past success he has had in this area.

To set the scene and provide an answer as to why both Swede and I were chiming in...this is an area, the same ridge line and springs that both Swede and I have been hunting for several years without ever running into each other, I still don't know how this is possible but it is the truth. To be honest, Swede has been on this ridge much longer than I, 20+ years, where I have been hunting this spot for only the past 6-7. Up until this year, my dad, hunting partner and I have been "running and gunning" this ridge. Starting from one side (east) and working our way west. Or vice versa depending on the elk sign. It is accessible from multiple sides. We have had success in calling in multiple elk and even harvesting a few. But more times than not, we would bust them out, to not ever see them again for the season. This would happen because of our lack of knowledge of how best to access the area, not taking the appropriate time to learn the contours of the ridge line, really sitting back and patterning the elk and their behavior in this particular spot and sometimes even when we were doing it all "right" luck just wasn't on our side. After sitting on the knowledge of one of the springs in the bedding area for the past 4 years, I decided to put a treestand up this year in this spot, unknowingly that Swede also hunts the springs in this area.

Opening day this past year I was in my stand well before daylight, like Elkduds mentioned, I wanted to be up on the canyon rim well before daylight. The reason for this is simple, I knew I would be skirting the bedding area to get to my stand and though I knew my scent would potentially still be lingering, I didn't want to run into the elk while getting into my stand. This is stand I planned to sit from sunup till sundown. 13-14 hours, particularly because of my knowledge that the elk will move into the area to bed and I didn't want to risk busting them out leaving or coming back in during mid day. It is also an area that is thick enough that unless you hear the elk move in, they can come in and be bedded within 100 yards of you and you may never know they are there.

Opening morning I was in my stand all of 15 minutes when a raghorn 4-5 point bull came walking into the water hole, he came in and stopped less than 20 yards from the tree I was sitting in then quickly turned and spun away. I didn't have a shot opportunity but was really excited nonetheless. Upon coming out that evening I ran into Swede for the first time as we were both stopped to make a phone call home from a point on the mountain where cell reception is available. He asked if I was sitting the stand on the spring, I said I was, he mentioned he was also sitting a stand in very close proximity to me that I was unaware was there. The following is a testament to Swede and his high moral compass... rather than berating me for hunting a spot that he has hunted for many years, he began telling me things about the area in relation to treestand hunting that I had not thought of before, i.e. where to park and how best to approach our stands with the least possibility of disturbing the elk in the area. Had I not ran into him that evening, and had he not been willing to share his knowledge I do not believe I would have harvested the bull I did just 3 days later. Where I was parking and walking, was a main travel route of the elk to this particularly bedding area, he knew this based on years of observation and experience in the area. Something I never really picked up on during the years we were running and gunning this ridge. He said park down by the edge of the clear cut, walk strait up and over the ridge and drop down directly to the stand as opposed to the manner I was accessing that stand. He said you still have a chance of blowing elk but your chances are less likely as your scent will stay a "more" direct line of travel to and from your stand as OPPOSED to ACROSS the top of the ridge. Though I don't consider myself a "newbie" nor an "expert" elk killer, but something I should have thought about when making my plans to hunt this spot from a treestand.

After 3 more days of sitting the stand for 13-14 hours each day I shot the bull in the picture below. The not so funny part about this story is that same day Swede was sitting the stand very close to mine. We met each other on the ridge top as I was packing the head and antlers to my truck. He shook my hand, congratulated me and said he was happy he saw me as he was now going to go hunt a different stand as we both figured the area was too disturbed to hunt for the remainder of the day. Meeting back up with him at his camp a few days later, he informed me that that very day about 4 hours later he had a picture of a nice bull at the water he would have been sitting had we not ran into each other. Dang the luck anyway. Could have been two bulls on the same day shot at less than 300 yards apart.

As many of you posted, approaching this spot can be tricky, anytime you are hunting the "bedding" areas it calls for extreme caution and patience. Some times getting close and using calls are the key (as we have used in this spot to some success) and other times getting in position to ambush while the elk are coming to water or to the bedding areas is key (as Swede has mastered in this spot). The key to this area though above all else and perhaps is becoming a common theme among these scenario threads, is knowledge of the area and the elk patterns therein. This is what Swede shared with me and thus lead to my taking of this bull. Swede and I have conversed several times via email and the phone since this past season and have made plans on how better to hunt these areas in the future, both on how to be successful in each of our camps but also in how to be mindful of each others "spots" and locations.

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IMG_1021_1.jpg (345.52 KiB) Viewed 7722 times

[Swede]

I don't have much to add to what Jeremy wrote. I have been astounded at how much he has learned about the whole area. It is obvious to him and should be to anyone that hunts, that knowledge of an area is extremely valuable. It is no coincidence that his research has led him to the exact same places I have focused on. He sees where the elk are hanging out, traveling and watering. He set his stand in a tree 10 feet from where I had been setting up mine. I had chosen a pine tree as they are less pitchy. I don't like White fir for that reason.
I know that there are a lot of similarities between what many experienced elk hunters on this site have observed. It should be that way, even though we debate minor differences. After all we have not had all of the exact same experiences either. We are hunting the same creatures. Idaho, Wyoming, New Mexico, etc., elk are the same and the way to hunt them will have many points in common.
Jeremy and I have arrived at many or the same points as he has hunted the area I have, and we are both using tree stands. That stands to reason. What I have not figured out is how he got the biggest bull. That does not stand to reason, but has happened several times with people I hunt with. I think next season I am going to ask him to reveal his secret. lol

[Elkduds]

Fine bull! What a grand conclusion to this interesting thread. Sounds like 2 elkheads are better than one! Congratulations to you both. Thanks for sharing your success and answering my questions, I learned a lot from this discussion.

[stringunner]

Elkduds, wroteIf there are hunters calling along the creek, that pressure may help me if I stay above it. I want to check out the coolest, most north-facing thermal cover with these hot temps, so I need to get to the slope on the far side of the creek at some point.

You make two very good points here that are right on. The hunting pressure from the bottom along the creek and trail do keep the elk further up, thus the reason we are approaching them from the top, but this does get tricky when thinking about the thermals in the morning moving down. We have actually called hunters in all the way from the bottom, I felt bad for a few of them as the terrain is very steep here in this spot.

And your point about checking out the north facing slope on the far side of the creek is on my to-do-list this year, and a conversation both Swede and I have been having. He knows the far side already, I'm hoping to swap some info, perhaps about a tip on killing the biggest bull (LOL) for some good spots to check out on the north facing slope on the other side.