Elk or Hunter?

[Elkonthebrain]

What are the biggest indicators that the elk sounds you hear are coming from a hunter and not an elk.

[JJ Overkill]

repetitiveness, if its the same bugle with the same number of chuckles/ grunts every time it makes me wonder. I will give a location bugle. the response is what im looking for. if its the same bugle I already heard than something is up.

[Swede]

Number one for me is location. If it is coming from a road, trail or other place frequented by hunters it is 90% of the time a person. Almost as often it is obvious by the timing sequence. They call, move, call again and continue with that routine.

[WapitiTalk1]

Location is huge but timing and tone are important also. Most' hunters cannot fool my ears but sometimes elk can There are some elk that plain sound lousy; back to location consideration.

[>>>---WW---->]

#1 would be not sounding like an elk in the first place (aka: Hoochie Mama). Or, responding with an out of place call. (making the wrong sounds)

And #2 would probably be answering my locator bugle or cow/calf sounds too quickly. Very seldom will an elk answer as soon as you make your call. But hunters will.

And there is such a thing as sounding just tooooooooo dang good. Contest buglers can make some awesome sounds. But when have you ever heard a bull do all that fancy stuff in the tall timber? Not very often I'll bet.

[Swede]

And there is such a thing as sounding just tooooooooo dang good. Contest buglers can make some awesome sounds. But when have you ever heard a bull do all that fancy stuff in the tall timber? Not very often I'll bet.

You must be hunting in a totally different environment than I do. I don't believe some of the hunters I hear know which end of the call to put next to, or in their mouth, or whether to blow or suck. lol

[Indian Summer]

NEVER assume a crappy sounding call is NOT an elk. I'd think twice about a giant herd bull bugle before I doubted one that sounded like they "caller" needed to practice.

For me... location.

Why does everyone talk dirt on Hoochie Mamas? I think because they are too easy to use. I'll give you this: They all sound different. If you are thinking of buying one tear the packages open and try them and you'll see. Some you have to push too fast to get them to work. Those ones just squeak. The ones that work when you squeeze slowly are a different story. Get the right one and it sounds like a cow call if you ask me. I've had hunters call in herd bulls with them. If there's one downside..... in areas with lots of hunters there are too many of them being used so it may raise suspicion. One time I lost one. The very next day I found one and NO it wasn't the same one! lol

[Bullnuts]

A real bull will cover a crap load of distance in a hurry. A bull that is moving back and forth, closer and farther is the real deal. A caller that doesn't move at all is usually a hunter, but I always like to sneak in to make sure because nothing is ever absolute.

[cnelk]

but I always like to sneak in to make sure because nothing is ever absolute.

^^^^^^^ This is best strategy...
There is a chance to get burned, but not always.

[Still Hunter]

Two reasons.

It's really rare they'll be a hunter where I am.

I never believe it's an elk until I see it.

[stringunner]

+2 Bullnuts.

Sometimes the worst sounding bugles come from the bull. Some sounds just do not sound natural, like someone learning how to bugle, but spikes just getting started don't all sound "natural" either.

Location is important as well though not always the rule. I shot a bull in 2010 that was literally held up a in thicket not more than 75 yards off a main road bugling his head off. During our pursuit, three different trucks drove by and he would shut up till the sounds of the trucks had faded then start right back up again. It was a great pack out!

So as Bullnuts said, "I always like to sneak in to make sure because nothing is ever absolute."

[flystrait]

I agree with RJ on this one it's tone and the volume in which the tone comes out with. I have heard what I thought was a crappy sounding bugles but the volume was still there even from distance. I have had them come right over the top of locations bugles as well when we are close and did not know it. I have heard the same bull bugle the exact same way before as well and it was a bull. I have had bulls respond right from a road before as well. So I beleive the only way to tell is tone and volume IMO.

[WapitiTalk1]

I called two hunters in from across a canyon the year before last in a Washington wilderness area. Why? Because they had the nerve to hunt several miles back in and up where I was hunting/camping From their first call, I knew they were hunters... unrealistic bugles (blowing a built in reed/tube call of some sort…poorly), way too much cow chatter, additionally... I saw them moving through several openings. I've had numerous bulls fool me that well, didn't sound that good but a guy's gotta be cautious of these crappy sounding bugles. Many human callers cannot get the tone or volume (as flystrait mentioned) but again, beware... some bull’s just plain sound like a hunter that calls poorly. I've been burned by this before.

Comic relief time (or aptly titled, “what comes around, goes around”)...... I hunted the same WA Wilderness area mentioned above earlier this year with a newer archery elk hunter in tow. After a beast of a morning hike (6ish miles partially on access trails and old, forgotten pack trails, with several miles of some of Washington's finest brush choked hillsides sprinkled in), I stopped and threw out a nice locator bugle. Before I hit my last, highest note... I received a response from a logical place to get an answer (up towards an area we call the burnt timber). What sold me is that answer interrupted my call. This had to be an elk unless a hunter was a diaphragm “quick draw” expert. Bull, right? Not so quick. The “bull” was 3-400 yards above us and across the thick side hill. Off we went to get closer. Didn’t hear anything else until I stopped where I figured we were within 150 yards or so. I set up Duke and started with some sweet cow sounds to try and pin point big stinky. Again, before I was finished with my calls a nasty scream with some trophy chuckles interrupted me. Hmmm, this guy means business and wants to date me… so, time to move closer and introduce myself formally. As we moved slowly up, just by a N to S running timberline, Duke caught movement way above us on a semi open ridge. It was a hunter . He must have thought my calls were pretty decent also and was luring me in. I did what I had to do and gave him the nastiest, filthiest, most disrespectful lip ball bugle with grunts I have in my arsenal. Home boy up above me matched my exact calls and even sounded a bit better. All right, it’s on in China Town you twit! Next, I started with a high raspy scream, dropped down two notes, and then back up to a high note and threw in 7 or 8 rapid, perfect chuckles.. Back at me came the same calls, perhaps just a bit better This is getting serious.. Estrus buzz I thought! He can’t possibly match that! It was like dueling elk calls (Deliverance style) on the mountain. Man, this guy was good! I knew I was beaten when he matched the few turkey calls I can do on my diaphragm, and, he followed his turkey calls up with some pretty impressive coyote sounds. I was beat and slipped back down the hillside and across the creek to camp. Never ran into him again in the remaining days we hunted. Good thing for him, I was gonna challenge him with a bigfoot howl.

Sorry about the thread diversion Elkonthebrain.. Back to our regularly scheduled program

[Elkonthebrain]

Thank you for all the responses.... Sounds like location is a huge consideration, but always investigate cause you just never know.

[Lefty]

Well Ive only heard someone once. The guy was skylined

[Indian Summer]

Two reasons.

It's really rare they'll be a hunter where I am.

I never believe it's an elk until I see it.

Huh... I'm just the opposite, especially if I'm in an area where there's a slim chance of another hunter being.

In line with Phantom's stories: my brother and I called a hunter waaaaay down a steeeep hill in the Blue Mountains in WA. Eventually he was directly between us and I went "psssst" He lowered his bow, looked in my direction and said "my dad said it was another hunter" and looked waaaaay back up the hill where his dad had stayed put. lmao

In Montana two years ago calling a bull that was almost in range but just kept pacing back and forth left to right. This guy sneaks up from behind me and a partner, passes right between us, scares off the damn bull, and never saw us. That time I said real loud "WELL THAT DIDN'T WORK" from 15 feet BEHIND him. He about crapped his pants when he realized what he had just done. Hilarious except for the fact that he ruined the opportunity for us.

[Still Hunter]

Not sure what you're the opposite of?

You always believe it's an elk without seeing it?

[Indian Summer]

Yes! Especially if I'm somewhere that is unlikely to have other hunters. It beats assuming it's a human and walking away from or blowing an opportunity. Elk, like turkeys make tons of different vocalizations. Some, such as glunking, aren't all that common. Most of the places I hunt aren't very pressured so to think hunter until I see the source of the call would more often than not leave me caught off guard. I'd rather have a hunter walk into my setup than have that happen.

Back east where I turkey hunt.... different story. I always think hunter... but I'm still ready if it isn't. Usually the flatlanders overcall big time so it's pretty obvious.

[Still Hunter]

I have to be sure it's an elk, or i'd be shooting a lot of hunters.

[Glacier Country]

Grunts and Chuckles are almost always a dead giveaway! Most guys grunts and chuckles are not up to par and are pretty easy to tell that they are not real. The same old 3 note do do deee bugle and crappy grunts.

#1 would be not sounding like an elk in the first place (aka: Hoochie Mama). Or, responding with an out of place call. (making the wrong sounds)

And #2 would probably be answering my locator bugle or cow/calf sounds too quickly. Very seldom will an elk answer as soon as you make your call. But hunters will.

And there is such a thing as sounding just tooooooooo dang good. Contest buglers can make some awesome sounds. But when have you ever heard a bull do all that fancy stuff in the tall timber? Not very often I'll bet.

WW I will take that bet! ... first,there is no such thing as sounding too good. Yes they can and do answer fast. Most bulls that answer my location bugle answer in the first 10 seconds. Yes I have heard elk do all that "fancy" stuff that is exactly
Why I can do it. To mimic real elk. How about some audio proof? This bull answers a Contest bugle in 1 second.I would almost say that he mimics my bugle. Turn up the volume.

[ElkNut1]

A few indicators for us are sound quality, predictable repetitiveness generally means hunter, how fast we were responded to if we called first, a hunter would have to be ready awfully quick to respond to a call in 5 seconds or so, this generally means its an elk with a quick response back. Is more than one elk calling back, this generally means the real thing. Are there hunters in the area? Most bulls we have respond to our calling is done within seconds, many times we are cut off, that is the bull we are looking for! (grin) There's other characteristics to look for that separate elk from a human but these pop into mind first!

ElkNut1

[Still Hunter]

A few indicators for us are sound quality, predictable repetitiveness generally means hunter, how fast we were responded to if we called first, a hunter would have to be ready awfully quick to respond to a call in 5 seconds or so, this generally means its an elk with a quick response back. Is more than one elk calling back, this generally means the real thing. Are there hunters in the area? Most bulls we have respond to our calling is done within seconds, many times we are cut off, that is the bull we are looking for! (grin) There's other characteristics to look for that separate elk from a human but these pop into mind first!

ElkNut1

Have you been fooled? Have you ever sworn it was an elk, and turned out to be a hunter, or vice versa?

[ElkNut1]

Pete, Ha Ha! Absolutely!! (big grin) How do you think we all learn, I've made the same mistakes as everyone here but after so many years of studying & hunting elk those times are now few & far in-between. I'm sure I'll be fooled again too but that's hunting, I look forward to it! Thanks!

ElkNut1

[Still Hunter]

Pete, Ha Ha! Absolutely!! (big grin) How do you think we all learn, I've made the same mistakes as everyone here but after so many years of studying & hunting elk those times are now few & far in-between. I'm sure I'll be fooled again too but that's hunting, I look forward to it! Thanks!

ElkNut1

That was my point when I said I never believe it's an elk until I see it. You're way more experienced than I am about calling in elk. I've watched your videos on Youtube. I'm the complete opposite of you, and don't call at all. If a hunter is good enough you sound like a real elk. He'll fool me easily.

Now that I know that you can be fooled occasionally. I'll definitely be sticking to my rule of seeing the elk before I believe it's one.

Thanks.

[ElkNut1]

Certainly hunt the way that helps you to be the most comfortable. In time as you are in more encounters with vocal elk you will develop an ear for the real thing & what's an impostor, you will see a trend! (grin) The more secluded the area hunted the more the probability it's the real thing. The more hunting pressure in the area hunted the more cautious one must be.

The advice above by many is very good in what to look for so time is not wasted in either direction. Since you do not call you don't have the luxury of responding elk, this can handicap a situation. Give it time & you will be able to tell the two apart for the most part.

I will add that its the little guy sounds than can fool you the most with their off note squeals & bugles sometimes it's a good bull making them too but rare. Rarely is a big bull going to have you feel it's a hunter, there's usually no doubt about it with them! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Still Hunter]

You probably haven't read my posts in the past. I've hunted elk every year in Colorado since 1954. I'd like to think I can tell the difference, but I only hunt remote areas, and seldom run into hunters. So, I don't get the experience someone else might get in high pressured areas.

I do my best, but we're never too old to learn.

[ElkNut1]

Pete, I did read your above posts, I don't see your age or level of experience in them? I'm also going to take a guess here & say most of your elk hunting is done with a rifle or at least it used to be? It's very common for rooted rifle hunters not to do much calling, this seems to carry over into their bowhunting as well. It's not an issue but I've seen many cases of it. Rifle hunters in general do not need elk close so they do not put a lot of stock into what they're hearing, they just tag a bugle as a bull over there.

As a sidenote think of how many bulls you're heard over the years, probably countless? (grin) Now think of how many times you were actually fooled & it was a hunter! I'll bet the real thing far out weighs the hunters bugle! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Still Hunter]

I meant in past threads. Actually, i have hunted most of my life with a rifle until switching to a muzzleloader. Not quite what you think though. As you can see by the name I took. I'm a 100% still hunter in timber. My gun was a Winchester 95 in 30-30 with iron sights. Most of my shots have been in bow range. With 100yds being my longest shot ever. Most shots are done very fast, and a lot of them are running shots which I practice a lot.

I'm sure using calls would have helped at times, but my dad didn't use them, so I was taught to not use one. I've been thinking about it lately though. maybe you can chime in on the thread I just started?