Which rifle?

[Madison COunty]

I am new to elk hunting and have never done it before. I just joined this site, ordered the book North American elk ecology and management. My question is I do not own a rifle yet and was looking at purchasing one but what caliber would you recommend? Some people have told me 30-06 others said 300 mag is best. I know that there are a lot of variables and the most important things are one your comfortable with and can shoot well.

Its very hard to choose one on a showroom floor and not carrying it around for a while outside or shooting it. I was looking at a Browning x bolt 300 mag with a synthetic stock. It felt very comfortable holding it and I have read good reviews on the x bolts. Does anyone have any experience with these guns?

[cnelk]

Got few questions for you:

Other than elk, what will you use the rifle for?
Do you like long range shooting opportunities? Or hunting terrain with shorter shots? [<200yds ]
What would be your tolerance of recoil?
Whats your budget?

When I rifle hunt elk, I use a .340 Weatherby for elk.
I have used 30-06 and .270s also

[cnelk]

I would like to add something

If it were me, I would look into a nice muzzleloader for the reasons below:

You can hunt the rut time
There are less people than rifle seasons
The weather is generally nicer
Muzzleloaders are a lot of fun

[Madison COunty]

I would mainly be using this just for elk hunting. I don't know how far I would be shooting maybe 200 yards or less? Not sure. As fat as recoil I don't think it would bother me too much, I shoot slugs during deer season and I'm fine. Budget I am open to, possibly around $1200 for gun and scope?

I'm not sure that's why I'm looking for advice and suggestions from guys here that hunt with rifles. Thanks!

[cnelk]

Well, I hunt elk with both rifles and bows.

Just go get a 300 Win Mag, put a Nikon scope and start shooting

Here is one on Gunbroker that will leave you a few $$$ leftover from your budget - all set up

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =382946817

[Madison COunty]

Dude are you kidding me? That gun is from some pawn shop (Georgia Dawg Pawn) and who knows how well it was taken care of or wasn't. Thanks but I will keep looking, still looking at my options. That was also a rough number for budget I said as I wouldn't mind sending $1500-2000 if it was worth it. Thanks!

[Swede]

Madison Co. cnelk is right. If I had any doubts, I would just verify that the dealer is reputable. I am not suggesting you buy anything. It is your money. I just want to put your mind at ease in case you were concerned about that gun being up to the job you intend to use it on.

[Madison COunty]

Swede I know that gun would put down a elk no problem.

[cnelk]

For others that may be wondering what rifle is a 'good elk gun'
There are many, many calibers that are quite capable.
Probably not worth the time to go into each and every one.

But I would like to expound on my earlier post

Other than elk, what will you use the rifle for?

With the current issue of lack ammunition and reloading supplies, it would be in a hunter's best interest to think about the best way to get the most out a rifle. Is the caliber ammo readily available? I have noticed that the most popular elk cartridges are now back on the shelves - some belted, some non-belted. [270/30-06/300WM/7mm Mag]
This is a good sign as just one year ago, the shelves were bare.
The availability of ammo is important as the rifles need to be shot - alot.
It wont do much good to have a rifle that ammo is hard to find.
And if its hard to find, its going to be expensive
If a hunter is going to use the rifle for other game, finding a good 'all around' load is the next thought.
If there is a variation in loads for different game, then the reloading factor kicks in.
And if you think ammo is hard to find, try buying powder and primers these days
But the reloading part should probably be discussed on another thread.


Do you like long range shooting opportunities? Or hunting terrain with shorter shots? [<200yds ]

Some people like shooting long range. This is very unique.
It takes wide open terrain, a steady rest, steady breathing, knowing windage, very good optics, a high dollar trigger, and many, many rounds at the shooting range getting to know your ballistics.
Some people like the <200yd hunting. It typically employs a thicker terrain. Some like a heavier bullet as they are not as concerned with trajectory as the long range shooter. Shorter shots for elk hunting mean you are setting up for an ambush [edge of a meadow] or still hunting in the timber.

What would be your tolerance of recoil?

This should not be over-looked. It is known that recoil is not felt much when shooting at game, but to make that shot, hunters need to shoot many shots through their rifle and if the recoil becomes a factor, the shooting ability is compromised. Muzzle brakes can be installed to dampen recoil, but the trade-off for that is muzzle blast. Make your shooting time as enjoyable as you can.
There are calibers that have a vicious recoil. My .340 Weatherby Magnum Alaskan Mark V is one of them. It has an AccuBrake, and even with that on, the recoil is comparable to a 7mm Mag- which is no slouch. To shoot it without the AccuBrake is not recommended. I only shoot 225gr out of my 340 and I can say that it is the heaviest recoiling rifle I own, a 10lb scoped rifle. The 340 Weatherby Magnum when loaded with 225 grain bullets produces recoil that is very substantial and this cartridge is only recommended to those who have shot other big bore caliber Magnum rifles and found that they could deal with severe recoil. The 340 Weatherby Magnum is very powerful, loaded with a 225 grain bullet and the velocity topping out at 3,000 feet per second it will deliver a little over 1 ton (2,000 Foot Pounds) of energy at the 500 yard mark.
The 300 Win Mag averages about 3500 ft lbs of pressure, the 338 Win Mag about 3800 ft lbs of pressure, and the 340 Wby Mag has about 4600 ft lbs of pressure
[I am only giving the 340 Weatherby specifics for recoil information and comparison use only]


Whats your budget?

This will obviously differ from person to person.
But it is not uncommon to see good elk caliber weapons that sell for $600-$800 - all set up.
Of course with all of variations available [calibers/optics/triggers/stocks] the price can definitely go up in a big hurry

I hope this information has been helpful.

[ElkNut1]

The 30/06 is a very versatile rifle & caliber, it will handle your needs for Elk & Deer hunting no problem & the shells are amongst the easiest to get in Sporting Goods stores or reload your own. A good elk round/bullet is as important as a good rifle, look for 165grn to 180 grn bullet with quality expansion & you'll be well on your way! Choose the rifle that fits you best & you'll have confidence in it. For a scope settle on a 4-16X44 or 50mm with BDC Reticle, they are simple to shoot in & use. This scope will allow you to shoot quickly if needed at a running animal with it on 4X or reach out with a good rest such as on a pack with higher magnification when a situation allows for it. A setup as that will be around a 1000 dollar bill for both rifle & scope. A really nice scope to consider is a Vortex Viper HS 4-16X44 BDC. Here's a link with a photo. You can save quite a bit off the shown msrp price there!
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vor ... oa-reticle

ElkNut1

[Indian Summer]

Two keywords: Versatility/lightweight

Not only are synthetic stocks lighter but obviously more resistant to the elements. They don't absorb moisture and therefore will never warp. Many gun manufacturers are making guns lighter than their standard models but as with anything you'll pay a bit more for the special models. I did.

One thing worth mentioning: I'd rather have an average priced gun with the best scope I can afford than a high dollar or even custom rifle with an average scope. Most gunmakers are producing quality firearms but there are some damn cheap scopes on the market and accuracy is surely only as good as your scope. Especially since every elk hunter takes a tumble here or there at some point. For that reason I would also recommend Talley one piece scope mounts.

Versatility really comes into play with your choice of scope. Fortunately with variable power scopes you should be able to select one that suits your needs. In thick stuff an average of 4 power is usually pretty good making the oh so common 3-9 power a great pick. But a 4-12 will be a better choice in my opinion because elk country is always big country and who knows right.... that 300 yard shot could be in your future for sure. Mine is what most would consider extreme and heck yeah there are times when I think... I might be better served if I had the option to drop to 4 power but... my Leupold 6-20 power has never failed me and I've killed bulls at 60 yards with it no problem. On a 300, or even a mere 200 yard shot cranking it up is a dream and will definitely help with shot placement. I sight it in at 100 yard using 20 power which is where the term "driving tacks" comes from. You just don't drive tacks with a low power scope. Lots of folks who don't dare take a shot to or beyond 300 yards would feel differently if they had a scope made for the job. The right tool for any job is paramount right? I'm not familiar with the options Vortex offers but they make a great product and you'll definitely want to look into them. Can't go wrong with Leupold's warranty either. Unconditional and lifetime and they don't care if you were the original owner(no receipt or prior registration needed) or even if you found it in a creek! Leupold offers a 3.5 to 10 as well as a 4.5 to 14 power which I think are GREAT choices. 4.5 to 15 will cover all the bases for most of us including timber hunters and open country guys and gals. As far as the objective lense... no pun intended when I say the difference between a 40 mil and a 50 mil objective is like night and day. A 50 mm objective will add several precious minutes of shooting time when it really counts... early and late in the day. The downside is a bit of added size and weight so compare those if you want. In my book a 50 mil is worth carrying and for an elk rifle I'd never consider anything else.... ok, maybe 56!

Obviously caliber is a big part of your question. Again... versatility is the word. Of the bazillion clients I've had in camp over the years there's no question that the two most popular guns are 30-.06 and 300 Win Mag. A big reason the .06 makes that list is because it is (or was I should say)certainly THE most popular caliber for deer hunting and many elk hunters, especially new ones, simply use what they have. Bullet choice is really important with that caliber so do your homework if considering going that route. But since you said it's an elk only gun.... I think you can do better. We can shoot short ranges with a larger caliber but not longer shots with short range capability right? Right! There are folks who can shoot 300 yards with that 30-.06 for sure but they are a minority. Meanwhile 300 yards is a chip shot for a .300 Win mag or the awesome 7mm Remington Magnum. The 7 rem mag has less recoil than the .300 if you care. But with the addition of a muzzle brake recoil in both is irrelevant to me. A brake makes a HUGE difference with any gun but especially with a lighter weight one where the weight of the firearm itself doesn't absorb as much recoil. You can always add that later if you want. I've killed plenty of elk with my 7 rem mag as well as caribou. I love it. Availability of ammo is pretty equal for both. A good rule of thumb these days is don't wait until the last minute to buy ammo and when you do buy a bunch. Not only will you have it when you need it but by doing that you'll have ammunition from the same lot which will shoot more consistently than buying different lots... or worse, different brands. I'm a HUGE fan of Remington firearms but don't let that steer you I suppose. It's much like the Chevy/Ford scenario and there are others out there worth looking at.... I guess. One thing for sure is I'll always opt for American made products and in my humble opinion Browning isn't what it used to be since they went overseas.

Last... don't buy "too much" gun. by that I mean a giant caliber such as a .300 Ultra mag. That's what I shoot with a Leupold Mark 4 LRT 6-20 by 50mm(long range tactical) but that's like driving a Ferrari and not necessary or even practical for most people. When I find the time I'll tap into it's capabilities and be able to shoot to 1000 yards with it consistently. But the point I was making is it kicks like a dang mule! Not bad with a top of the line muzzle brake but surely not for everyone... or any kids or women that's for sure! I've had guys with an over abundance of testosterone bring them elk hunting... only to miss because they literally closed their eyes a millisecond before pulling the trigger because they anticipated the recoil. Not good! I have mine also because I can use it for other major adventures if and when I'm fortunate enough to go on them such as moose (when I don't want them to wade out to 5 feet of water before dropping), griz, or dangerous game in Africa.

Last.... I would suggest for ANY and every gun hunter to invest in a Lead Sled gun rest. Priceless! It will enable you to shoot all day long if you want with ANY caliber including that .300 Ultra mag ensuring that you are sighted in absolutely perfectly and.... you'll be comfortable with your gun and the results. Confidence is always a good feeling and in reality does have an effect on accuracy. If you have kids or friends who shoot they will appreciate it too.... big time. Back here in Pa we use a lot of 12 gauge shotguns with slugs. They kick like hell and the Lead Sled is all but necessary to set them up. Guys who don't use them often quit shooting saying "that's good enough" That translates to: If I had a Lead Sled I'd stick around until it was right! Also the last point worth making on the Sled is... you'll get the job done with way less ammo so in a way it pays for itself in the long run.

In short... which isn't my forte The Remington Model 700 is likely the most popular gun in this country and for good reason. Tried and tested over and over for many years under many conditions on many continents. If you top a Remington model 700 in .300 Win Mag or 7mm rem Mag with a Leupold V3 in 4.5-14 by 50mm.... you will NEVER regret it I guarantee that. if you did for any reason you could sell that setup in a heartbeat. You wont. Check on that Votex scope I might add.

Good luck my friend! Let us know what you decide or if you have any other questions.

[Elkduds]

Weight of rifle/scope combo is am important consideration. For many years I carried a Mark X (Mauser bolt action) in 7mm Rem. Mag, with 3x9 Redfield, it weighed a little over 9 lb. I tend to cover 6-10 miles a day, and gain lots of elevation @ high altitude in CO. I hunt with it when I expect shots well over 200 yards. Now I mostly hunt with a bolt action Stevens .270 with synthetic stock, Leupold 2.5x8 glass, weighs a bit more than 6 lb. I barely notice it on my shoulder with neoprene sling, even at the end of 5 or 6 days. Partition and monolithic bullets yield magnum-grade penetration on elk in nonmagnum calibers, with less noise and recoil. It goes without saying that shot placement is paramount, regardless of caliber. Almost everyone shoots more accurately when recoil is less. For me, the .270 hunts better than the heavy old 7 mag.

[Lefty]

Lots of good info

Just my opinion
Some will depend on how you like to hunt and where.
If your covering ground I would use a 30 cal or less, .308, 30-06, 270, 7MM, My Father-in law has killed over 100 mulies and 21 bulls. Most were killed with a 7MM and a .264
If only an elk ( bear) gun I would look at a .338 with a 220 gn

[Indian Summer]

with neoprene sling,

Yep, priceless! They are like shock absorbers. Butler Creek makes a nice one.

[Harmy]

I would echo what Joe says. Optics first, firearm secondary but they have to be matched.

My primary firearm which has killed the vast majority of big game is a Rem 700 30-06 with a leupold 4- 10 that exactly matches the reticle cross hatches with my reloads out to 500 yards. I also use a Rem 700 in .300 ultra mag with a Nightforce scope but no muzzle brake. Ouch... It does shoot well and the scope is amazing. I have only taken one elk with that gun as long range is rare where I hunt. This last season I hunted mostly thick timber and used a .450 bushmaster with a 1-4X Trijcon. Great to 200 yards but really impossible beyond that. I also use a muzzleloader and have taken several elk with it including my second bull 2 years ago. The problem I have with the muzzleloader is that I have yet to find decent 1x only optics as I can't see up close and so open sites are about impossible for me.

[Indian Summer]

I also use a Rem 700 in .300 ultra mag with a Nightforce scope

Sweet setup!

but no muzzle brake. Ouch...

Not so sweet.

[Madison COunty]

Harmy- It sounds like you have some very nice guns. Have you ever had a time hunting elk when the 30-06 didn't have enough power or put the animal down? It seems like they are a very popular gun for a lot of people is the reason I'm asking. I'm still trying to decide what my first elk rifle is going to be

[Indian Summer]

Harmy- It sounds like you have some very nice guns. Have you ever had a time hunting elk when the 30-06 didn't have enough power or put the animal down? It seems like they are a very popular gun for a lot of people is the reason I'm asking. I'm still trying to decide what my first elk rifle is going to be

I know there are TONS of fans of the 30-.06. I'm always interested to hear their input so I'll elaborate on Madison's question.

First, do you guys think a .300 Win Mag could be considered overkill for elk? Very interested to hear takes on that.

Is there anything a 30-.06 can do that a .300 Win mag can't?

Is there anything that a .300 Win Mag can do that a 30-.06 can't?

Max range for each caliber with factory ammo?

Feel free to add anything else worth mentioning if you were going to choose between those two calibers.

[cnelk]

First lets do a little history of each [Wikipedia]

300 Win Mag
The .300 Winchester Magnum was introduced in 1963 by Winchester for use in the Model 70 rifle. The introduction of the .300 Winchester Magnum was not unforeseen; rather, its introduction was anticlimactic. Winchester developed the .300 Winchester Magnum by taking the .338 Winchester Magnum, which was introduced in 1958, and moved the shoulder forward by 0.156 inches and lengthening it by 0.120 inches. This caused the cartridge to have a neck shorter than the diameter of the bullet. There has been some speculation that if the cartridge was released earlier, the dimensions of the cartridge would have matched the .30-338 Winchester wildcat cartridge. Since its introduction the cartridge has remained extremely popular.

30-06 Springfield

The .30-06 Springfield cartridge (pronounced "thirty-aught-six" or "thirty-oh-six"), 7.62×63mm in metric notation and called "30 Gov't 06" by Winchester[3] was introduced to the United States Army in 1906 and later standardized; it remained in use until the early 1970s. The ".30" refers to the caliber of the bullet, and the "06" refers to the year the cartridge was adopted—1906. It replaced the .30-03, 6 mm Lee Navy, and .30-40 Krag cartridges. (The .30-40 Krag is also called the .30 U.S., .30 Army, or .30 Government.) The .30-06 remained the U.S. Army's primary rifle and machine gun cartridge for nearly 50 years before being replaced by the 7.62×51mm NATO (commercial .308 Winchester) and 5.56×45mm NATO, both of which remain in current U.S. and NATO service. It remains a very popular sporting round, with ammunition produced by all major manufacturers.


My answers to your questions:

First, do you guys think a .300 Win Mag could be considered overkill for elk? Very interested to hear takes on that.
NO. It could possibly rank as the best elk caliber ever developed

Is there anything a 30-.06 can do that a .300 Win mag can't?
Hmmmm.... NO. But....Unfair question.
One is an belted magnum and the other is standard case. Apples & Oranges.
Even tho the 300WM is belted, it still measures just a tad longer than the '06 so that means the cartridge can be used in standard length actions.

Is there anything that a .300 Win Mag can do that a 30-.06 can't?
Yes. Performance at longer ranges. It can drive a 180gr bullet faster than an 30-06 can drive a 150gr bullet.
It gives up very little to the 300 Weatherby Magnum.

When I reload for my Winchester Model 70 30-06:
46.5 gr of Varget
180 Hornady SP
My son's elk killing machine

[Elkduds]

One unasked question: of 30-06 and 300 Win Mag, which kills more elk? Yep, the one with 6 in the name, by a mile. Always has, always will.

[Madison COunty]

One unasked question: of 30-06 and 300 Win Mag, which kills more elk? Yep, the one with 6 in the name, by a mile. Always has, always will.

Why does it kill more elk? Do more people just own that kind of gun or has the gun been around longer, more versatile gun for elk hunting, more factory elk worthy bullet choices, more accurate?

[Indian Summer]

Cnelk... just to keep straight... I mentioned factory ammo in both.

Also... to pre-empt elkduds answer to the last question: I'd say both, it's been around longer and therefore more people own it. It's a massively common "first gun" among the massive amount of deer hunters. "More versatile?": No. "more factory elk worthy bullet choices?" Hell no! "More accurate?" Not a valid question on a 100 yard range. Well maintained guns of any caliber are as accurate as the ability of the shooter. At 200 yards and beyond though.... not a chance!

Last... I'd guess there have been more elk shot, wounded, and unrecovered as well with the .06 than with the .300. Win mag. 200+ yard shots are common in elk country and that can be pushing the limits of effective AND accurate range for the .06 with factory ammo. Surely there have been more shot opportunities passed on with it by ethical hunters as well! If I knew I was going to be shooting no further than 150 yards AND since I reload my own ammo I suppose I might consider the .06.. But I could hunt on those terms with more energy too so nah... probably not.

Elkduds... ha! I knew I'd run across a huge fan of the ol .06 since there's one behind every tree but let me ask you simply.... if you were completely new to elk hunting, had no idea what kind of terrain and cover you would be hunting in, and all other factors such as recoil and availability of ammo aside, based purely on ballistics, which would you choose?

Cnelk... thanks for taking the time to put together such an informative post bud! Good stuff.

[Indian Summer]

First, do you guys think a .300 Win Mag could be considered overkill for elk? Very interested to hear takes on that.
NO. It could possibly rank as the best elk caliber ever developed

Probably coulda stopped right there!

[cnelk]

Many years ago [in the 1970s] the 300WM was considered a 'Glorified 30-06'.
This was before reloading really took effect on the wildcat cartridge.

It is somewhat clouded when referring to 'factory ammo' as it is not known the specific powder type and charge.
You are buying 'something' that either was referred by a buddy or the manufacturer.
Then you go to the range, sight it in for about 2.5 inches high at 100yds - hopefully get a 'good enough' group and go hunt.

For those serious rifle shooters, reloading is a fact.
It is comparable to archers that search for their bow's speed and broadhead that performs best in their bow.

Indian Summer is right on saying that the '06 is probably every big game hunters 1st gun [just like the .22 is most hunters 1st small game gun]
It has taken more moose,elk, deer and bear than most calibers will think about getting.

I will ask myself this question:
Brad, if you had the choice to buy 1 of 2 rifles for elk hunting - the price being the same - which one?
The 30-06 or 300WM?

It would be the 30-06 every day of the week.
Yes - I too am a fan of the '06 - kinda like comparing it to your 1st love - something you will never forget

[Indian Summer]

Even if you didn't reload? If I may ask.... why, other than the first love syndrome? Even if you hunted some open stuff? Pretty surprised to hear that after the "best elk caliber ever developed" comment.

[cnelk]

Joe,
Even before I started reloading I shot A LOT.
That is key.
I knew the ballistics of the 'factory ammo'.
I didnt switch brands or bullet weight.

A hunter needs to do some sole searching to determine what rifle is best for them.
The questions I posted earlier in the thread is a good place to start.

[Elkduds]

Indian Summer: ha ha back at ya. Always enjoy and value your posts. Check out the POCO song Indian Summer, it's a keeper.

The main reason more elk are taken w '06 than any other caliber is because there are far more of them being used. I'm not a die-hard fan of any caliber, '06 or otherwise. I'm a fan of accuracy and quick, humane kills.

I shot my 1st elk w dad's model 721 in 30-06, about 1990. Because I needed my own gun I found an old Mark X 7 Rem mag in a pawn shop, refinished the stock, Timney trigger, glass bedded/free floated stock. Handloaded for it but could never get faster than factory ballistics while maintaining accuracy. In my previous post in this thread I discussed my reasons and results in transition to 270, which is maybe half a step down from '06 for elk due to bullet weight limitations. I would have preferred a 280 if I had found an ultralight one w 22" barrel for that reason.

Regarding your points on wounding and accuracy:
Early on, before the great bullet penetrating technology in recent years, the conventional wisdom was magnum for elk, so I got one. In retrospect I would have been just as effective w the '06, because I have never taken a shot over 250 yards. Clint said, "A man's gotta know his limitations."
I have seen and heard of more wounded elk from 300 Mags and up than from '06. I have seen big magnums used for marginal shots as though they were smart bombs, capable of hitting from extreme ranges like they were laser guided. And I see more accuracy, less flinching from shooters with nonmagnum calibers, especially in hunting situations more than off the bench at the range. I'm sure my subjective experience as a guy hunting is much less than yours as outfitter, and I respect informed opinions almost as much as data.

Here is my ideal way for a newbie to select a rifle for elk. Get a 270 or 280, '06, 300 mag, all together at the range, each scoped and loaded for elk. With each, shoot 3 shot groups fast, as though shooting @ wounded game, at 150 or 200 yards if possible, from a field position like sitting. The most accurate one wins, regardless of whether gun is elk-specific or not.

Then just follow Clint's advice. If you doubt your accuracy or weapon's capability, get closer You get to stroll over there to follow up on the shot anyway. Accuracy kills game humanely--my highest priority. Firepower makes noise, especially with muzzlebrake, costs more to shoot, discourages practice and limits accuracy. That's my logic.

[Madison COunty]

Elkduds how does a person get an opportunity to shoot all of the guns you mentioned if he does not know people that have them? I like what you said, that would make the decision ALOT easier

[Elkduds]

C'mon over, I'll put you behind the 270, 7 mag, .54 muzzleloader, etc. I'm right @ the bottom of Cheyenne Mountain in CO Springs. If that isn't practical, here is what I thought while writing the post above: Find a shooting club or gun range near you. Meet the management, tell them what you want to do, ask if they can recommend some members who could help w this. There will probably be 10 guys with every option you would consider lurking in their gun safe or survival bunker. Another idea: Get on Armslist.com free gun classifieds in your area, Rifles section. Find used guns for sale that are similar to what you want, shop them and ask if you can shoot them before buying. You might love one and want it, or you might decide to go new. It would be hard to shoot all options @ one time that way. But, hey, you have at least 6 months to decide, and still have time to dial in and practice w whatever you get. You may know friends or relatives that have calibers you are considering, ask around. Personally I would be happy to take someone to shoot mine if they were deciding like you are, unless they were a d!ck about it, which I'm sure you aren't. You will meet some interesting and experienced people while sampling guns, that's fo sho. Keep us posted, we're starting a pool to bet on what you decide.

[Harmy]

Harmy- It sounds like you have some very nice guns. Have you ever had a time hunting elk when the 30-06 didn't have enough power or put the animal down? It seems like they are a very popular gun for a lot of people is the reason I'm asking. I'm still trying to decide what my first elk rifle is going to be

I am a reloader and have optimized each of these guns to the best of my ability (.06 to less than half MOA, 300 Ultra Mag to about 1+ MOA, 450 BM 2-3 MOA). My .06 is by FAR my most accurate and consistent weapon (Surplus brass, Varget + 180 gr partitions and 175 gr Bergers for the last 4 years). It is also my lightest weapon (about 6.5 lbs). Thus it is my go-to rifle 90% of the time. It was inherited from my step dad who purchased it at Walmart for $400... I replaced all triggers with Timney (including my first rifle - .243 Rem 700).

I have taken game with the .06 to 350 yards but the vast majority are under 100 yards. I once tried a shot at 500 yards and missed and stopped doing that any more (350ish is my limit with the 06 if I have a solid rest and no wind-I feel I could extend this if I practiced even more). My first bull was shot at just over 500 yards with the 300 ultra mag (it was not a 1 shot kill). I have never experienced penetration issues with the 06 on elk with either partitions or bergers. I did have problems taking a bison with the partitions at under 100 yards but I was aiming a bit lower than I should have for a heart shot. This event coupled with my perceived longer range "need" triggered my purchase of the Ultra Mag (I would probably shoot the Ultra out to 700-800 yards given the right conditions). Today I consider the 300 Ultra Mag a foolish expenditure and will very likely sell this gun soon (anyone want to trade for a bow?).

I have never used a 300 Win Mag but have friends who have them. They do not seem to connect and kill very often even though they have plenty of opportunity. I know they do not shoot as much as I do and they do not reload. Those that shoot 270's seem to kill their fair share and again they are not reloaders. The 270s kill elk just fine and I have seen several taken out to 350-400 yards with this caliber.

If I were starting from scratch I would probably select the .06 (or a .270) again as there is so much available information for reloading and supplies are very common (well they used to be anyway-glad I have my own surplus warehouse now...). My main goal now is a sub 6 lb gun fully equipped. Backpack hunting is my main focus now.

My .06 is my preferred rifle due mainly to the confidence I have in shooting this weapon. It always works and always stays accurate (even after having banged the scope quite a few times). During this last season I had the confidence to thread a 3 inch square gap in the aspens at about 100 yards. My only chance of taking this calf was to sever the spine between the front shoulders and hind quarters as she was walking away from me towards the thick pines. I took the shot. I filled my tag. I did not hesitate with this type of shot because I knew I could do it easily and I knew it would drop her instantly, which it did. Granted this was not a clean one shot kill but 45 seconds later the head shot certainly completed the task. The photo below was taken after I removed the hind quarter but you can see the spine shot just above the small blood spot on the ground and in the fur. I have taken several elk and a moose in this same manner (standing and braced against a tree in all cases). I am sure there are many out there who would disagree with my shot choice. My point is that I would not even consider that type of shot with any other weapon I own (even with a solid rest). But with my 06 I would do it again.

[cnelk]

I dont know anyone that carries a 30-06 ever said, "Geez I wish I had a 300WM"
And someone that shoots a 300WM doesnt frown upon the 30-06 shooter.

There is the mutual respect because one knows the other has a bit more thump, and the other knows that one can probably shoot really good

[Swede]

The way I see it is, if I had only one big game rifle, for North American game, it would be the 06. If I could have several rifles, I would not have any 06 in the bunch, because if I have an 06, I don't need the others. BTW: I don't own an 06.

[kevin_t]

I really like my 30-06 and it shoots well. My son does well with his 7 mag once it got a limb saver. I have a friend with a 300 win mag that is not confident with it beyond 200, which in my opinion he would be better of with his 308 that he is confident with. For a mountain hunting rifle, I might choose a 308 due to weight but my 30-06 is fine as well and can have more thump if need be. Honestly within 350 yards the best rifle is the one you shoot well and are confident in. Beyond 350 the 7 mag is nice and the 300 s and up if you shoot them well.

[LckyTylr]

I've sat back and watched this to gain insight and learn something from you guys.


My first big game rifle was a used 30-06 (Smith & Corona). I know that my Great Uncle shot the living snot out of that rifle, so I always suspected that maybe the barrel life was fading by the time it got to me. It was NEVER an accurate rifle, not even at 100 yards. I tried many types of factory ammo as a teen and never got better than 3" groups at 100 yards. I tried all of the different cleaning regiments that I could find but it didn't seem to help Even hand loading didn't yield better results, it just never was much of a shooter. Don't get me wrong, I knew my distance limitations and killed a lot of deer with that rifle, but it wasn't ideal for Western hunting where longer shots often present themselves. I needed something different. To give credit where it's due, I only had one deer take another step after impact and it was a terrible shot (running and guts . . . lesson learned). To say that a 30.06 is lethal is an understatement, it's a very capable caliber and deserves the respect that it has earned.

My Father in Law is a shooting/reloading nut. He loves to research load data, trajectories, velocities, proven accuracy, etc. He's a great source for such things. He's not much of a killer, he loves to hunt, but doesn't get many opportunities to take shots at game. I've done a lot of research on my own to determine bullet performance at various speeds on different game species. I have my own opinions and was faced with a similar decision last year. After a lot of soul searching in addition to my research, I settled on a Remington 700 magnum action (I say it like this because Rem 700's are so easy to swap barrels for). When I bought it, it was a 7mm RUM which is one of the calibers that I was considering. I also had ambitions to eventually hunt moose with this gun and wanted to start developing a load immediately as I put in for a moose draw this last summer. While I was waiting for a 300 RUM barrel to arrive in the mail, I started developing a load for the used 7mm RUM barrel. I managed to get it shooting really well, did more research on the caliber and ultimately decided that I would leave it on. I have gotten some amazing groups with this caliber. Last time at the range was my best shooting ever. 200 yard 4-shot group (4-shots because my barrel gets too hot to do 5): 1-1/4" group from center to center. 300 yard 4-shot group: 2-3/4" group from center to center. After a lot of research, I have realized that I'm extremely lucky to get such amazing results with a factory setup.

I'm 6'1 and 200 lbs. I really don't like recoil at all, but I have spent a lot of time at the range and have conditioned myself to follow a very strict shooting routine. There is always the urge to flinch, but if you put all of your concentration towards precise accuracy, it's easy to overcome and push out of your mind. The 7 RUM DOES kick, but it's not unmanageable and it's not something I think about anymore at the range or in the field.

Specifics: Remington 700 with 26" SS barrel, standard contour. Vortex Viper 4-16x50 scope. 86 grains of Retumbo pushing a 175 grain Hornady's.

I haven't had a chance to test this load on an elk or a deer as I tagged out with my bow for deer and didn't get to rifle hunt for elk this year.
Anyway, not really headed anywhere with this post, just figured I'd share what I use. At this point, I'm not sure that I'll put the 300 RUM barrel on unless I start to wear out the used 7 RUM barrel that I have now. I'm hoping that I have a lot of life left in this barrel as I don't shoot it all that much (200 rounds/year).

Just a view of another hunter's setup.

[Indian Summer]

Some really great posts here. Yeah Lucky... ALL RUM (Remington Ultra Mag) calibers will let you know you just pulled the trigger that's for sure. They have, if I remember correctly, 17% more case capacity than the .300 Weatherby and 24 or 27% more than the .300 Win Mag. Quite the "powder keg". It is the largest case Remington can fit in the model 700 action. The bullets looks like a missile!

Just a quick comment... I do LOVE the 7mm Remington Magnum. When I was a kid and before the RUMs came along all the guys I looked up to called it "The King" Therefore it was my first gun and I still have it. That bad boy drives tacks! It's also driven it's share of elk and caribou to the happy hunting ground.

[Still Hunter]

I hunted my whole life using a Winchester 94 in 30-30. A 170gr Partition never let me down, and I never lost an elk. It's not a caliber i recommend unless you just hunt dark timber like I do.

For more open country i'd go with the 30-06. Cheap, easy to find ammo, and more than enough to kill any elk.

I've switched to a muzzleloader, and recommend that too. Much easier to find solitude, and you hunt during the rut in Colorado. I enjoy muzzleloader so much now that I use it in rifle seasons too.