Elk Activity Interpretation Thread #1.5

[WapitiTalk1]

In the same spirit of JF's elk speak video (the herd bull fighting off two satellites) which facilitated some lively and insightful discussion; I offer the attached video for comment and discussion.

1. What is occurring in this video?
2. What elk sounds do you hear and what do you think they mean in the situation shown?
3. What non verbal elk activity is occurring?

Please break down your observations by time, i.e., "at 2:28 the herd bull makes....... sounds in an attempt to ...........".

Fun stuff, let's hear your thoughts. Incidentally, all these sounds are present and explained in both the Sounds of the Elk CD and Playbook

[Mojostylee24]

Ill give it a shot. I am still a baby when it comes to elk sounds so please chime in if I am way off:

1:40 - Scream/chuckles in an attempt to gather these cows up
2:25 - Estrus buzz or just regular cow talk??
2:35 - Chuckles..." Come on come on ladies!!! what's taking so darn long!!?"
3:10
&
3:19 - Scream/chuckles one last round-up! " Move em on, Head em up , head em up, move em out...rawhiiiiiiiiiide!"

Probably way off...interested in what the fluent speakers think...


-Mojo

[WapitiTalk1]

Not too shabby Mojostylee24. No sir, it's not an estrus buzz. Perhaps more of a pleading cow sound calling a calf back that she can't see or is wandering too far off. You can hear a calf chirping about the same time you hear the elongated cow sound. Liked the Rawhide reference

Who else would like to take a jab at this one?

[WapitiTalk1]

OK, here’s my once over interpretation of this mini elk movie. At :34, cow walks by young bull and gives him the “as if” body posture . From :47-1:07, the entire varsity cheerleading squad gives the cold shoulder to the 3rd string player; the young bull hangs his head in shame and pretends to eat . At 1:27 - 1:36, herd bull (HB) is displaying/posturing and licking/tasting/checking air for estrus scent. At 1:38, HB uses calling cows to him bugle (could call it a scream) with chuckles. At 2:19-2:21 HB pants, another form of vocal display for the cows he’s attempting to impress. At 2:23, I hear a borderline pleading cow sound and calf chirping (probably mama calling her brat out of the brush so she can see him). At 2:24, HB chuckles again (his inner Barry White coming out) . At 3:10 and 3:17 (same clip played twice on video for some reason) HB again uses calling cows to him bugle with chuckles. Wanted to throw my .02 out there now as I'll be out and about this evening

Thoughts?

[ORelksniper]

Phantom, I like your interpretation and tend to agree. A question I have is, why the scream and chuckles? Maybe it's not a classic scream but certainly amped up bugle. So, why? Is it testosterone induced frustration or what?

[JGH]

Is the "Scream & Chuckles" at 1:37 a sign of intensity, or frustration? Or dominance? Or anger? Or horny-ness?

As with human communication, context is everything ... and we don't have the "context" here ... we don't know what has been happening over the day to poor old HB ...

There's an old saying that the "F"-word is the most versatile word in the English language. Although to a non-human, it's always the same "word", it can be a verb or a noun, it can relate frustration, or it might be just a joke, or a punctuation mark of sorts.

Suppose you were to see a video of a man saying the "F"-word ... and only that word ... and then were asked what it means.

"There's no way to know!", you'd say. "I have to know the context."

All communication shares this variability ... (and I apologize for my explicit language above ) ... but think of all the ways you could use the words "What are you doing" ... and mean very, very different things.

Could bugles and screams (and pants, groans, whines, and other noises) from elk be like that?

[>>>---WW---->]

Spot on John. Very true! With lots of chuckles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ORelksniper]

JGH, I believe you are dead on. Context is everything. Good analogy.

[JGH]

Ha! The glorious "F"-word!

I do apologize to those with sensitive ears (or maybe they just have more class that me!) ... but it's true!

It's the human male's "bugle".

I won't risk banning myself from this site forever by linking to it, but there's a YouTube of the movie "The Big Lebowski" edited to include ONLY that word, wherever it occurred through the movie. It shows all the variations we humans can get into JUST ONE WORD.

Watching a video like this is sort of like watching "The Big Lebowski" "F"-word version.

----

A nicer analogy: Are cow's mews like a woman's smile?

We've been looking at Mona Lisa's smile for nearly 500 years wondering "What is behind that smile?"

Maybe in 500 years we'll still wonder what cow mew's "mean".

I sure hope so!

----

If you've got a limited vocabulary ... like a bull elk does ... you've got to use more than "words" ... emotion, context, body language, inflection.

I do enjoy these videos ... they make you look for little clues ... ears back, or forward? ... head up, or down? A "full" call, or is he cutting it off because he can't remember what he's saying, like me in an argument with the wife?

[ORelksniper]

I do enjoy these videos ... they make you look for little clues ... ears back, or forward? ... head up, or down? A "full" call, or is he cutting it off because he can't remember what he's saying, like me in an argument with the wife?

Ditto

[JohnFitzgerald]

I'm glad a few can agree.

Me, I wish to hear from the other 1180 forum readers who might have misinterpreted the audio clues. Tell me what made you come to your conclusion? Right, wrong, or indifferent. Lets dissect the misunderstanding. Thank you Mojo and John for putting yourself out there!

Mojo, why did you think that was an estrus buz? John, nice job explaining your thoughts.

Like RJ stated, these exact sounds are on the "Sounds By The Elk" CD. I encourage everyone to get this CD! But just because one can recite from it doesn't mean they completely understand what makes it a Calling Cows Bugle.

Once again, in this thread we mention the Scream in a context to address cows. Last video thread it was used in the context to address a challenge to a bull. I know exactly what the speaker is talking about, but how about the rest of the 1180 listeners.

When my son gets an answer wrong on his math test, does he learn anything if I say the answer is 2x-3? Or does he understand better if we look at the problem and define how/where he went wrong.

Just my 2-cents!

[Mojostylee24]

Mojo, why did you think that was an estrus buz?

I was taking a wild guess...I dont have the CD's or the Playbook, yet (x-mas c'mon!) I read a lot of threads and have seen a few clips by Paul on how to make the estrus buzz and just I mis-identified it. After going back to those clips and listening a little closer I can definitely hear the pleading mew instead. At least I knew that a cow made it!! haha

[JohnFitzgerald]

Great mojo! Misidentifying the sound/meaning can be the difference between a dead bull and one that lives another day. .

[WapitiTalk1]

You're on it mojo. Being a student of the game is very important!

[JohnFitzgerald]

Here's a question for everyone.

At ~3:07 what makes it a Calling Cows Bugle and not a Challenge Bugle? Flip to the other video thread if you need to. Also, pretend you had no visual of the bull.

[JGH]

You got me ...

The characteristics I hear (pretending I can't see him) are:

It's short, starting low, then getting high-pitched ... without grunts or chuckles preceding or following.

But either I didn't know those were specific features of calling cows, or I'm missing something.

Help!

[JohnFitzgerald]

The chuckles are a dead give away that he's talking to his cows. But don't confuse Chuckles with Grunts.(maybe that can be another thread) What about the Bugle? Our good buddy Troy talks about tone, intensity, and pitch. I also like to throw in length on occassion. Can you see the difference with the two bulls?

Take my black lab for example. When she see's a possible threat to the house her barks are very low, growly, longer, and more intense . However, when I walk by the back door and don't see that she wants in her barks are whinny, high pitched, and more pleading.