What happened with this bull?!?

[Backcountry]

Josh (MTLongdraw) and I were able to get out this weekend. We pushed into a a nice looking draw that was loaded with fresh snow. While exploring around we stumbled across a small finger ridge loaded with rubs. While moving through this area a bull through out a half assed bugle at us from 100-150 yards out. I assume he heard us walking and was identifying himself? I sent Josh towards the bull about 40 yards and then sent out a bugle. Nothing. A few cow calls, nothing.

Eventually we had worked into where the bull had been. We found 4-5 beds. All but one of the bed had tracks heading down the draw and away from us. The other set, the bulls, headed in our direction to a high point and then turned around and headed up hill and away from his cows. We decided to follow his tracks beings we were between his cows and him now. We ended up getting into the bull 3 times. I threw challenge bugles and him, excited cow calls. Nothing would turn him. All of this was within 80 yards.

The bull eventually moved off while we quietly followed his tracks. The bull never spooked and always acted somewhat curious in the calls, primarily cow calls. What I don't understand is why the bull never responded to anything when we were between him and his cows? Any insight from you elknutters?

[JohnFitzgerald]

I'm a little confused. So the bull left his cows? If he did then I would say he was sick, tired of rutting, or already had an arrow in him. It's odd that he allowed the separation.

I'm guessing the cows had already moved on long before the bull got there. In any case, if he showed no interest in defending his cows I would have worked him like a satellite bull not a herd bull. Challenge bugles were probably not the best sound to use.

Tough to make a good recommendation. Never seen a bull leave cows so easily. Sounds like there was more unknown factors in play.

Just my dos centos!

[Broken arrow]

I am not even close to an expert. My thought here would have been where is he going and can I get in front of him?
Why? If you just walked up the stairs and someone yelled at you do you walk back down or say what? Just a thought.

[Swede]

I think your mistake was in responding with cow calls and a bull sound. If you had stayed with just the cow calls you would have been ok. It would have been fine to sound off with a small bull sound, but you told him you were a bull with cows. He wanted no part of a herd bull.

[cnelk]

Swede nailed it

There are times you need to go with just a cow call and other times just a bugle.

Case Scenario:
Last Sunday morning we got into a few elk. But beyond them we heard two separate bugles.
We had our suspicions that those 2 bugles could be hunters, but not to investigate could be a lost opportunity.
The elk we saw went toward the bugling so we slipped up and checked it out
I bugled back to the bugles and it turned out to be a couple hunters

But in the meantime, I had thrown in a couple cow calls and BEHIND US a real bull responded with a squeal.
The 2 hunters didnt pick up on it so we slipped back a 100yds and got on that bull.
He would not respond to the other guy's bugles, only to my cow call.
We got on him by using the cow call, stopped him within range, but no shot offered

During this whole time, those 2 hunters were sounding off on their bugles ever 2 min and didnt even hear the cow calls.

Ya just never know...

[JohnFitzgerald]

So if the bull did separate himself from his cows, why would only cow sounds be the best solution? Wouldn't it be easier to follow a sure thing than come to the unknown. Just a little puzzled.

[Backcountry]

I think your mistake was in responding with cow calls and a bull sound. If you had stayed with just the cow calls you would have been ok. It would have been fine to sound off with a small bull sound, but you told him you were a bull with cows. He wanted no part of a herd bull.

Thanks for all the input guys. We have been mulling over it a lot.

[WapitiTalk1]

Perhaps not identifying himself but calling on "you" to identify yourself as he heard you approach. As some have said, not sure, but a guess is that he was a smaller bull (or previously butt kicked bull) that has collected himself a few cows and is very defensive, borderline paranoid, of an intruding bull that may wish to steal his chicks. Possibly staying with only cow calls may have gotten you closer. Did he chuckle at all? Just curious.

[Trophyhill]

elk sense when something is not quite right whether by site, sound, smell or all of the above. they are incredibly good at surviving.

[Backcountry]

Perhaps not identifying himself but calling on "you" to identify yourself as he heard you approach. As some have said, not sure, but a guess is that he was a smaller bull (or previously butt kicked bull) that has collected himself a few cows and is very defensive, borderline paranoid, of an intruding bull that may wish to steal his chicks. Possibly staying with only cow calls may have gotten you closer. Did he chuckle at all? Just curious.

Other than his first "bugle" he never made another sound.

[GetemDuck]

Ok not an elk expert here but I'll say this....I have seen more the two dozen times where you spook a herd of white tail and the does go one way and the bucks another. It seems like they have some kind of exit plan but then reground when they feel it is safe. Like I said I've seen it a lot. as for the calling and not responding my first thought would be call shy elk or a satellite that lucked into a herd with no bull (for one reason or another) and was trying to keep it on the down low lets face it, if you were a pocket protector wearing 80 pound nerd who got a hot girl, would you take her to a night club were you might end up going home alone? Like I said I'm no expert so my two cents is worth about as much as a coupon for kitty litter.

[ElkNut1]

Dave, very common encounter you experienced, we all get busted with a similar scenario every year, why? Because we hear a bugle as you did & know a bull is just "right there" we try to formulate a plan but sometimes too much time goes by before we are set & this can bugger the bull/elk out of there, at times a short low bugle & growl will follow his original bugle, when you hear this it's game over! (grin) The bull you heard was not identifying himself, no need to. He was wanting to know who or what made the sounds you & your bud were making. When elk ask this they want immediate satisfaction or they move off very quickly. It's possible you were also seen by the bull or a cow as you trudged forward noisily, elk are smarter than we give them credit for at times especially if these elk had seen this rodeo before from other hunters in the area.

With you folks now on the "threat" list with these elk you have little to no chance at bringing them your way with calling from the area they feel the threat is! Yes, these elk will move away quickly, sometimes you can get the bull to respond back as he puts distance between you & him but he's not coming back to you in most cases.

It's quite common for bulls to separate from the cows when exiting especially if you are seen, they will hook up later! During rut phases bulls will leave cow groups by great distances in search of more cows then return, cows can take care of themselves, they will shun lesser bulls even though they may advance on them, cows want "breeder" bulls not subordinate bulls to cover them, their herd bull knows his place. Just watch bulls & cows as they bed, it's not uncommon to see the herd bull to bed 150yds away from the group of cows, calves, spikes, etc. Other times he's right with them, nothing written in stone here.

At any rate beware of those bulls that bugle at those closer distances when you have not called first, it means they've seen an unidentified movement or sound that shouldn't be there! I'm not referring to calling encounter where you've been already working a bull. Good Luck!

ElkNut1

[elkmtngear]

Is it possible that the vocal bull was a Satellite? And the herd bull was just silent?

That would explain a lot.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Is it possible that the vocal bull was a Satellite? And the herd bull was just silent?

That would explain a lot.

Great thought Jeff, your senerio could be correct. I think there was too many unknowns with only tracks and some bugles as evidence. We can only guess as to what the true sequence was.

Paul's comment - I've known bulls to take breaks from herd tending but didn't know they'll leave to search for more cows. Interesting! I guess the question I have is what factors will give a bull the sense of security that he feels he can leave his cows? Cow's not near estrus, no other vocal bulls nearby, or fewer bulls in the area? This year we hunted 5-6 major herds, most of which had 2-4 breeding satellites running around. Would a bull leave his herd in that type of situation to go look for other cows?

Pondering..........!

[MTLongdraw]

I'm gonna go get him in the morning...I'll let you know what I find out He didn't look much like a satelite from what I saw!