i have researched backpacks to death.

[pointysticks]

good lordie!! i have an envelope hidden, and it is labeled, "backpack stash". i am just about there. (already there for most pack systems). i agreed with my wife NOT to buy hunting gear with my credit card. eliminates that impulse shopping that i suffer from

i love regular backpacking. backpacking without a clear goal. no hunting, no fishing. i love hunting, i like-alot fishing. so i am shopping for a pack that can do it all. i even use a backpack when i travel southeast asia. running and hopping a moving train is impossible otherwise

i need a pack that can get my regular gear into the back country for up to 14 days. it needs to pack a bow, or a rifle (someday), or a fishing rod. it needs to have capacity for game meat. it needs to have daypack capabilities. i would love it to have a removable section for very light stuff..like carrying my fishing tackle. needs to be water bladder capable.

i looked at plenty of packs. mystery ranch, stone glacier, etc. i keep coming back to Kifaru. here is what i have it down to. comments?

all of this will be in a non camo pattern. torn 50/50 between coyote brown, or foliage green.

bikini frame w 26" stays (thanks dot!)
Timberline 2 duplex
XTL top lid, which i believe you can wear as a shoulder bag full of trout lures
Hunting Cargo panel.

later down the road, i'll fit a small daypack unit to the outside of the cargo panel. (?) with the cargo panel detached..i think this will make a great lightweight backpack bag. with the cargo panel, i can carry my bow or even an additional duffle on world travel trips. my logic sound?

never in my wildest dreams did i imagine spending this kinda money on a pack. it is K's modular system that makes it the most attractive to me.

i need to make a decision..i hate waffling on stuff like this.

[Vanish]

Let me know how it goes! I use my Badlands 4500 for all-purpose use but I will admit it is not ideal. For starters it is twice as heavy as a "normal" backpack not designed for hunting! The brain can be used as a fanny pack, which works well for fishing, but that is also where their custom water bladder goes. I don't like the fact it uses a custom one either (I don't own it, I use the side pocket for my bladder but once again, not ideal).

[dotman]

I love me coyote brown

Personally I would skip the xtl and wait a season to see what you really need.

Starting out here is all I recommend:
Frame
Bag
Grab it
Lash strap kit
1 small pocket for belt

After that I would just wait and see, you will determine what other organization you want/need after your first year. For lids just stick with the standard for now. If you really think you need more from your lid the consider what you plan to dowith it. I have an E&E that mounts up perfect as a lid and doesn't weigh a ton more then the current lid options but I use it for everything. It has a hydration sleeve and webbing/common loops to add organization to it. Small laptops fit in it, my spotter fits in it, gym clothes, etc. This is an item that you can mount to your frame directly and have 1000ci of dayhunt gear.

I also like the traditional backpack fit of the E&E, I had a longhunter lid and hated it. If you do go the E&E route you can also update the shoulder straps.

Biggest reason I recommend the E&E, you can use it year round daily, mine is coyote brown and I wouldn't ever get rid of it.

So hope this helps

[dotman]

Also the xtl lid costs $96 and the E&E $100, I think you would rather walk around town with a backpack then a purse . Xtl 15oz. E&E 21oz

[RockChucker30]

PS,

I tested our new prototype last week with 119 lbs for 1.5 miles and did 11 miles with 35 lbs. It's the most comfortable pack I've ever tried, and I've owned a LOT of packs.

The pack system has interchangeable pack bags, is usable without a bag as just a pack frame, utilizes waterproof materials, and you'll have the option of using a small daypack as a compression panel. All up weights will range from 2.5 to 4.5 lbs, and it'll be priced to provide a lot of value.

New protos will be going out to testers soon, then we will likely recycle those testers into a demo program in July.

Nathan

[Vanish]

I've got 9 days in the Flat Tops coming up on June 29th *wink wink*

[Migolito]

I think you're expecting too much from a single piece of equipment, and will not be satisfied with the outcome. All packs are a compromise if you want one to do it all.
I also backpack, just for the fun of Backpacking. I have evolved into an ultralite backpacker, however, I'm not what is called a gram counter. When I backpack into trout country I use a Granite Gear Blaze (http://www.granitegearstore.com/Blaze-A ... 09C67.aspx) that is 60 ltrs and weighs 2.14 lb. I also used this pack to walk 500 miles across Northern Spain last year with a 22 lp load. However, There are packs that weigh less than half this which I will consider as my addiction grows. I.e. cuben material packs, tents, etc.
When I bivy hunt with bow or rifle I use a Badlands 2200 (http://www.badlandspacks.com/gear.php?userChoice=2200) that weighs 5.2Lbs. For bivy hunting this pack works extremely well. It hauls in my camp/rifle/bow and hauls out my animal-although I self impose about a 50 pound haul out limit, it will haul much much more. A person could spent hundreds of dollars for a pack that is the end all be all as advertised...but, there simply isn't such a thing. You may consider looking at several purpose specific packs and re-examine your gear (specifically your back packing gear) and look into lighter weight gear.

[kevin_t]

Plus one on prototype pack. I've done up to 16 miles in a day and up to 130 lbs and it performed very well, Comfortable, stable, lightweight, large and robust

[dotman]

Deleted

[dotman]

I think you're expecting too much from a single piece of equipment, and will not be satisfied with the outcome. All packs are a compromise if you want one to do it all.
I also backpack, just for the fun of Backpacking. I have evolved into an ultralite backpacker, however, I'm not what is called a gram counter. When I backpack into trout country I use a Granite Gear Blaze (http://www.granitegearstore.com/Blaze-A ... 09C67.aspx) that is 60 ltrs and weighs 2.14 lb. I also used this pack to walk 500 miles across Northern Spain last year with a 22 lp load. However, There are packs that weigh less than half this which I will consider as my addiction grows. I.e. cuben material packs, tents, etc.
When I bivy hunt with bow or rifle I use a Badlands 2200 (http://www.badlandspacks.com/gear.php?userChoice=2200) that weighs 5.2Lbs. For bivy hunting this pack works extremely well. It hauls in my camp/rifle/bow and hauls out my animal-although I self impose about a 50 pound haul out limit, it will haul much much more. A person could spent hundreds of dollars for a pack that is the end all be all as advertised...but, there simply isn't such a thing. You may consider looking at several purpose specific packs and re-examine your gear (specifically your back packing gear) and look into lighter weight gear.

Not to sound rude but neither of those packs are in the same league as what he is looking at.

[Migolito]

I think you're expecting too much from a single piece of equipment, and will not be satisfied with the outcome. All packs are a compromise if you want one to do it all.
I also backpack, just for the fun of Backpacking. I have evolved into an ultralite backpacker, however, I'm not what is called a gram counter. When I backpack into trout country I use a Granite Gear Blaze (http://www.granitegearstore.com/Blaze-A ... 09C67.aspx) that is 60 ltrs and weighs 2.14 lb. I also used this pack to walk 500 miles across Northern Spain last year with a 22 lp load. However, There are packs that weigh less than half this which I will consider as my addiction grows. I.e. cuben material packs, tents, etc.
When I bivy hunt with bow or rifle I use a Badlands 2200 (http://www.badlandspacks.com/gear.php?userChoice=2200) that weighs 5.2Lbs. For bivy hunting this pack works extremely well. It hauls in my camp/rifle/bow and hauls out my animal-although I self impose about a 50 pound haul out limit, it will haul much much more. A person could spent hundreds of dollars for a pack that is the end all be all as advertised...but, there simply isn't such a thing. You may consider looking at several purpose specific packs and re-examine your gear (specifically your back packing gear) and look into lighter weight gear.

Not to sound rude but neither of those packs are in the same league as what he is looking at.

No offense taken. I know a 460 weatherby will will kill a rabbit, but, I use a .22

[dotman]

Deleted

[eltaco]

I have a BT1 on order and I'm expecting quite a lot out of it as well. Unfortunately, my ship date isn't until mid-July so it might be next year before I make lid, pouch selections and alterations that make it perfect for what I'm after. I also never dreamed that I'd spend this much on a pack, so hopefully it is all its cracked up to be.

I'd be interested in learning more on this "prototype" pack that we're reading about. Too bad it wasn't marketed in time for this season... I'd love to hear reviews from people who used a production quality version for a whole season by the time 2014 season rolls around.

[RockChucker30]

Vanish,

Ten days is pretty short notice, but you're a guy I'd like to have try it out, even if it's after your trip. Shoot me a PM and we can talk about it.

Eltaco, we are doing all we can to get the pack into production ASAP, but we have to do that while maintaining very high quality standards. Thus the testers....we've asked several people to test it and do their best to tear something up. The goal is to have a very durable but light pack that is really comfortable.

You nailed one of our considerations, which is to have the production model ready to hunt this fall, because real world experience this fall will drive sales next year.

[dotman]

Deleted

[RockChucker30]

Tim,

I've owned, tested, and used 24 top end backpacks since I got into backpacking. During the design and testing of the Paradox Evolution frame I have personally logged 25 miles carrying loads of 100 lbs or more, and many, many more miles at lower weights. We have developed a truly revolutionary frame design that we are excited enough about to patent.

You've got strong opinions, and you're entitled to them. Please leave me out of your rants though. I ignored your slights and digs until you mentioned me personally. I'm happy to keep ignoring you if you will allow me to.

[Indian Summer]

[quote="Migolito"]I think you're expecting too much from a single piece of equipment, and will not be satisfied with the outcome. All packs are a compromise if you want one to do it all. quote]

I couldn't agree more. Besides... the "small" daypack capablility from a pack suited for 14 days ain't happening. Also... how big isn't small enough? A little pack is quickly stuffed until you're putting undue stress on the zippers. 2000 ci is small enough I'd say.

I won't debate about what pack you might consider but I'll make a general suggestion. Why not get a good pack frame that you can lash unlimited weight to, maybe with the use of a Grab It, and put the day pack of your choice on the frame for use once you are in camp. Both the frame and the pack are built for a specific purpose. 2 pieces of specialized gear, that's about as versatile as you can get without sacrificing any functionality at all.

[quarbles]

why does the gear always end up owning you? i tend to get sucked in as a total gearhead, but it is just a piece of kit... not a subscription to a lifestyle or membership into the elite.....
if you gots the moneys and need the kit, go for it. if it makes you a li'l queezy dropping the coin, maybe youy don't really need it. perhaps if your time spent afield is annually in the weeks as opposed to months.......
but that would be a very sweet pack setup.... just fugly expensive.

[kevin_t]

Actually I sort of disagree on the compromise aspect. The prototypes that have been mentioned can go from 600 cubic inches to nearly 8000 cubic inches without much compromise. If I considered anything a compromise maybe it is that the daypack could be a bit bigger but then of course you can use it with a gateway or just put it on the frame with other stuff in a stuff sack.

[jpratt]

good lordie!! i have an envelope hidden, and it is labeled, "backpack stash". i am just about there. (already there for most pack systems). i agreed with my wife NOT to buy hunting gear with my credit card. eliminates that impulse shopping that i suffer from

i love regular backpacking. backpacking without a clear goal. no hunting, no fishing. i love hunting, i like-alot fishing. so i am shopping for a pack that can do it all. i even use a backpack when i travel southeast asia. running and hopping a moving train is impossible otherwise

i need a pack that can get my regular gear into the back country for up to 14 days. it needs to pack a bow, or a rifle (someday), or a fishing rod. it needs to have capacity for game meat. it needs to have daypack capabilities. i would love it to have a removable section for very light stuff..like carrying my fishing tackle. needs to be water bladder capable.

i looked at plenty of packs. mystery ranch, stone glacier, etc. i keep coming back to Kifaru. here is what i have it down to. comments?

all of this will be in a non camo pattern. torn 50/50 between coyote brown, or foliage green.

bikini frame w 26" stays (thanks dot!)
Timberline 2 duplex
XTL top lid, which i believe you can wear as a shoulder bag full of trout lures
Hunting Cargo panel.

later down the road, i'll fit a small daypack unit to the outside of the cargo panel. (?) with the cargo panel detached..i think this will make a great lightweight backpack bag. with the cargo panel, i can carry my bow or even an additional duffle on world travel trips. my logic sound?

never in my wildest dreams did i imagine spending this kinda money on a pack. it is K's modular system that makes it the most attractive to me.

i need to make a decision..i hate waffling on stuff like this.

Well my opinion might not carry much weight since I am from the relative flat land of the midwest. LOL! But as for your choice in packs it is up to the user and how well it fits you and your needs. I also choose Kifaru and a bikini frame with DT2 bag. I have a long hunter lid coming for that and a grab it. I also have a E&E that is one awesome little pack that can serve mulitple uses. it would make a great top lid and on your main pack and a great day/fishing pack when in camp. I think for 14 days you might want the DT1 or the high camp 7000. Not sure the Dt2 has enough CI's.

[wawhitey]

hate to jack a thread, i can make a new one, but doesnt anybody just use a bare pack frame, some game bags, and a bit of rope to pack elk out? seems everybody spends 500 bones on these fancy packs, but why not just carry bare essentials like knife, rope, fire starting gear, headlamp and water, plus some game bags, then if you get an elk down put it in the game bags and tie it to the pack frame? i just packed a 60lb bag of sweet cob up a ridge to a camera on my bare frame, with some poly rope to tie it down, and it felt like no big deal at all. why the emphasis on fancy packs? isnt a bare frame and some rope and meat bags just as useful if not more so? seems less restrictive to me. but then again ive never had a high end pack.

[eltaco]

hate to jack a thread, i can make a new one, but doesnt anybody just use a bare pack frame, some game bags, and a bit of rope to pack elk out? seems everybody spends 500 bones on these fancy packs, but why not just carry bare essentials like knife, rope, fire starting gear, headlamp and water, plus some game bags, then if you get an elk down put it in the game bags and tie it to the pack frame? i just packed a 60lb bag of sweet cob up a ridge to a camera on my bare frame, with some poly rope to tie it down, and it felt like no big deal at all. why the emphasis on fancy packs? isnt a bare frame and some rope and meat bags just as useful if not more so? seems less restrictive to me. but then again ive never had a high end pack.

That's exactly what I've done for the past 5yrs and what I imagine the vast majority of elk hunters do. Outside of these forums, I don't have a single hunting buddy with a $500+ pack.

It really comes down to convenience. I typically hunt out of a base camp and when we put a bull down, one guy is hoofing it back to camp while the shooter quarters out the elk. If you have a frame already on your back, you see that it becomes more convenient for the "pack runner".

Aside from convenience, I'm hoping that this frame rides more comfortably than my cabelas Alaskan guide frame. I believe it will, and truthfully this was one of the reasons I decided to go this route.

Lastly, I'm going to start backcountry hunting this season, and my cabelas frame/pack came in at 12.5#. My kifaru should be about 5.5# when I get done with it. I'm sure that I'll appreciate that weight savings when I have all of my gear loaded up.

I'm reading a lot more about these pack options this year than ever before, but at the end of the day, there are considerably more people that hunt without them than with them. That said, there are an awefully lot of elk hunters who haven't yet experienced packing out an elk... and once you do a few, you'll start searching for better options. There's a lot of guys who are seriously under prepared for putting one on the ground..... I certainly was the first time I put an animal on the ground in the mountains, and its not an experience that I'll soon forget.

[RockChucker30]

Wawhitey,

A Kelty cache hauler and a separate daypack is a great option for guys who day hunt.

The higher end packs are more for guys who backpack hunt and who don't want to make an empty trip out to get a pack frame.

Also, the pack we are developing is meant to carry weight more comfortably than an external, but provide shoulder articulation and freedom so you can move through brush quieter and draw a bow easier while wearing it. The cost is also easier to justify if you backpack in the offseason.

[pointysticks]

remember like it was yesterday. my first pack was CAMO and cost me $50. i thought i was cool. then i got an elk down!!

my first load out..walking along praying my legs didnt fail me..i heard it. it was so faint, but it was clear. "rip-click"..i asked my brother.."what is that noise?"..he looked at my pack, and the shoulder strap was tearing out!! hahahha..100 lb duffle bag was not the best thing to carry off a steep mountain.

i then quickly changed my prayer to.."please dont let my pack fail me..or my legs". by the time i was at the truck, i had just a few threads holding, and i had my hand over my shoulders holding onto the pack. it was awful. i grabbed my 1982 Jansport Cascade (or Cresent?) up for the next load..it was way better. coincidentally i think it also cost me $50. hahaa.

my older badlands 2800 can carry the load, and has..but it is extremely uncomfy. the early bags didnt give load lifters a high priority.

plus, i want to hunt more off my back..and less from a truck camp. seems more adventurous.

[Migolito]

doesnt anybody just use a bare pack frame, some game bags, and a bit of rope to pack elk out? seems everybody spends 500 bones on these fancy packs, but why not just carry bare essentials like knife, rope, fire starting gear, headlamp and water, plus some game bags, then if you get an elk down put it in the game bags and tie it to the pack frame?

Yup

[JGH]

As above ... it's nice to have a pack that is versatile. If you backpack in the off-season, you know the advantages of a light pack. I also like to use my pack as luggage for most weekend trips to see family or visit the big city.

Having a pack instead of a wheeled piece of luggage is great in an airport.

Sure, you don't need to have such versatility just to pack out meat -- but it's nice to look at a pack like it's an old friend. My packs -- weather they are simple camelbacks or backpacking packs -- look at me like a bird dog looks at its owner: "Where we goin' this time, boss?"

And like a good dog, the cost of the puppy is irrelevant. You'll get all that an more back.

[Aron Snyder]

Wawhitey,

A Kelty cache hauler and a separate daypack is a great option for guys who day hunt.

The higher end packs are more for guys who backpack hunt and who don't want to make an empty trip out to get a pack frame.

Also, the pack we are developing is meant to carry weight more comfortably than an external, but provide shoulder articulation and freedom so you can move through brush quieter and draw a bow easier while wearing it. The cost is also easier to justify if you backpack in the offseason.

Good luck with the pack design! Looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with!

Let me know if you have questions and I'll try and help you out.

[ElkNut1]

As an elk hunter & meat hauler for many years now I've been around a bit & have hauled heavy loads off the mountain countless times. Over the years I've used about every combination a guy could muster up. (grin) I've hauled elk out on countless packs, pack frames & without packs for too many miles to count. After all this trial & error it comes down to ones use of the pack for his style of hunting. I've found that having a pack that will double as an all day pack & meat hauler with an internal/external frame in some cases produces the best results, they are lightweight, not bulky or noisy. A good pack should be one that you hardly notice is on your back during ones hunt. These moderate type lightweight packs can also be used for 3-4 night bivy hunts if needed.

I've used the pack frame daypack thing & personally wouldn't recommend it for run & gun style elk hunting, it's too bulky & noisy not to mention uncomfortable. Hunters would be better off with a good internal or non-bulky external type frame pack. Price range can dictate the pack of choice. These packs can range from 175.00 to near a 1000.00. Pick the one you can afford & suits your needs!

ElkNut1