Max Time at Full Draw waiting for Shot Opportunity?

[mtnmutt]

I just started practicing staying at full draw for longer periods of time.

Can you all give me a length of time you have had to stay at full draw waiting for a shot opportunity on an elk?

Thanks.

[pointysticks]

my bow, a Mathews Z7 is not great at this. i have a bum shoulder, and it really eats into my draw hold time.

my next bow, will need to hold easy, and probably be a 60lb-er. thinking Elite Hunter.

the Z7, you even mentally relax, and it wants to GO!..letting down is not a smooth affair either.

[Trophyhill]

It's good to practice this mtnmutt. My bow also pretty much holds itself once at full draw. I've had to let off while waiting/hoping for a shot. Pretty common I think. When holding and waiting for a shot it can seem like an eternity when in reality it may only be a minute or less.

[easeup]

that is a many varied thing you ask......
the weight you pull, the type country you hunt,(thick or thin), the way the bull comes in, the scenario that is being played, and of course when you elected to draw.

for me I had to hold over a minute once.....let it down to rest, patiently waited, called, let luck grow, and drew again and got the job done.
most of the time it is always under a minute. so an important point is when you decide to draw.

[mtnmutt]

Thank you all. Very good points.

My bow is 50DW with 80% left off with a decent back wall and just a tad forgiving valley.

I always practice drawing straight back with minimum movement. However, I found it is not good idea to do it when they are staring at you.

I have only had one experience drawing on an elk. Bull was perfect broadside in open meadow at 16 yards, staring straight at me opening morning while I sat in a hole with minimum cover. This was when I was a bit stupid for setup locations. I did successfully draw straight back without spooking the bull, however, upon release, the bull jumped the bow string.

I normally hunt medium to dense pine forest.

I will practice to at least 1 minute with these 2 scenarios: when rested and after running up and down my house stairs 10 times. Likely, the 2nd exercise at full draw will be harder.

I will add in an exercise of full draw for 1 minute, let down, full draw for another minute and release.

65 degrees is different than 25 degrees temps, so I won't know how my practicing will translate to real world conditions.

[slim9300]

It's good to practice this mtnmutt. My bow also pretty much holds itself once at full draw. I've had to let off while waiting/hoping for a shot. Pretty common I think. When holding and waiting for a shot it can seem like an eternity when in reality it may only be a minute or less.

Exactly. The funny thing is that I seem to lose 'long-term' strength when my adrenaline is up. I can only hold that dang bow back for a minute or maybe slightly more when an elk is coming in. If I was at my house practicing, I bet I could hold back for at least two minutes. Lol. I think that it has something to do with the burst of adrenaline expending more energy right away and the lack of blood flow to my extremities.

[Indian Summer]

This could lead to another really good question which is: At what point do you decde to draw your bow? Obviously if you tend to draw early you could find yourself holding for a longer period. If you wait until you actually have a shot then not long at all.

I've been at full draw until I had to let down. That is a worst fear. There's a chance of getting busted and now you're not ready to shoot. But I think it's better than having an elk standing with an unobstructed view of me and then trying to draw and shoot. I guess the answer is obvious.... draw as late as possible but just before the animal step into your shooting lane. I guess the next obvious statement would be that's sure easier said than done. The ideal scenario is the elk is in the open and in range or about to be & then walks behind a tree or object to block it's view just long enough for you to draw. That's happened for me once. lol Really it's just a call made from gut instinct depending on a pile of possible variables.

On another thread I mentioned I might lower my draw weight a little. I shot today from an elevated stand. It went really well. But as I drew the 73 pounds I couldn't help but think man that seems like more than I need and less sure seems tempting. Being able to hold longer is a huge benefit. So is being able to draw slow and smooth. I think I'll give it a try next week. if I get a crack at a bear next month it will be standing still at 20 yards. I might go to 65 lbs and leave it like that for the hunt and rethink elk season after that. After shooting 70+ lbs for the last 25 years it'll feel like a dream I think.

Good question and great idea to practice that.

[mtnmutt]

All very good information.

I definitely did not think about adrenaline zapping your reserves. I know the colder weather effects my draw.

I should have mentioned that I normally practice at 1-2 lbs higher DW than I use for hunting which only has a slight change in point of impact. Drawing back in 25 degrees while sitting on the ground is harder than standing and drawing in 60 degrees. I realize now I need to also practice holding at full draw while sitting. While on an ambush and cold call setup, I draw and let down every 10 minutes to keep my muscles warmed up.

Due to a shoulder injury, I have not yet made it to 52#. I have to creep up in 0.5 lb increments, otherwise, I risk re-injury. Even a 1# reduction in DW can make a huge difference for me on ease of drawing and holding at full draw.

Thanks all for helping me on this.

[Swede]

When to draw and hold time is much more of a problem for hunters out calling or spot & stalk hunting, than for hunters in a blind or tree stand. That is not to say that the tree stand hunter or person in a blind can throw caution to the wind. It is just that they have more opportunity to draw without being spotted. Elk are not looking up in the trees much, and if we are in a blind we can come to full draw behind cover. I know that is not what mtnmutt is asking about, but hopefully it is of value to someone. That being a given it is still important as Indian Summer wrote to exercise judgment in determining when to draw. Another important item to remember is to take your time and take careful aim before you release an arrow. For some reason that is a huge problem for some hunters. I know of hunters who never experience a problem , while for others it is persistent, and they miss time and time again.

[cnelk]

I think I have let down and re-drawn more times than I have held for an extended period of time.
Each scenario is different as cover, elk movement, and setup dictate if you have to draw and hold.

But I would rather draw, settle the pin and release than to hold for a minute or longer

[slim9300]

I am more from the camp of waiting until the last second to draw versus drawing early and holding back. I always have a reed in my mouth so it's normally pretty easy to stop a 'spooked' bull with a quick cow call if necessary. (They normally have no idea what the movement was) Keep in mind that I also shoot very quickly inside of 20 yards.

[JJ Overkill]

i try and practice this myself. i dont know if you shoot with one eye open or both. i shoot one eye open. what i have found, when holding for a long period of time 1min or more my eye gets strained and blurrs my vision. when holding i open both eyes to prevent blurred vision. sorry if this doesnt help at all but its the one thing that effected me the most.

[Da White Shoe]

In my early years, drawing too early was much more costly than drawing too late.
I've killed a lot of elk that have watched me draw after I called to stop them.
If they stop in the wrong place, with no shot, and they can see you when you have to let down... well, it sucks!

[tdiesel]

Practicing is fine. Correct time to draw is the best thing you can master but still sometimes you have to hold. If kneeling down rest cam on leg and you can extend the amount of time holding just make sure to get the came off the leg far enough you don't split yourself open when you shoot. Most my set ups I'm kneeling so this helps me.

[>>>---WW---->]

http://www.bowtuningtips.com/files/html ... wlong.html

See if this help next time

[elkmtngear]

Shooting with 80 percent letoff now, so I have the luxury to hold if needed. I can certainly think of a couple times in the past when I could have used that luxury.

Most of my hold times in the past have been relatively short, mostly because I knew it would affect the shot if I held for an extended period.

Sounds like a good idea to practice it; at least I will know my limitations when it comes to draw and hold time.

[mtnmutt]

All great information.

jerinmn's tip: Both eyes open to prevent blurry eyes. Never would have thought of it. In teen temps with light wind, I had my eyes watering during a 3D shot and my eye got blurry. I could not get rid of it. Had to letdown.

The WW's video clip was interesting. Not sure if I would put the bow string against my chest like that because I am a woman and if I accidentally let go, it would hurt my chest in a very bad way. I have never had to apply ice to that area and hope I never do.

Since 90% of the time, I am sitting. tdiesel's suggestion of the cam on your leg is something I will try next time shooting 3D. I have short ATA but also a short torso so maybe there is minimum movement lifting the bow off my leg before shooting.

My hard cam bow: Mathews Jewel makes an aggressive movement on letdown. Even drawing back is not as smooth as my old soft cam bow. There is hump drawing back.

Patience rules the day. Wait for the elk's view to be blocked. Don't draw too early. Practice, Practice, Practice.

[Trophyhill]

That is a good point Indian Summer. 2 years ago I called a bull in for my friend. I was positioned in a saddle and my friend was set up slightly downhill and 15 yards off the elk trail from which the bull was coming up. And he was bugling on his way. He waited for the bull to walk past him. The bull was focused on the cow (me). As Harold drew his bow the bull whirled and ran back down the same way he came and Harold never got a shot. I mentioned to him that he should have drawn when he saw the tips of the antlers before his eyes came into view as the bull was coming up the trail.

Fast forward to last year. Very similar situation with his brother calling. The bull was vocal and coming fast. He drew before he saw the elk, had to hold briefly and killed a nice bull at 6 yards.

[flystrait]

I will awnser the question! I can hold up to about 2 minutes before I start getting fatigued. I have only had to let down a couple times over the years but it would be good practice to hold for about that lenght of time. I also shoot with both eyes open. I started out closing one eye for many years and switched, which took some time to get used to. At the end of the day I believe it is a benefit to use both eyes when shooting.

[Jaquomo]

Since I hunt with stickbows, I'd say maybe 5 seconds, max. Most of the time 1-2 seconds with my normal rhythm. But I'm very careful about planning when and where to draw as the shot opportunity is being created.

For straight-on deals, I just wait until he starts to turn, then draw and shoot him slightly quartering away. Seems like they almost always lead with their head when they turn, so I can start my draw as soon as his eye is hidden, even at very close range. Too many hunters panic when a bull is straight on. Often this is because they've already drawn and can't hold anymore, so they waver, let down, or shoot. If they're patient, the bull will very often walk on past or slowly turn to leave.

IMO, most hunters spend too much time looking at the elk, and not enough time looking ahead to plan the shot. Pick your shot, then pick your spot.

[Jaquomo]

I also believe most hunters' draw motion is way too exaggerated. This can be because they are overbowed or have bad drawing habits. If you can't hold the bow in draw position and draw it straight back to anchor without reaching for the sky or lifting the bow, leaning back, twisting (we've all seen the contortions many go through) then you should drop your poundage. The only thing that should move during the entire drawing sequence when shooting at an animal is the draw arm and elbow.

This goes for many stickbow shooters, too, who read G.Fred Asbells books and try to draw as they're raising the bow. Way too much movement.

[Arapahoe]

I think the Instincts of reading an animals body language and knowing when and when not to draw is an art form developed over time and experience.

[Moose Man]

It might be a given but I'd also see how holding at full draw for an extended time affects your shot. I found that if I really push the limits I dropped my bow arm at the shot.

While I'm not into it myself, I also see some people anchoring with their thumb behind their neck. Should help a bit.