i don’t want to be another yodeler!

[simplelife]

Hey folks, I’m new to this site and new to elk hunting for that matter. I’ll be headed to Wyoming from sept 22-28 for my first elk hunt. I’m jumping into the deep into the pool and going DIY, solo, spike camping, and can only scout from my arm chair. I’d like to be as efficient as possible as I try to locate them but I don’t want to be a nuisance, tooting away up and down the mountain. Do you have any rule of thumb (distance or time) that you wait between locator bugles? I guess another option is doing a cold calling set up, but if I commit an hour to each set up that could really eat into the hunt quickly.

many thanks!

[otcWill]

If you are where there are elk during those dates they oughta be bugling. Not really any need to go around locating as you will hear them. Pick the right spot and there won't be much use for locators. Definitely set up and do some of Paul's sequences once you find 'em. I usually only use locators to relocate bulls that have been on the move or to tell where they went when I lose track of 'em. Good luck! Elk hunting is one of the greatest natural highs that life has to offer!

[Broken arrow]

From my one and only scouting trip I am a rookie and i give this advice. Get the wind in your face look for fresh sign that's when I might think about calling. If you can smell them you are getting close setup or still hunt very very slowly. Although I could smell them they were several hundred yards away before I saw them. Other than that I'm no help.

[Swede]

Do you have good elk sign in the area? When making location calls I am trying to hear if there is anything out there that will respond. If I get a response, I wait a little before I call again. If the bull is closer then move to where you can set up while he searches for you. Usually they just answer, so after you determine they are just being sociable, then you go to them. If you make a location call and get no answer, wait a few minutes (3-5) then call again. While there it is a good idea to do a little raking on a tree with a heavy branch trying to mimic a bull. I am an advocate of patience, so if I don't get a response, I just move a few yards, set up and wait quietly hoping something will come quietly. After about 15 minutes I will slip back to where I first called from and call once more, then return to where I was waiting. Always select a place where the bull has to come close before he can identify what called. Try to avoid areas where he can get behind you and down wind. I usually wait 45 minutes to an hour. I hunt a heavily hunted area so I don't call a lot.

[simplelife]

Swede, I've never actually been to this area. I'm really trying to retrain my thinking beforehand. As a whitetail hunter, when the deer "move on"....that means they moved 1/4 mile to the "north 60"....probably a little different scale than what i'll be seeing in Wy. I've been look at the area through bing and google maps quite a bit and it ALL looks elky to me. Every meadow looks like feeding areas, every north slope looks like potential bedding areas, so i really have little faith in where i'll find them until I actually find them. That is why i want to be able to cover as much ground as efficiently as possible before committing to set ups. thanks for the help guys.

[wapitibowman]

If you are able, glass your brains out. It is much easier to hunt elk you know are there. Let the glass do your walking. Stay for hours checking out the terrain. Elk are very mobile animals and will appear magically in a meadow you have checked over and over for the past hour. You cannot always rely on vocal elk but your eyes will never lie. If you are unable to glass, all of the above mentioned strategies would be good. Cover some ground. Look into Paul's "cold calling setups".

Wapitibowman

[Swede]

When I hear or read of a yodeler, I am reminded of the cold callers who hunt my area. They take off on a hunt and call about every 100 yards. Each time they stop, they bugle two or three times then move and call again. Some even call from an ATV or their truck. They don't pay attention to set up or wind. They are just waiting to hear a bull bugle back at them so they can give chase. These hunters are yodelers. It does not take long each season for the vast majority of elk to head to a nice safe ranch so they can gat away from these people. While in my tree stand, I have seen elk at different times running away from yodelers. I was working a bull when it got close to a road. At that point a threesome of bow hunters, drove up and saw what was going. Immediately they bailed out of the back end and the seat of their pickup and started calling. Game over.
Understand, I am very conservative in my calling.
As stated above Paul has some excellent cold calling recommendations. If you have no idea if there is an elk within five miles, and it is ok to call and pass by silent elk, that may come to your call, then I would go on yodeling through the forest. Your objective then is to determine if elk are in the area. When you know elk are around, either by visual confirmation, evidence from fresh sign, smell, etc, then slow down and hunt more cautiously. Be patient until it is time to spring into action.
I know skilled hunters and I know hard hunters who only occasionally get anyhting. I believe the greatest advantage I have over the vast majority of them is patience and persistance. There is no substitute for patience and persistance. In the end it is deadly.

[mongopino915]

I really like what Swede has stated.

You do not need to hear elk to know that there are elk in the surrounding area. Let the elk dictate your calling. Yes, elk are very social animal and at times will sound off loudly but at times can be very quiet, in particular in heavily hunted areas. Know the elk mood and plan your calling or lack of calling accordingly. Elk can find one another during the rut, either sounding off loudly like a yodeler or quietly using very soft chuckles or low volume bugle/squeel that most human could not hear beyond 100 yards. Similarly, cow elk mews/chirps are also soft and seldom heard beyond 100 yards. Elk have incredible hearing and they use well, both to get away from the yodeler (both human and real elk) and to find each other. I truly believe in being stealth and sounding as realistic as possible. My favorite call to use when I know/feel that elk are within the surrounding area is 1 - 2 soft cow mews and not another sound for a good 30 - 45 minutes.

In my experience in hunting pressured public land, bulls are more likely to come in silently then vocally.

Patience and persistence, combined with a nothing more than 1 - 2 soft cow mews will kill a lot of bulls.

[Sean_TeamNWHunting]

Dear Simplelife:

I don't know how new you are to solo DIY hunting, please forgive me if my advice is already realized. I would suggest that you spend some time DIY soloing over the summer in preparation for your hunt. That way when you arrive in Wyoming, you can focus on locating Elk rather than worrying about survival. When I first started DIY soloing, I discovered there was a lot to learn before I could even begin to start focusing on the game I was pursuing. I agree with the previous posts, use Elknut strategies to locate bulls, but also talk to game biologists to gather general information on elk numbers and best places to hunt within your area. Wyoming caters to hunters, biologists are usually very willing to share information from my experiences. Hunters provide a great deal of revenue for their state every year, they want hunters to be happy. Good luck on your adventure. Elk hunting can be the most rewarding and frustrating experience of your life. They are incredibly challenging animals to hunt. Happy hunting!!!

[Jaquomo]

"Some even call from an ATV or their truck."

Hey, Swede, be gentle! Once my hunting partner and I were riding our ATVs in to where we launch to start hiking, and I noticed he wasn't behind me. I stopped to wait for him, shut off my motor, and heard a bugle up on the ridge. Just for kicks I answered and he answered back and started coming. When my partner appeared around the corner I gave him the "quiet" sign and he coasted up beside me.

Right then the bull bugled again from about 100 yards away, behind a patch of spruces. I still had time to hunt but Tom's time was running out, and when he saw the nice 5x6 he decided he was going to shoot him. He hid behind our red ATVs while I crawled back a ways to try to call him into bow range. It worked, the bull came in to 25 yards of the four-wheelers, but Tom never had a clear shot at a good angle.

[Swede]

Jaquomo: You don't need to pay attention to me, especially on the pickup and ATV issue. It is just that I have this green eye syndrome; AKA envy. I can never get a bull or buck on a drive by shooting, and just can't stand to see others showing off that they can. I am glad your buddy did not get a shot at the 5x6. LOL

[JohnFitzgerald]

I'm a bugle chaser and probably ran by Swede's tree stand once or twice.

It doesn't help you to cold call or hunt in area's that don't hold elk. There may be viewers out there right now saying "duh John, what's your point?" The point is find the elk first before you invest any time. One of the first things I do when I get to the mountains is what I like to call bull cruising. From strategic peaks and locations, I locate bugle. Just depending on time of year and conditions we sometimes have to do this well after dark and very early in the morning. After locating bull(s) we then spend the time hunting that area. Strategy depends on a lot of factors like how hot the bull is or is the bull in the pre-rut stage. If the bull(s) shut down after first light, we usually work the area with cold call setups.

Remember that just because your in 4-6 miles deep, doesn't mean your going to encounter elk. Most hunters don't like going in that far so we save our bivy/spike hunts until after we've exhausted all of our "pickup/4 wheeler" hunts. If your in deep, and don't pick up a vocal bull after a couple days, switch to a different plan. Don't waste your entire season on an bivy/spike hunt in hopes to eventually hear a bull bugle. I've burned entire 10 day hunts on area's void of elk because I was only prepared for bivy/spike hunts.

In conclusion, two key points. Locate first and make sure your mobile.

Just my 2-cents, and worth nothing more.

[Indian Summer]

I completely disagree with John... his post was worth way more than 2 cents.

Although I know 99.9% of non-res hunters don't have the ability to go orient themselves in the mountains before going to hunt..... Seans post was worth at least 2 bucks! Remember this: To learn how to hunt anything in the mountains is to first learn how to live and travel in them.

Little tricks of the trade when it comes to camping and coming up with the plans to get from A t B effectively. 0ne common example: "0K man there they are.. let's haul ass down there and see if we can't get on them" As opposed to "Well, they're over there... we should run the contour (like the game trails do) staying on the same elevation and work our way around the head of this hole so they can't see or hear us busting through the bottom where the alders and blowdowns can bog us down"

I'm not talking about a hunt strategy... just about the thought process when determining which direction your next step is in. Mountain mentality. 0nce you have developed that you can as Sean put it " focus on locating Elk rather than worrying about survival". Something people often fail to think about while caught up in the fun subject which is "how do I find & kill elk" Great point and a great post Sean.

[Vanish]

It doesn't help you to cold call or hunt in area's that don't hold elk.

Had to highlight this one, because I feel if there was one big mistake I've made in cold calling, it is this one.

I could be wrong, but I don't think it is the smartest use of time to say: "Hey, we've walked a mile, let's sit down for an hour and try a cold calling setup."

There has to be a reason to try it. Maybe you've found some fresh droppings. Maybe a thrashed wallow, etc.

Disclaimer: As with anything, you could dumb luck into elk by randomly cold calling!

[cnelk]

An area barren of elk one day could be a gold mine the next...

But I also know of PERFECT elk habitat that is ALWAYS barren of elk...

No idea why that is...

[Swede]

I have found it interesting that some of the places I killed elk years ago are worthless to hunt now. I often have no explanation for why. Sometimes logging, fire, cattle grazing, hunters or other forest activities have changed the place, but sometines I just can't figure it out. The forest and elk country is constantly changing. I prefer to hunt the fringe areas, so the places I hunt are even more susceptable to change than others. When I scout, I look for sign of elk activity, and recently I have set out cameras to verify just what is in the area.

[simplelife]

Swede, your description of a yodeler is what im trying to avoid. I actually got the term from an old thread describing a hunt betewen teh elknut crew and Seminole. It was a great story but multiple times during their hunt there was a "yodeler" pushing the elk and all i kept thinking was "dont be that guy...dont be that guy...."

Sean_Team, thanks for bringing that back to focus as well. I'm familiar with my gear but still will do some trial runs camping this spring (meal prep,using gps, etc). As far as a mountain mentality....not sure what i can do there except keep replaying little tips like these so i'm one step closer for to it becoming instinctive instead of academic.

[Swede]

I agree with you Simplelife. The yodelers can get a response, but they almost never get an elk. They are just yodelers.

[>>>---WW---->]

Elk can yodel as well. This reminds me of many years ago when I ran into an elk that yodeled. You don't hear them very often but they can do it.

Anyhow, I had only been calling elk for two or three years and my theoy back then was to mock everthing the elk did. I didn't call a bunch of elk in back then but it sure did wonders for my calling ability. I soon found out that I could imitate just about any sound an elk made by mocking them.

Well, one day I got into a shouting match with a nice bull. We got to bugling back and forth to each other pretty hot and heavy. Finally he yodeled at me. Whoa! I never heard that one before. (A yodel is when they hit the hi note, drop it down and go back hi again) So, not to be out done, I answered him back with a double yodel. I had no idea what I was doing but it sure was fun trying to tick him off. Well, it worked! I saw him break out of the timber on the opposent side of the canyon and he was on the dead run heading to me on a string.

I was so excited, I shot him thru the ear and bounced it off his antler. He sure looked funny running away with that arrow flopping around in his ear. This was back in my early days as an elk hunter and just another story from my school of hard knocks.

You guys that are just getting into the game nowdays are so lucky to have all the information available to you on how to hunt. But as I look back on it, that learn by yourself/school of hard knocks sure was a fun way to go.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Swede, your description of a yodeler is what im trying to avoid. I actually got the term from an old thread describing a hunt betewen teh elknut crew and Seminole. It was a great story but multiple times during their hunt there was a "yodeler" pushing the elk and all i kept thinking was "dont be that guy...dont be that guy...."

Sean_Team, thanks for bringing that back to focus as well. I'm familiar with my gear but still will do some trial runs camping this spring (meal prep,using gps, etc). As far as a mountain mentality....not sure what i can do there except keep replaying little tips like these so i'm one step closer for to it becoming instinctive instead of academic.

If you want to avoid being a yodeler, then call with a purpose. Understand what you are saying and understand what sounds you expect to hear back. Yodelers call just to call and have no idea what they are asking or stating with their language. Just because someone calls a lot doesn't mean they're a yodeler. I call a lot, does this mean I am?

[mongopino915]

It would so cool to be the only yodeler in the elk wood in September. Would not mind teaching every elk to stay from my over calling.

[Swede]

John you make a good point. It is not mainly the amount of calling we do per se. Elk calling is far too complex to make it into a simple equation. Unless a person has exceptional training, every elk caller struggles and tries to figure out the critters. I have no idea how anyone, who does not live and spend a lot of time in elk country, ever could figure it out. I too have been a long time yodeler. I tried and used different calls and techniques to try to get shots at different elk. To be honest it was usually very frustrating. Only once in a while did things work out, but I could not make anything work consistently. Elknut's DVD, book and personal time have been a huge help. Still nothing works all of the time, but at least I have a plan and method for my calling. That is not yodeling. I thank Elknut for helping me understnad elk language and how to call them persuasively. He has stopped a lot of yodeling. Quite a bit of it was mine. If Paul can teach an old tree stand hunter, how to be a more effective caller, he can teach anyone.
I say with conviction; that there is no better teacher on effective elk calling techniques than Paul Medel. No one I have read and/or listened to is even close. If you don't want to waste a huge amout of time and money, stay with Paul.

[simplelife]

thanks for the input. I actually was listening to elknut on the way in to work this morning (usual routine...i sound like some strange turkey/elk hybrid...i've got a lot of practicing to do). I certainly want to be intentional on what i'm saying and will keep wearing out my playbook until i get as close as possible. When i started this thread, i think the scale of the country in particular was messing with my head. When i still-hunt for whitetail, i travel at a pace somewhere between a snail and a turtle. Thats not an option when we are talking in miles. But I do think i'm getting a better feel now. Dont commit to any area until you have confirmation of active elk be it hearing, seeing or smelling. Glassing and locating bugles can help expedite this. Once i've found elk, THEN i can switch gears and try different approaches such as cold calling.

[Swede]

Good luck Simplelife. Sometimes it is ok to yodel. If you don't know if there is anything around, and you are just trying to find out, they let out a yodel. I may be using the same word in two distinct and different ways when I think of yodeling. One is an intentional exploration, trying to see if you can pick up a response. Elknut does that with night calling. The other "yodeling", is the indiscriminate bugling and cow calling we hear every season by many hunters. You will be far ahead of many more experienced archers. Not only will you have a plan and purpose, but you will know what you are saying, and why you are making the call. Well, maybe that is not yodeling.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Sounds like you have a good starting plan. Good luck simplelife!

[Jaquomo]

I could write a book filled with stories I've been told by guys who stopped to eat a candy bar or lunch or just to rest in a random spot, popped off a couple bugles or cowcalls, and had bulls come in. Either they stand up to leave and the silent bull behind them runs off, or their bow is against a tree and they can't reach it without being busted.

Really...this has NEVER happened to me....

(Swede, this is a component of my "Stop the ATV, eat a candy bar, read a couple pages of Elknut's Playbook while aimlessly trying out strange sounds that can be produced with a diaphragm, and shoot an elk technique. The last P&Y bull I killed was at 7 yards, only about 30 yards from my parked ATV, where I was getting ready to drive back to camp for lunch. I was dead-tired and discouraged, sat on the ATV and let out a frustration bugle, got an answer, grabbed my recurve off the rack and scooted up to a little rise in time to see him coming fast. In less than two minutes I went from making up excuses about why I didn't kill an elk to having a big dead bull on the ground.)

Is it a good strategy? No, but if you DO do it, keep your bow ready and an arrow nocked.

Just sayin....

[Swede]

Jacuomo: You have not arrived in the realm of the true drive-by yodeler, until you can sit in a lawn chair, in the back of a pickup, with your bite and blow bugle in one hand, and drink in the other. In case you ever try this, remember You must also keep your bow close at your side, but not in hand, just in case you are spoted by a game warden before you see an elk. If you get good at this you will be able to set your drink in the cup holder, drop your bugle, grab the bow and shoot well within ten seconds. A good drive-by yodeler scores points for any hit on any animal regardless of where the hit is made or the shot distance.
The mother of one talented drive-by yodeler I know of, was able to cut the throad of a big buck on only his second arrow from 80 yards. His addage, like any good drive-by yodeler is "You can't kill em if you don't shoot." I have been informed, this guy really has another extra ordinary talent. He can do most of all the above using a spot light.

[ORelksniper]

Jacuomo: You have not arrived in the realm of the true drive-by yodeler, until you can sit in a lawn chair, in the back of a pickup, with your bite and blow bugle in one hand, and drink in the other. In case you ever try this, remember You must also keep your bow close at your side, but not in hand, just in case you are spoted by a game warden before you see an elk. If you get good at this you will be able to set your drink in the cup holder, drop your bugle, grab the bow and shoot well within ten seconds. A good drive-by yodeler scores points for any hit on any animal regardless of where the hit is made or the shot distance.
The mother of one talented drive-by yodeler I know of, was able to cut the throad of a big buck on only his second arrow from 80 yards. His addage, like any good drive-by yodeler is "You can't kill em if you don't shoot." I have been informed, this guy really has another extra ordinary talent. He can do most of all the above using a spot light.

Good one Swede. I think I've met that guy...or his brother...or his cousin. Best one I've seen was an old Chevy Blazer with big welded on platform in place of the front bumper. Two dune buggy seats were bolted onto the platform and occupied by two beer swilling yodelers. Elk hunting takes on a whole new style sometimes.

Didn't mean to divert the thread but Swede brought back memories.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Hey Swede, sounds like you've encountered some of my in-laws. LOL