BackCountry Camo Clothing?

[nobull]

Howdy All,
I haven't done much forum searching so I'm not sure if this subject has been hit yet. I'm looking at getting all new camo clothing for backcountry hunting. Are there any lines out there that you guy's have had success with? I've been using cotton becuase it's cheap and I don't care if the stuff rips and tears. We typically come out of the woods pretty beat up from brush. Wanting to get into some new stuff that's affordable but also tough. I've been looking at the Hunt Tech clothes made by Cabelas. Any thoughts out there? Much appreciated.

[foxvalley]

Anything but cotton! LOL.
I guess it depends on the country that you are hunting,sage,rocky,open,thick dark timber etc.We hunt thick dark timber,and my favorite for this type of terrain is mothwing mtn. mimicry. Our stuff is sitka,but they don't carry the mimicry pattern anymore,I believe Kryptec does at cabelas. Kryptek looks to be awesome stuff.

[ElkNut1]

I only used cotton type clothing for over 25 years, lord only knows how I survived. (grin) But these days there's a few decent companies out that you can pick & choose from to fill your hunting wardrobe. We've been using the Core 4 Element line lately, we've gotten every piece from camofire.com at a very reduced rate. If interested get their bottoms & top merino wool base-layers, they run aprox 75.00 for the two. Then consider the Element Pants & Assault Shirt, these two will run aprox 175.00. For aprox 225.00 you are ready to go with a good foundation. get some other poly/spandex mix light to midweight longsleeve shirts so you can layer between the merino wool base layer & Element outer camo shirt. Two of them will cover you for nearly any weather Sept brings. Your outer camo is water resistant but not waterproof. They will hold up well & offer you many years of service & not break the bank. This is a very good start!

ElkNut1

[ut1031]

Very good info provider by Paul! Core4 is hard to beat.......I would suggest their Switchback pants for the early season and layer underneath.
k

[MTLongdraw]

+1 more for Core 4. Paul turned me on to them a few weeks back. I checked into them and I think its close to Sitka and Kuiu at a reduced rate. Plus they still make Mountain Mimicry which I like. I've also compared there stuff to REI to see if it would be cheaper if you didn't car about camo and it wasn't. All of the stuff I wanted was about the same price if not cheaper from Core 4. From my experience their customer service is top knotch too.

[HurricaneHuge]

I've only used the First Lite base layers in the backcountry, but absolutely loved them. Merino is the only base layers I'll consider any more.

[foxvalley]

Thanks for the info on the core 4 stuff,can't wait to try the merino base layers,and great to see core 4 has my favorite camo, mtn mimicry.Spent all last fall trying to pull my base layer up and out of my... after the elastic waist failed.

[Vanish]

One mistake, in my opinion, I see when people buy camo is getting a pattern that is too dark. When you are in the woods, things can look dark. That is because of so many shadows. Those same shadows fall on you and your camo, making you darker. When you're already wearing a dark camo, add in the real shadows and now you stand out because you are so much darker than your surroundings.

That's why I like a pattern like NatGear. HOWEVER, I often wear light solid pants. I find a good pair of synthetic hiking pants more versatile and cheaper than high end camo. I'm no pro, though!

[ORelksniper]

Vanish, that's a great point. One I thought about making so I'm glad you brought it up. IMO many modern camo patterns are designed to attract the eye of consumers and their $$$ rather than provide total concealment. Sticks and leaves look pretty printed on fabric but in the shadows the subtle color changes blend together to create a dark blob. Just the opinions of an "old school" hunter trained in the art of concealment and other pointless stuff.

[foxvalley]

My brother in law and I do a lot of experimentation with our camo in the dark timber,and you guys are right on, the trend we see is alot of camo is to dark,or blobs.We will wear 2 different camo patterns,or will wear a different top than the bottom,we will still hunt just within eyeshot of one another,and observe the results. The guy in the back observes the one in front,and if the guy in front dissapears the second he stops,and the only way to see him again is if he moves,all is good. I'ts amazing how a bare hand, or the back of the neck ,or a white tag sticking out of a shirt sticks out. Some camo we tried is so dark, the hunter looks like an upright black bear.Havn't tried nat gear,but sounds like it works. The best so far for us in our area is mtn mimicry.

[nobull]

Thanks for the insight guys. The core 4 stuff looks pretty legit. I hunt western Washington in the thick green brushy timber. Just curious what your recommendation would be for camom pattern. Mountain mimicry or the max? I'm thinking both should work fine.

[foxvalley]

Thanks for the insight guys. The core 4 stuff looks pretty legit. I hunt western Washington in the thick green brushy timber. Just curious what your recommendation would be for camom pattern. Mountain mimicry or the max? I'm thinking both should work fine.

I hunt next to you in the panhandle,nobull,same stuff, all dark, thick,steep, and did I mention "dark" I checked out the Max online,and I'm taking vanishes word for it, and going to try this pattern just for stinks and giggles.I'm sure both will work.Another pattern that works where we are, believe it or not, is realtree AP.
On the flip side,In our observations,you could be dressed in a "black bear suit" and still dissapear if next to a dark tree or in a shadow.The tiniest little movement,however,even one finger at 50 yds. on a still day,will catch the eye,Have you seen how big elks eyes are???? They are 20 times more sensitive to movement than we are. I would rather be dressed in the worst camo,and move at the RIGHT time,than vise a versa.

[buglmin]

When it comes to camo, nothing works like ASAT. The ASAT pattern works everywhere, from the juniper flats of NM to the high country of Colorado. We use it exclusivly. And it works in the wide open meadows to the very dark timber on the north slope. Because oft he design of ASAT, it can never be brighter then the surroundings. The design bends light, and seeing is believing. Go to ASAT.com and look at the field pictures and watch the video explaining ASAT.
With that being said, clothing made by First Lite is some of the best we've used. My Sitka and Kuiu now stay in the plastic tote while my First Lite is used almost every day from August through late elk hunts in December. Because of my body structure, I have to wear more clothing to stay warm, and with First Lite, I dont have to put on as many layers to stay warm.
Dont skip on clothing, buy the best you can afford, it could some day save your life. A storm in the high country aint the best place to find your clothing doesnt cut it.

[foxvalley]

buglmin, I have to agree,ASAT always worked good for me, even in a tree stand, and it's been tried and true for a long time.I have a great set of ASAT fleece I purchased about 20 years ago from kathy kelly,that is about 2 sizes...... ok.....5 sizes to small,that I really need to replace.

[buglmin]

I was an ASAT dealer for over 8 years, sold a lot of sets of camo. ASAT is he best camo on the market, hands down. No other camo breaks up the human outline like ASAT, no other camo works in so many different enviroments, from the east to the west. No other camo can absorb or reflect the light like ASAT. I encourage all the guys that hunt with me to wear ASAT. Go to the web page and watch the demo video of ASAT in the field.

[HurricaneHuge]

Being the first year I've used ASAT I would agree that it does a lot for breaking up an outline. I didn't get a chance to test it in a Treestand, but will be moreso next year. Especially on ridges after leaves drop. I sit high and being in with branches and sky for a backdrop will be lethal.

[Broken arrow]

I use a mix of camo and solid colors I kinda feel like it breaks up the human outline. Mostly first lite and core 4 for me.

[nobull]

So I checked out first lite. The Kanabs look pretty sweet. My only concern is getting too hot during the early season. Does anyone have the kanabs? Also, the cargo pockets seem to be positioned higher up on the leg and over the quadricep. I would think this style would become annoying with items inside the cargo pocket while trekking steep terrain, however it would be nice not having to reach down as far as you would with conventional style cargo pants to retrieve items.

[FemoralArchery]

Asat camo bends light.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Best camo? Maybe.
Optical illusion? Possibly.
Bends light? You can't be serious.

[foxvalley]

Asat camo bends light.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Best camo? Maybe.
Optical illusion? Possibly.
Bends light? You can't be serious.

Femoral,You need to get with the program,didn't you know that's the camo that "predator" uses?

The only product that I know that "bends light" is the reflective mirror ground blind

[FemoralArchery]

fox, I had some of the "predator" stuff, but the elk kept covering themselves in mud and I couldn't find them.

[foxvalley]

LOL!!!

[HurricaneHuge]

I've used the Kanabs. Love them. I tested them outside July 4th. It was 105 degrees. I was still comfortable, though wasn't overly active. I did wear them in Colorado this fall in 80 degrees with a 100 lbs. on my back. Comfortable as could be. I don't over stuff my cargo pockets, but never noticed discomfort in that area.

[buglmin]

Yes, the shape and design of the pattern in ASAT bends the light, that is why ASAT can never be brighter then the surroundings. Tell you what formal artery, I still have my demo DVD, why dont you let me send it to you so you can see and understand before you make such outragous outbursts. I've told everyone here to go to the ASAT site, and see and watch for yourself. So, send me your address and I'll be happy to send you the DVD.
No other camo on the market today does what ASAT does in any enviroment. And its the shape and design of the pattern that does that. The design doesnt allow the eye to stay focused in one area, it makes the eye move. Have you used ASAT, or been around anyone that used ASAT? Have you any experience with ASAT? If not, maybe you should look into things before you start saying thing...I look forward to recieving your address...Anthony

[cnelk]

LIght doesn't bend or curve. It only goes in straight lines, But you can change its direction with a shiny surface by reflection.

Another way to change its path is to pass it from one transparent medium to another with a different molecular structure.
The change in path as it moves from one medium to to another is called refraction.

Physics boys...

[FemoralArchery]

DSC00099[1].JPG (239.68 KiB) Viewed 58932 times

Here's my buddy wearing some ASAT. I said I like the camo, I just don't buy the sales pitch. It also appears to be darker than the background... Must be the faulty camera.

[FemoralArchery]

Now, I'm no physics major. I never even went to college. I did however learn enough about physics to operate a nuclear reactor. And operate it I did. I assure you that you are the one that is talking about something without knowing enough to do so.

Camoflauge is nothing more than a pattern designed to blend into or mimic closely the background. All camo is trying to do this. Sometimes it does a very good job, sometimes it does not. You are buying into a sales pitch. All camos have a sales pitch. Have you ever seen snow camo advertised by showing a picture of it in the green swamps of the south? Have you ever seen green realtree camo advertised as working great in the yellow cheatgrass flats of the west? No, advertisers aren't going to show you something that won't work. They WILL do or say just about anything to sell product, that is there job, that is how they make a living.

Asat is designed to blend into the background, where other camos, MAX1 for example is trying to exactly mimic the background. MAX1 works great when you are standing in the sagebrush, providing the sagebrush is 6' tall. ASAT is designed to blend into anything it can. It is a time proven design. It works great at blending, it does not bend light with its magical shapes and colors.

In the picture, my buddy is wearing a First Lite ASAT camo shirt. He killed this bull. My dad is also in the picture, he's wearing a $9 cotton tshirt with some kind of sagebrush camo on it. Guess what, my dad has killed 4 bulls with 4 tags in 3 years. His first 3 years of archery hunting. He wore the same cotton cheap camo and he's more successful than just about every bowhunter out there. I asked him why he wears camo at all, his reply, "I don't want people to see me, I'm not worried about the animals."

[foxvalley]

Right On Femoral Archery. I would rather be dressed in the worst camo,and move at the right time,than vise a versa.
Bending light,really, totally ridiculous.ASAT works because of it's extreme contrast between light and dark,and the dark branch like shapes, thus breaking up the human outline. It does NOT bend light,does NOT render the human invisable,and you WILL be seen in this camo if you move at the wrong time.
I think it's way more important to use todays high tech fabrics,that not only dry super fast,but wick moisture away from the body in the extreme temp. fluctuations that we go thru every day during elk hunting.

[buglmin]

Light bends when it hits objects, some objects reflect it, some objects absorb it. I've had guys wearing Max1 camo that doesnt even blend into the juniper and sage of sage NM.
You guys need to look into the camo pattern and shape the army announced last fall, and the reasons why they are going to that design and pattern
A good camo pattern doesnt mimic the backgound, it changes the human silloute. Thats why certain patterns, mossy oak, real tree, blob together and appear dark. A good camo pattern doesnt let the eyes focus on an area, it makes the eyes move over the pattern.
Now, lets talk bout the picture...the shirt your dad is wearing is old and faded, the ASAT stuff isnt old and isnt faded. You cant tell me the stuff your dad is wearing is brand new. Faded clothes are just that, faded. My old faded ASAT is more white then tan on the background. Why didnt you take a picture of the ASAT and your dad wearing a new shirt? Thats a bad example and a bad way to compare camo...

We've been caught red handed on huge sage flats by elk, had bulls come in behind us, stand there 20 yards away, and yet weve been able to turn around and kill the bull. We've had bulls come in behind us while in aspens, and yet, in plain sight, have been able to turn around and kill thm. You boys really ned to look into something before you start critizing it...dont forget to look into the armys new camo pattern and read why they are changing to it...

[cnelk]

As good as ASAT sounds why didn't the ARMY just use that?

Maybe they didn't have the DVD....

[>>>---WW---->]

If cotton kills, I must have been one of those walking Zombi things for the past 60+ years. Either that or I'm just smart enough to know when to put the raingear on.

And when it comes to comparing pictures of verious types of camo, I just focus on any corner of the picture and notice which pattern shows up the most in my periphial (sp) vison. In the picture above that has everyone talking about, those black stripes in the ASAT really stand out. OK, so they may break up your outline, but they still attract your attention

Zebras are black and white. Supposedly that makes for good camo. But just ask any lion, that had one for lunch today, how good the stripes work!

[FemoralArchery]

That was a picture to show you that I have, in fact, been around ASAT. I pointed out that its darker than the background, because you said its impossible for it to be darker than its surroundings.

I mentioned the old, worn out camo my dad is wearing to show that you don't need the latest and greatest to be successful.

This picture wasn't taken to compare camo. I don't wear special camo for pictures. How is this not a good way to compare the camo that you are a big fan of, and some old crappy stuff that no one likes? That should be a walk in the park for ASAT, ASAT should win every time, regardless of what its compared to.

I looked at the website. I watched their commercial and looked at all the pictures. It shows nothing but when the camo works. I could show you a hundred pictures of it not working. If this was really the greatest camo out there, nothing else would stand a chance.

I find it hard to believe that you still buy this light bending nonsense. You abandoned your "different planes" argument about the single edge broadheads pretty quickly. I understand, though, if I fell for this and someone called me out, I'd be pretty embarrassed, too.

[Herb]

nobull,

A good option that won't break the bank is the Cabelas Outfitter Camo in Microtex fabric, doesn't fade, got 14 years on mine, still going.

[foxvalley]

[quote=">>>---WW---->"]If cotton kills, I must have been one of those walking Zombi things for the past 60+ years. Either that or I'm just smart enough to know when to put the raingear on.

Lol WW! You must not sweat! I remember the days of all cotton,Yikes! I remember freezing my ..... off when I got wet. Sounds like Paul also wore cotton forever,he would be a good one to ask what he thinks about core 4 and first lite. My outdated, "high tech" base layers are shot,and I am looking soooo forward to the new wool stuff from first lite.

[foxvalley]

Femoral Archery?

I know this might not be the right time to ask you this,but you seem like a smart guy,and I need your help.
I just got my new pair of skivies from S.M. surplus.com, and I'm flying faster than a speeding bullet,and jumping higher than a 10 story building,I get all that,but what I don't get is why my wife is now cooking me all my favorite meals,with this little smirk on her face,mumbling something about a ...........jackhammer????? The only time I have seen her this happy,is before we got married,and I don't want to screw this up. Please Help.

[FemoralArchery]

Are they ASAT skivies?

[>>>---WW---->]

Sounds like the new Viagra re-enforced skivies to me. LOL!

[foxvalley]

Are they ASAT skivies?

How'd you know???

[foxvalley]

Sounds like the new Viagra re-enforced skivies to me. LOL!

I was wondering what the "V" meant next to the "S". Thanks WW.

[FemoralArchery]

I just went on first lite and ordered $420 dollars worth of their ASAT boxer shorts. That's one pair for every day of the week!! I don't ever want to run out of these things. Thanks fox, you changed my life.

[foxvalley]

I just went on first lite and ordered $420 dollars worth of their ASAT boxer shorts. That's one pair for every day of the week!! I don't ever want to run out of these things. Thanks fox, you changed my life.

I feel sorry for your wife.

[FemoralArchery]

I just went on first lite and ordered $420 dollars worth of their ASAT boxer shorts. That's one pair for every day of the week!! I don't ever want to run out of these things. Thanks fox, you changed my life.

I feel sorry for your wife.

Your concern is greatly appreciated, but won't be needed. I seem to have set them down somewhere and they just sort of disappeared. Its like they were invisible or something.

[foxvalley]

Don't worry, they're still there, the light is just bending around them.

I'm starting to feel offended............hear that?................nothing but crickets.

[FemoralArchery]

Ya, I'll probably trip over them just like all my kids' damn legos hiding on the floor in the dark.

I do, I do hear some crickets. I'm a little sad now, maybe next time I will argue slower and use smaller words to make it last longer.

[dotman]

Fyi... Killer sale on Kryptek ay Cabelas currently.

[foxvalley]

Fyi... Killer sale on Kryptek ay Cabelas currently.

Just checked it out WOW! Sizes are extemly limited, but the savings are huge!

[bowhunterty]

Have to throw out my opinion. Last two years have used Sitka Open Country. Worked awesome. 2011walked right at the bullI shot to get a few extra yards. Just watched me. And last years bull didn't even know I was there. Have a buddy that uses it and he has the same luck. He has put down two cows in two years. I have used the Ascent pants even to climb St Helens in the lava rocks and didn't tear them. While everyone elses put holes in their pants. It is spendy but I usually buy mine now when most stores sale it for 20% off and no shipping.

[foxvalley]

I have to agree, the ascent pants are great. It's kind of a weird fabric,but it sure does a good job of shedding water,breathable, and tough.

[BadgerStateBugler]

I was a true fan of under armour and similar type base layers.....Until I went on a hike with a badlands shirt that claimed to be a scent free shirt. That baby stunk so bad after a days hike I couldn't stand the scent of myself. When I got home I threw it in my hunting clothes laundry pile and forgot about it until spring. When I finally got around to doing that laundry 4 months later, it still smelled just as bad as I had remembered. I knew then I had to find a better baselayer....
I had read great things about merino baselayers, but I wasn't buying into it until I wore the same C4E 1/4zip merino top all summer push mowing once a week for two hours per mow, without a single wash until hunting season.....NO FOUL ODORS!!! My buddies would all laugh at me because I would wear my eberlestock pack loaded with 55-80lbs of Olympic weights, so it goes without saying I was sweating pretty darn bad. Merino is great stuff, I now have socks, boxers, top and bottom long underwear. In my opinion it is the best baselayer fabric, hands down

[pointysticks]

camo is such a subjective topic.

i still think no matter what we think we look like, we would never ever be positive on how it affect's any game animal's vision.

cotton? i still LOVE my predator green camo pants. cotton like carrhart jeans. super tough and they are my go-to pants for the AZ desert. the terrain would shred any of my more boutique-y pants from the higher end companies.

i really love the Predator patterns. i was sold when i was talking to my friend on the walkie talky. he was trying to get me to hike to him. he was saying, "you're facing me, you dont see me waving?". it was so hard to find him. when i did, if he sat still he would vanish and i would forget where he was. it was amazing. i went into town and bought a shirt and a pair of pants, hoping to get next to a Couse deer.

nowadays, there are some very good camo choices. almost too many

[Indian Summer]

X2 on that post Badger. Under Armour stinks!!!! It seems to evaporate the water and hold onto everything else.

So like you I went to merino. I have both Sitka and Core 4 Element merino. I have the same zip T that you used in black. After days I was sniffing the thing in disbelief. Zero odor and I'd been sweating like Phantom when his wife asks him where he's been. I love it. Plus now that I know I can get so many days out of one set of base layers I don't have to pack as many sets so I can travel lighter. I'm a huge merino wool fan. But I will say the Sitka has a higher thread count (and price of course) so it is smoother and more comfortable. But there's not a thing wrong with that C4E either. I have several of those tops.

[Lefty]

IZebras are black and white. Supposedly that makes for good camo. But just ask any lion, that had one for lunch today, how good the stripes work!

Dont take this wrong The biologist leaking out
Zebra stripes are meant to cause confusion while running in herds, Tiger stripes are camo