The Greatest Elk Hunter

[Swede]

How do you measure the quality of an elk hunter? I am going to give you some ways to put a tape measure on your hunters so you can rely.
1. Number of elk killed
2. Average number of days it takes a hunter to kill a legal elk.
3. Number of B&C or P&Y bulls killed.
4. The success the hunter has beyond the average for the hunting unit. E.g. Joe kills a bull every three years on a 10% average success unit.
5. The hunter killed nothing but came home happy.

There are more ways to measure the quality of a hunter such as adherence to the law and common courtesy, or how exclusive a hunter is in selecting a suitable animal.

So, for the sake of discussion, what do you think?

BTW: Just for fun, I am planning to argue against whatever you decide.

[Tigger]

#3 is hogwash. Many areas do not even have a B&C or P&Y bull. You can only shoot what is there. One guy gets a limited entry tag, guided on private and there are P&Y bulls everywhere and he does everything wrong but lucks into a bull barely over P&Y and yet he is somehow better than a guy who shoots the biggest bull in his whole area, but it is just shy of P&Y?

So much is dependent on the abundance or scarcity of elk in the area the person can hunt that harvest metrics are a minor part of the equation. Private or public? Guided or not?

[saddlesore]

Wish I Knew. I spent almost 60 years trying to figure it out and retired my elk hunting career still scratching my head. Thankful there were always a few really stupid elk.

1. Number of elk killed
Obviously if a person lives near a good hunt area or lives on it and knows it well, they will kill more often than a nonresident that only hunts every 3-4 years.

2. Average number of days it takes a hunter to kill a legal elk.
How many times do we see a guy on his first elk hunt kill a humongous bull on the first day and very good hunter eat tag soup after hunting the entire season.

3. Number of B&C or P&Y bulls killed.
Very few kill them unless on a paid hunt on a private land managed for quality of bulls costing $10K +

4. The success the hunter has beyond the average for the hunting unit. E.g. Joe kills a bull every three years on a 10% average success unit.
I see landowners with a resident elk herd kill one every year.

5. The hunter killed nothing but came home happy.
I came home not happy many times. Mostly because the season ended.

[Swede]

You characters crack me up. You are right on in your assessment. I knew a family that consistently killed several bulls the first morning of rifle season every year. They had an alfalfa field and shot several bulls from their barn or yard very near first light. They had no reason to be good hunters. The elk were in their field every day until they shot and killed several of them. A world champion elk caller might have problems hunting many OTC or easy draw units here in Oregon, while a first-time elk hunting friend could come and just sit in the caller's tree stand and get a good bull there.
I prefer to think about experience, but that is no exact measure either.

[Tigger]

Swede I think you are enjoying your Egg Nog too much already!

But speaking of Egg Nog, Happy Holidays to all of your miscreants, knuckleheads, and fellow elk hunters!

[>>>---WW---->]

Swede, I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as (The Greatest Elk Hunter). Beware of anyone how claims to be great or even good for that matter. Usually they are the ones that are trying to sell you a bill of goods. They make their living selling products, doing seminars, guiding or outfitting hunts.

I would venture to say that 95% of successful trophy elk hunters do it in one of two ways. (1) They pay big bucks for a guide to take them out and all they have to do is pull the trigger and claim the glory. Or, (2) Just pure blind arse luck.

Some hunters are better than others because they have put in the time to learn the ways of the elk. But in reality the very most successful ones are the farmers and ranchers who have fed their families for generations on deer and elk meat by just looking out the kitchen window and stepping out on the back porch and shooting them as they happen by.

[WapitiTalk1]

Good thread gentlemen, please continue.

[Elkhunttoo]

The Greatest Elk Hunter ever is my dad and his brothers (my uncle’s)… when I was a little kid I looked up to them so much. I just had to be around when they would leave to go hunting. I loved helping them pack and get ready to go. And then was so sad that I couldn’t go with them for the week. They would take horses and pack in several miles.

It didn’t matter to me if it was a cow or a bull when they would get home. For that matter a doe or a buck either. I just couldn’t wait for them to get back and hear the stories and dream about when I would finally get to go.

Over the years this group of my “hunting hero’s” have taken several trophy quality animals. Yet, I don’t think any of that matter to me when I was a kid. In my little boy eyes, This group in my family is the greatest group of hunters that ever lived

Now I’m 43 and they are still the greatest group of hunters I know.

[Elkhunttoo]

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My brothers with a deer and an elk kill while hunting with my dad (who is the photographer) in around 1988-90…not sure the exact year but has to be right about there

[Lefty]

BTW: Just for fun, I am planning to argue against whatever you decide.

Ive decided that if you hunt from a tree,,,,,,

Alway got a kick out of Wells
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDQN16bm_hQ

[Swede]

Maybe, just maybe we look at the question all wrong. In my mind, the way we hunt or the equipment we hunt with does not make anyone else the greatest elk hunter. Bow or rifle equipment does not matter. Calling with a diaphragm and grunt tube or sitting over a water hole in a tree does not make anyone the r=greatest. Maybe, just maybe the greatest elk hunter is the one that passes along their knowledge and love for the hunt to others. Maybe, just maybe you can be the greatest elk hunter at least to someone.
Merry Christmas!

[Lefty]

Lets make a little change in verbiage!!!
What makes an elk hunter great!!! or what specifics make an elk hunter better!

Maybe the ability is profienecy in your weapon of choice!
Understanding elk in general
Understanding specifics of elk or individual elk
Knowledge of general and specific elk movement,,,,,,,,,

[RanchoSueno]

I think what makes the best elk hunter is the willingness to adapt on the fly and the discipline to stay after them. Perseverance. It's easy to quit and take the day to rest at camp when the going gets tough

[Elkhunttoo]

Maybe, just maybe we look at the question all wrong. In my mind, the way we hunt or the equipment we hunt with does not make anyone else the greatest elk hunter. Bow or rifle equipment does not matter. Calling with a diaphragm and grunt tube or sitting over a water hole in a tree does not make anyone the r=greatest. Maybe, just maybe the greatest elk hunter is the one that passes along their knowledge and love for the hunt to others. Maybe, just maybe you can be the greatest elk hunter at least to someone.
Merry Christmas!

Maybe elk hunting doesn’t come from a store

Merry Christmas to all

[Indian Summer]

Multifaceted question. I’ll take a crack at it. I’ll skip the word greatest because it just doesn’t belong here. Two words, elk and Hunter. To be an elk hunter, you have to hunt meaning you’re not a rancher looking out the window and resting your gun on the window sill. And you have to kill elk. Otherwise, you’re not really much of a hunter.

You might rack up all kinds of great memories, but you’re not an elk hunter until you find elk on your own. I will rule out private land elk hunting because it is the same as deer hunting. Someone who has only hunted elk on private land wouldn’t know where to begin on public. To me elk hunting is 100% public land fair chase.

For me, the word consistency comes to mind. That means you can make it happen year after year in any conditions no matter where you go.

The size of the bulls you kill is meaningless. I’m sure if we all hunted somewhere like Arizona and were able to get licenses we would kill bigger bulls.

The number of days it takes to kill an elk doesn’t mean anything either. If you kill an elk on the first day, it might mean you’ve done your homework. It might also mean you just caught them off guard. If you kill an elk on the last day, it means you didn’t give up. But neither is the measure of a man.

The number of elk killed doesn’t mean much to me either. Not everyone is able to hunt every year. Some people have been at it longer than others.

For me, the word consistency comes to mind. There are so many variables in elk hunting. He or she can get it done more often than not in different areas and all kinds of conditions. He is adaptable. He is persistent. To me and accomplished elk hunter Is one who has learned enough about elk, about the mountains, and about himself to end up with more punched tags than unpunched tags. I don’t know about great, but that is a true blue elk hunter. The only thing I will add is that if you live in the state where you hunt it sure is easier. But there are definitely plenty of non-resident hunters who out hunt locals year in and year out. That just goes to show that success comes from within.

[>>>---WW---->]

I vote for Swede as the worlds greatest elk hunter! Now if the rest of you will cast your ballot for Swede,
he won't have any more excuses to be jealous of the rest of us.

[Lefty]

ballot for Swede,

to be jealous of the rest of us.

I'm kind of jealous: I don't belong in trees ( or above the ground more than a12 inches.)
However I might go to the dark side next year. Een ask the tree stand hunters for help.


Swede: maybe this belongs on the tree stand hunting threads Im thinking of hunting out of an elevated stand next year

[Indian Summer]

Vote… Swede for GOAT! Death from above! The guy has forgotten more than most people know. Legend!

[Swede]

Ascribing greatness to the elk hunting Swede is like comparing his driving to the grocery store to the likes of Dale Earnhart at Talladega International Raceway. On second thought maybe I better come up with a better analogy. You probably have not seen the traffic I deal with on highway 30.

[>>>---WW---->]

If the traffic is too rough for you on Hwy 30, you can always ride your E-bike on the sidewalk.

[juglow]

I think everyone bounces around "number of elk killed." I feel that if a hunter is consistent in this year area year after year on public ground, any elk tag, that it is the best barometer in measuring a great elk hunter. Albeit, keeping ability to get a tag in mind.
I would add...with archery equipment...lol. turning up elk under glass and moving in with a gun is a different ball game than knowing the elk, there habits, next moves and language as an archery hunter. I believe the greatest hunters also mentor and teach others...Paul Medal comes to mind for me...he has taught me and thouosands of other, i am sure, so much about hunting elk and I've never met him (wish I could lol).

Another that comes to mind is Casey Brooks. i would put him up there as the GOAT along side Paul...not because he has a pending world record but he has the family history and personal portfolio to back it.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/cas ... 20Jan.%202.

[Swede]

There are excellent elk hunters out there and we can learn a lot from them, but you can also closely follow their advice and come away very disappointed. To be a great elk hunter you must know the area you hunt and the elk that live there. The elk you hunt have learned to survive where they live. If you follow an "expert", you are most likely applying his elk hunting tactics to a place he has never seen success. They have some good elk hunting skills, but you need to learn to hunt your location.
Elknut (Paul Medel) is a great elk hunter, and he has helped more people than anyone I know of, but don't forget what I wrote above. If you follow just his advice, you will likely get very frustrated and believe You are doing something wrong. You are just applying his tactics to the wrong place.

[saddlesore]

There are excellent elk hunters out there and we can learn a lot from them, but you can also closely follow their advice and come away very disappointed. To be a great elk hunter you must know the area you hunt and the elk that live there. The elk you hunt have learned to survive where they live. If you follow an "expert", you are most likely applying his elk hunting tactics to a place he has never seen success. They have some good elk hunting skills, but you need to learn to hunt your location.
Elknut (Paul Medel) is a great elk hunter, and he has helped more people than anyone I know of, but don't forget what I wrote above. If you follow just his advice, you will likely get very frustrated and believe You are doing something wrong. You are just applying his tactics to the wrong place.

Excellent post.I have been trying to tell that to hunters for years. Elk do not read the rule books.

[Indian Summer]

I can remember some late night phone conversations with Paul. Once we’d get started we’d go on forever. Two elk nuts! My wife would say honey it’s 12:30 you better get to bed. He’s on mountain time! Haha! No wait…. Pacific time!

[RanchoSueno]

I think everyone bounces around "number of elk killed." I feel that if a hunter is consistent in this year area year after year on public ground, any elk tag, that it is the best barometer in measuring a great elk hunter. Albeit, keeping ability to get a tag in mind.
I would add...with archery equipment...lol. turning up elk under glass and moving in with a gun is a different ball game than knowing the elk, there habits, next moves and language as an archery hunter. I believe the greatest hunters also mentor and teach others...Paul Medal comes to mind for me...he has taught me and thouosands of other, i am sure, so much about hunting elk and I've never met him (wish I could lol).

Another that comes to mind is Casey Brooks. i would put him up there as the GOAT along side Paul...not because he has a pending world record but he has the family history and personal portfolio to back it.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/cas ... 20Jan.%202.

I don't really know much on his history but the recent "400 inch bull" was a town bull baited on to private property and a tresspass fee was exchanged for landlocked land... on a raffle tag. I give more credit to the easy access public land archer putting 300 inch bulls on the ground

[juglow]

Swede, I agree with everything you said.

[juglow]

I don't really know much on his history but the recent "400-inch bull" was a town bull baited on to private property and a tresspass fee was exchanged for landlocked land... on a raffle tag. I give more credit to the easy access public land archer putting 300 inch bulls on the ground

It would make sense that it was a "town bull" but to be baited onto land where he would be shootable will come out eventually as its illegal in Washington. Hope everything was done legal...time will tell.

[RanchoSueno]

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[7mmfan]

I don't really know much on his history but the recent "400-inch bull" was a town bull baited on to private property and a tresspass fee was exchanged for landlocked land... on a raffle tag. I give more credit to the easy access public land archer putting 300 inch bulls on the ground

It would make sense that it was a "town bull" but to be baited onto land where he would be shootable will come out eventually as its illegal in Washington. Hope everything was done legal...time will tell.

Baiting is not illegal in WA, just limits on how much bait can be placed. I have no dog in this fight, just saying, baiting here is perfectly legal.

[Swede]

I have no issue with any legal kill, but baiting elk is a timing matter.
Salt in the spring and early summer brings elk in. setting out food for elk when the snow piles up brings them in. Winter logging brings elk in to forage off the moss and lichens that grew on trees that have been felled. The elk come in to forage as soon as the loggers head home and then run them off when they return in the morning. Alfalfa fields bring elk in to forage in the evening and at night. If you have a valid tag and own the property or have permission, you can shoot one during hunting hours.

[RanchoSueno]

I wouldn't say I am against capitalizing on elk in opportune moments. It was more the "heroic" story the son painted a picture of for a "bought" elk. It is unattainable to 85% of the elk hunting community. 86 bulls in 45 years of hunting is not going to happen to the every day elk hunter with a normal budget and connections to the outdoor industry

[Indian Summer]

They should have a book called Records for Real People.

[Swede]

Joe, that is an interesting thought:
The trouble is that I don't think most "real people" have kept score. Plenty of very honest hunters don't have a picture of many of the animals they shot. Some kept antlers in the barn, but most had no barn. Many real hunters did not care if they or someone else in the family was the shooter. Observing a clear-cut, if they spotted a buck, they pointed it out for their kid to shoot. Some real hunters I know could spot a running animal at 100 yards and have it down within well under 10 seconds. It was often under 5 seconds.

Then there was another class of real people that were very effective hunters. They may or may not have commonly been often included in the group mentioned above. They were the ones that hunted to keep venison constantly on the table. They wasted no meat. You never heard them brag. Bow hunting to them would have been a joke. Often the antlers from their kills were left in the woods with the gut pile. They will enter no book, and they definitely did not want their picture in the paper. These men did not subscribe to hunting magazines, buy hunting books or get into any modern media, but they were very effective game killers. Once in a while they would take down an elk. They hunted alone and usually elk were too big for them to handle.
Sometimes I found the remains of their handiwork when I was out working for the Forest Service. Some I knew. Their rule was "don't get caught". Back in the early 1960s one told me that if he was ever fined and lost his rifle, it would bring his meat bill up to three cents per pound. Hunting was no sport or game for these hunters. It was their way of life. Love them or hate them, they knew their craft.

[Lefty]

They should have a book called Records for Real People.

There is: Some great memories, most never shared beyound family and friends, Horns nailed up in the barn,,, or hauled out to the bone yard.



I don't think I know a truly "meat only hunter" out there anymore. Where time, money spent Where the meat. is cheaper from the field.
Even a couple poor hillbillies likely have more into their poached game than planting another row of beans and keep the fox out of the hen house


I was talking with a friend yesterday about who was the greatest trapper ( because of this thread) he rattled off three trappers. Then he said no,,, maybe not, there is no way to compare one to another. His example led to Tom Mirandas book Master trapper'shttps://www.ebay.com/itm/184978412427?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=184978412427&targetid=2299003535955&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9029403&poi=&campaignid=21214315381&mkgroupid=161363866036&rlsatarget=pla-2299003535955&abcId=9407526&merchantid=5355698644&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAs5i8BhDmARIsAGE4xHzAeLZF9b1mRq9vc2Y6iJKHOTRaYpsZ90oRSCrsFj_mnNVeEH4fYCQaAobSEALw_wcB

Those are guys that are recored,,, We agrred there were a dozen guys we know who made better catches, . And knowing some of those they dont care about notoriety ,,,, plain and simple

[Swede]

The following is Swede's way of determining if someone is a true trophy hunter or a meat hunter.
Look around their house and check for the stuffed animal heads. If you can't find any, they may still claim to be a trophy hunter. They just did not shoot anything since the available bulls or bucks did not measure up to their high standards.
Meat hunters may have one set of mounted antlers in the house, but nothing special. They may or may not have a set of antlers tacked to their tool shed or barn.

A lot of hunters are opportunists. They would love to get a true trophy but will take whatever is available.

[saddlesore]

The following is Swede's way of determining if someone is a true trophy hunter or a meat hunter.
Look around their house and check for the stuffed animal heads. If you can't find any, they may still claim to be a trophy hunter. They just did not shoot anything since the available bulls or bucks did not measure up to their high standards.
Meat hunters may have one set of mounted antlers in the house, but nothing special. They may or may not have a set of antlers tacked to their tool shed or barn.

A lot of hunters are opportunists. They would love to get a true trophy but will take whatever is available.

I have three decent bulls mounted and hanging in my room here, plus the antlers from the fist bull I took in 1966, a spindly 5 point and a lot more raghorns tacked to the barn and garage. Some have been given away but the number pales in terms of the number of cows I have tagged. I have never waited for a bigger bull.

My philosophy has always been "Never pass on a legal elk". I think I have eaten more elk than most because of it. There are lot better hunters than me, but I bet I eat a lot more elk.

[Swede]

Let's face it Saddlesore; we are just meat hunters. I too keep a few racks of antlers. I don't have room for a lot, so I have my first bow kill elk and my last. I have given or traded off most of the antlers I have collected. I do not even have a picture of all of my branched bulls and only a few cows.

When I started this thread, I had no idea anyone would try to put a face or name to the best. Certainly, I never think of myself. If you have given it all you have and are satisfied that you are heading in the right direction, you can at least silently think of yourself as the greatest. If you are not satisfied, then hang out on this forum and see what you can find out so you will continue to improve so you will be closer to the best.
I never think of Saddlesore, IS, or WW as "the greatest", but these jerks could sit in the same camp as the best and should feel right at home. These boys have put in the time and effort to know their way around elk country. I suspect Saddlesore and WW could still go out and get an elk while many more physically capable hunters would return home to tell us how successful they were just hearing and seeing little forest creatures.

[RanchoSueno]

I'm all for filling the freezer, shoot isn't that why we do what we do?! But I also am an antler hoarder. I have piles of sheds, cutoffs, dead heads, euro mounts, skull caps and starting my collection of shoulder mounts. I can't seem to pull myself to "ruin" any bone creating stuff with them. Each shed holds a cool story of how I came about it so far my husband and I have 6 shoulder mounts from our two small properties.
I intend on having dead critters hanging from base moulding to crown moulding in our new home and with a little luck, some bull elk to really shrink the walls

[Swede]

There is nothing wrong with being a trophy hunter. A true meat hunter is like Saddlesore. The meat hunter takes the first legal critter they can shoot. Antlers, if it has any are a bonus. A meat hunter with more than one tag in their pack will get the first kill taken care of then go on for the next. Personally, I might hold out for a simple trophy if I have enough meat to last until next season. One person I hunted with said that with me, "if it's brown it's down". Hunting never has been too much about the trophy. There was the exception when I went to the Northwest Territories on a caribou hunt.

[saddlesore]

Elk , deer and prong horn meat is like money in the bank

[>>>---WW---->]

Makes no matter if you hunt meat or antlers. A trophy is always in the eyes of the beholder!