Let's All Rifle Hunt

[Swede]

I am being a little sarcastic here, but I wonder if we should all just go back to hunting elk with a rifle.
The bow hunters have bows excellent sights, (no more taped on match sticks here) electronic range finders and bow let-off so we can hold our bow at full draw to shoot critters up to 100 yards away. That is not enough for some as they want electronic equipment on their bows so they can be even more effective. The draw poundage for bows here in Oregon was recently lowered so more people could legally hunt. There is constant pressure on the legislature to allow cross bows. The trouble is that these things eventually all get approved, but they come at a price beyond the retail cost of the item.
Now we are seeing more and more places ending up as draw only hunt opportunity as bow hunting is more and more popular.
What is the next thing we need as bow hunters? How about allowing arrows the electronic signal trackers so we can recover our game easier?

[7mmfan]

I see your point Swede, and I don't disagree that technology is slowly destroying opportunity and also taking away from the "hunt". It has very much turned into a harvest in a lot of situations. While not your main topic here, I feel the worst offenders are long range rifle hunters. Through the use of apps and mapping tools like Go-Hunt or On-X, they can find glassing and shooting points without ever stepping foot in the area. They can show up on opening day with multiple 65-80x spotting scopes, find animals out to 1000+ yards away and shoot them. It's no longer a hunt. Success rates have climbed to a point in some of these areas that tags have to be reduced to make up for it.

Back to your point of technology in archery increasing effective range and accuracy, they are very similar issues. While not nearly as effective as a long range rifle, technology has turned archery into a highly accurate form of weaponry and is making it easier to shoot effectively.

Your last point though, I have conflict with. I believe that any technology that can be used to increase the recovery of game after the shot should be available to us. I understand that some of it is likely to be abused (thermal imagery especially), but I see these tools only benefiting hunters and the game we hunt. Explain to me how having tools and technology that help people recover game is detrimental to hunters?

[Swede]

Thank you for your comments and thoughtful reply to the initial post. Ultimately that is what I am looking for more than just some applause for my somewhat cynical assessment of the bow hunting situation.

I think they already have tracking devices that can signal where an arrow is. Now let's say I see an elk at 80 yards out in the open. It is way past my normal shooting range with my bow. But with this special arrow if I can just stick it in him, I can follow it until it beds. I will likely know exactly where it is. You can see where this will take me.
My brother is a non-hunter that camps with me. It is illegal for hunters to use a drone for elk hunting. I have not read that a non-hunter can't fly his drone on public land. He cannot use his drone on just his own property and everything around him is private, so he goes out to the forest to play with his drone while his brother is hunting.
In theory he takes his drone out and just so happens to have an arrow tracking devise and a two-way radio. Is that radio just used to talk to his wife in camp or is he communicating with a hunter using coded words?

When I was on the board for Oregon Bow Hunters, we were advocating for bow hunters in general, but the fellow that is the lead legislative liaison owns a bow shop. He main interest in my opinion was just what was best for his bottom line. I remember when he was pleading for lighted nocks. "They just help recover wounded game" was the pitch. I do not know how everyone uses the technology. Maybe it is just a recovery tool or maybe it goes with the thinking I have heard that says, "you can't get anything if you don't shoot." Of course, this kind of thinking leads to more wounded animals to try and track down.

By the way, I agree with your take on rifle hunting. It has gone the same way as archery.

[7mmfan]

How often do your animals end up with arrows still in them? I haven't bow hunted in a long time, but even when I did, the few I killed were complete pass throughs. Shoulder shots and frontal shots seem to be the only reason I could see an arrow remaining in the animal for long. Are there people out there that would abuse an arrow tracking device, absolutely, but there are people out there that will abuse any and all system that they can, regardless of what it's designed for. We need to stop prohibiting technological advances that have real potential to help, because a select few will choose to abuse it.

Hunters in general do a pretty good job of self regulating, and regulating other hunters. We know, or should know by now, that hunting in today's world is tenuous, and there are a lot of people out there fighting everyday to get it banned. Letting our peers get away with shady acts is something that we should all be fighting against. Ultimately hunting will be undone from within, by a few people bickering amongst themselves instead of banding together for the greater good.

[Swede]

I understand your take on cheaters, but I still think legalizing more effective bows and accessories has helped fuel the bow hunt popularity. As far as how many times I get a pass through on my arrow is a fairly straight forward equation, but I have not kept count. If I shoot directly through the elk and it hits no bone, it will pass through at all ranges that I shoot. If I hit bone or if the shot angle is too great the arrow will stay in the animal. Usually what sticks out will be broken off and the remainder stays inside. My rough estimate is that 80% stay all or partially in the animal. Now what I say is even more of a guestimate, but I would venture to say that about half of the arrows I hit an elk with could retain a tracking devise in operating condition so I could track it.

[saddlesore]

It happens whether a person is a rifle hunter, archer or muzzle loader hunter. How many still only carry a topo map and compass? How many now use one of the software apps such as HuntX, Go Hunt to find where to hunt , range finders carry a phone with all that stuff on it, inline muzzle loader instead of a flintlock, high dollar inline bows instead of a recurve, carbon arrows instead of cedar arrows, mechanical broad heads, mono bullets instead of cast lead, high resolution scopes, instead of iron sights.

BTW.I have life time disability archery permit to use a cross bow in regular archery seaons, but I don''t use it and carry a topo map and compass.

[Lefty]

I'm just going to toss this out.
With all the advancements and technology and information out there. Does archers and muzzleload hunters we have become more and more effective.
Getting better has that made us have shorter seasons slimmer draw results?

[>>>---WW---->]

I'm just going to toss this out.
With all the advancements and technology and information out there. Does archers and muzzleload hunters we have become more and more effective.
Getting better has that made us have shorter seasons slimmer draw results?

Getting better may not have, but, getting easier certainly has.

[Swede]

When I started bow hunting back in the early 1970s, I doubt there were 1,000 total bow hunters in the State. There were no stats kept back then. If you bought a license and tag you could hunt any open area during bow and rifle season. If you did not fill your tag in the bow season, then you could rifle hunt the regular season.
It was rare that I would see another bow hunter out back then. Now Oregon has about 20.000 deer bow hunters and 25,000 elk bow hunters. Since Oregon has kept records on hunter success the percent of hunters filling their tags has not changed significantly.
I agree with WW. The improvement in technology has been offset by other factors. I believe these factors to be overcrowding, calling which has educated the elk and made them call shy, and lower hunter skill now. I see hunters out that have bought all the gadgets and they believe they are going to be very successful. Most of those gadgets along with their bow are just collecting dust in a few years when their dreams are shattered.
I can't count all the people who have told me they used to go bow hunting but don't anymore. Most are significantly younger than I am. Still the woods get crowded with starry eyed young Nimrods every bow season. Then we try to blame the game commission for our lack of success, but they have just responded and given us what we asked for.

[7mmfan]

Part of that change in people in the woods Swede, is just the shear change in population. There are just more people around now than there used to be, so it should be expected that there will be more competition in the woods, even if every report shows that overall hunter participation is declining every year.

The younger crowd is also heavily influenced by social media and Youtube videos. There are more than a handful of Youtube/Instagram celebrities that have millions of followers and have made bow hunting popular and trendy. We are in the midst of an interesting trend where deeper/harder/more extreme is the cool thing, and everyone is jumping on that bandwagon. It's not just relegated to bow hunting, or even hunting in general. I'm a diehard winter steelhead fisherman. I grew up doing it before it was cool. I could float my local rivers and see 8 or 10 people out on a busy day. Now it's 20-30 boats and bank anglers in every run. It's not uncommon to see 100 people a day now. The resource is being abused and it makes me sad. However, there is an abundance of youtubers posting videos daily that have made it a trendy thing to do, and they have shortened the learning curve so much that many people can go out and find success immediately, which was traditionally the barrier to entry for winter steelhead fishermen.

Heck, even simple day hikes on NF trails are affected by this. Trails I hiked as a kid where you'd see 15-20 people, now have cars lined down the road from the trailhead for a mile. Hundreds of people a day hitting these trails.

Anyway, I guess the point is, all of these outdoor activities are being effected. It's technology, availability of information, social media status, trends and overall population increase. They all play a role.

[Swede]

I agree 7mm. Bow hunting especially elk hunting is trendy. I believe the increased in our population is a factor, but not the main factor. As I said above the numbers of hunters is up and the skill level is down. I really don't mind the skilled hunters out in the woods. They are a joy to visit with. They are courteous and can be an asset.

[2MANY]

My bow is driving tacks right now and my tag says I must hunt with a rifle!!!!!!!!