Difficulties and Challenges

[Swede]

I was reading Brendan's post on another thread and it is excellent. I did not want to hijack the thread and go in another direction, so I copied part of it, without permission, and placed it here. Maybe some of you can help answer the question and maybe some of you have some more questions for us to think about. Brendan if you do not want your post here, let me know and I will delete the thread.

Anyway, here is my stab at the questions I copied:

If I had to say the one thing that is still the most difficult for me, is what to do when you're not into Elk or not hearing Elk. How long do you give a spot before you move? How far do you move? How often are you calling and what type of calls as you cover ground? What's the balance between trying to find sign in a new area, and worrying about blundering into a potential bedding area and blowing Elk out?

The answer to (what to do when you're not into Elk or not hearing Elk) is area specific and takes years of experience to develop a comfort level for how to handle these situations. I know from reading other threads and posts that many people hunt these situations differently than I do.

#1. I have messed up staying too long with a lousy area. My locale has deteriorated in hunting quality for years now. It is nothing like it was in the early 90s when I could often shoot 5-6 elk in a season if I would have had the tags for them. Now I am fortunate I get one chance.

I wait 45 minutes to an hour especially in the early season before I move on when calling. Bulls come in silent, and often they are in no hurry. We are impatient and want to rush the action. This is especially true in the early season. I bugle about every 10 minutes from my calling location using a short <2 second, two note sound. I quickly move to the side 10-20 yards and set up and wait as the elk can pinpoint where the call came from. A calling spot is a place where the incoming elk needs to get in real close to see what is supposed to be there.

When I move to another new area, it is usually about 1/4 mile or so. It depends on the area, but I am looking for "new" elk. I prefer a diaphragm with a double latex reed. Triples are too much and I like the ones that make the relatively smaller bull sounds.

Blundering into bedding areas is problematic. Who cares if you are not going back there. If you are going to continue to hunt an area, then use reasonable caution. We have all busted out the elk at the wrong time. If you bust out the elk from their bedding area, you might be well advised to not immediately pursue them like a wolf on the run. Go about your business and let them settle down.

[saddlesore]

If a person has reason to believe that an area holds elk or will, sometimes it is best to wait them out.Where you don't see elk one day,you might see them 4-5 days later after they move in from being pushed from somewhere else. That is why I don' t hunt 5 day seasons. Of course if you go 2-3 years and notice it is down then it is time to change. I have killed quite a few elk on the last day of a 9 day season when I hadn't seen a hair all week.

This past year,I probably should have moved to the next drainage where elk were being killed, but I was with two companions that couldn't. I killed two bulls and a cow within 50 yards of this area in the last three years, but this year,I saw zip.Plus I had killed several elk in the general location in years past.

It is not always about punching the tag.

[Brendan]

By all means - leave the topic here, I think it's a great discussion.

In the other thread, you made a comment to the effect of - "What type of things would you like to see more of here?" and I sort of took it in the direction of the one thing that I feel is the hardest (at least for me anyways) as a less-experienced Elk Hunter. Like you said - the answer isn't easily "taught" on a forum as it's more learned from experience.

But what I do think can help is having people share examples of what worked (or didn't work) for them or what their approach is in a scenario like that.

[Swede]

[quote="Brendan"]But what I do think can help is having people share examples of what worked (or didn't work) for them or what their approach is in a scenario like that.

Before I ever started looking at the internet and found Bowsite listed in a magazine, I had converted to tree stand hunting for elk. I went to the trees because I could much more reliably make a plan and follow through on it. The forums have significantly help me see things I did not understand well. Sometimes finding tips on forums is like picking jewels out of a manure pile. You need to sort through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff. This is where experience really helps. Brendan should be to a point where he can sort out the obvious excrement. Everything we read needs to be filtered. As much as I respect Elknut, have learned from him, and honor his elk hunting still, I see turds in his tool kit too. We have come from different places doing different things, and no one gets it all.
To be open and honest, hunting on the ground, on OTC public land hunts, it has always been hit and miss for me, and the misses outnumber the hits. I have learned many tips that help, but on the ground it still amounts to finding game, trial and error, and perseverance. I have found things that work and many things to avoid, but still I often get tag soup.
I have found that with tree stand hunting, the key is to find places where elk frequent and be patient. If the elk are there, they will come up that trail or to that water hole they have been frequenting. There are not a lot of tricks that will change the course of events that take place there either.
I always welcome stories about what worked for proud hunters. Stories about mistakes are helpful also. They are all fun if well written. New toys that work are interesting, but I have not found the magic tool yet for taking the wily wapiti. Indian Summer stated recently, we are always learning. He is correct. It does not matter if you are from Boston or Boise, no one has it all figured out. Experience helps us older hunters compensate for what we have lost in physical stamina. No matter, it is still tough.

[CurlyTail]

I stay around long enough to determine if the Elk are there, but non-vocal or if they just are not there.

You can usually tell from fresh sign, predawn vocalizations, or midday bumps if the Elk are present or not.

The Elk in my area move from one side of the mountain to the other in response to hunting pressure. They will eventually return to an area but it may take several days or more. I move far enough to put me into a new valley, around a new rock outcropping, or over a saddle to find a new area. This is a considerable effort, and I can only check a couple of areas a day .

[WapitiTalk1]

Where do they go? Well, the hidey hole of course . OK, have you ever hunted an area long enough to really start getting to understand the local elk patterns? Once you've done this you'll discover elk that are normally feeding in on a certain saddle, sidehill, series of meadows, etc., during the night will almost always take the same departure route once they decide to move out (in many cases, right after your arrival). Sometimes it’s just to a bedding area over the ridge, up the side of the mountain, down the draw, wherever..... but...... some of the groups of elk, particularly in an area where they experience a long hunting season, have those certain spots they'll traverse to after their nocturnal hang out/meal that ensure their safety more than others. Oftentimes (particularly in the archery season) you can hear them sounding off periodically as they move; elk have a hard time keeping their traps closed even in the middle of the day during the rut. Sure, they'll answer your calls to keep you located but make no mistake, they are not gonna change their travel plans and head back your way. These safe havens (hidey holes) can certainly be on private land but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about very remote, hard to get to spots, on OTC public land areas where the elk will move to because over many years of doing this, they pretty much know hunters won't be bothering them. Why won't they be bothered (after all, you hear where they're going)? Because after a nad busting 1/2 day hunt, most hunters are not willing to dump down an alder choked side hill to a remote bottom (completely inaccessible by any semblance of trail systems), or, negotiate a nasty climb to get to these spots (particularly if there is really no way outa there without killing yourself). We've all heard each other say (me included) "there's no way I'm packing an elk out of there!). Tech tip: Once you figure out where they're going to spend their day, don't waste your energy and time day after day to head to a spot where you "know" they are from the previous night's locating. Instead, figure out a way (oftentimes it encompasses cutting a trail in/out during a summer scouting trip) to get to "where they're gonna be" and head to that spot at daylight to lay in wait. You may be pleasantly surprised at what you find way down in that hidey hole in the form of sign, and, who shows up mid-morning and at various times throughout the day. Just another tech tip to stow in your elk tool kit.

[Brendan]

OK, have you ever hunted an area long enough to really start getting to understand the local elk patterns? Once you've done this you'll discover elk that are normally feeding in on a certain saddle, sidehill, series of meadows, etc., during the night will almost always take the same departure route once they decide to move out (in many cases, right after your arrival).

That's the hard part. I have 22 days on the ground in one area in MT, 12 days on the ground in one area in WY. That's it... And for a new hunter - it might be zero days. Coming from 2500 miles away, my vacation is limited to hunting trips, no on the ground scouting available unless it involves hunting.

In both places, I've gotten into Elk and had great days, and then had a stretch of days where I couldn't buy one... Also in both places - I very rarely saw Elk by glassing or in the open. In MT - there was very little "Open" at all except smaller clearings. In WY - I was surprised by that, but spotted a grand total of 2 Elk in the open the entire trip. In both areas - I feel like I have an okay sense of the terrain, but not enough to really "know it" yet... So, for a new hunter like me, the question comes down to - how do you handle the situation when all of a sudden you have a dry spell - Aren't seeing 'em, aren't hearing 'em? How do you get to finding out where that nasty hidey hole is? What's your strategy for covering ground, calling, vs. staying put? Part of me wants to go looking for sign, location bugling, but I don't want to do it by barging into a potential bedding area

[saddlesore]

I have several spots that I know very well and have killed elk in. Each of them I Know intimately.Two I have passed on to fellows here .One a young hunter from Nebraska and another a hunter from MO that takes his teenagers hunting . Both got into elk this past season.
I have two more areas that I don't hunt anymore. Another area I have passed on, because it is one that you really have to want to kill an elk to go in there that I don't hunt.

The unit I hunt ML, there is a small herd of resident elk that if I hunt it, I need to kill an elk in the first two days or so. If not they move out.

[Tigger]

Night bugling is an option, although I have done very little of it and wasn't successful when I did.

Sometimes it comes down to "feel". Do you feel the elk are there or not? Sign plays a crucial role in this. No sign, no smell, no visual.....no elk. Time to move....but then that begs the questions of how far? Over the ridge? To the next drainage? Over the mountain? Have you scouted that area? What is the hunting pressure? Do you have good maps? Soooo many variables. I don't think you have to move that far.

One thing we have done is hunt an area....then give it a break for a day or two. This has worked well for us (I killed a bull on the second hunting of an area just like we planned it in '15!). So that means it is pretty important to have 4-8 good areas picked out and at least scouted via Google Earth. It is, however, hard to leave an area that you have encountered elk the day before. Thoughts on this approach?

[saddlesore]

I agree Tigger. If you have those several spots picked out about not hunting the same are every day. You might get by with two days,but by the third day, the elk will have figured out what is going on and leave the area.

The exception might be if maybe you are rifle hunting and sit at the same spot every day watching escape routes