Elk Tactics 101 - Episode #10

[WapitiTalk1]

Date/Time: Early September 2016/5:15 PM
Location: Somewhere in the elk woods
Hunt Pressure Status: Minimal
Hunt: Solo hunt; 20' up in a tree stand
Tag: Archery season; any branched bull

After game camming this active wallow since early August, you finally get to hunt it! You've worked your way in to your established fixed stand working the prevailing winds properly, and, have climbed up and settled in around 4:30 for the evening sit. You've seen this guy on your trail cam images quite a few times when checking the card and have titled him "ninja bull". He always seems to hit the wallow from various directions, usually in the afternoon/evening, sometimes wallows, sometimes just sniffs the edges, and then is outa there pretty quick (never seems to stay long). OK, at 5:15 this guy walks onto the scene and stops where he is standing now. Of course, you're at full draw. It's 35 yards from your tree to the rotten log where the yellow dot is. I'll tell you that the ninja bull is not going to be any different this time than when you've seen him on your cam pics. He's gonna only be in the wallow for less than a minute and will give you three various angles to potentially shoot at. What you're seeing now is where he stopped after he walked in; this is angle #1. Are you shooting at this time? YES or NO. If you're touching off an arrow, show us where your POI is and which yardage you're using. I'll run image/angle #1 one for a bit then move on to #2, and then, #3.

#1 distance.jpg (25.18 KiB) Viewed 7729 times

Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg or png and add the marked up pic with your post.

[cohunter]

I've been burned this way before, but I'm waiting. He hasn't pinned me yet, doesn't look at all alarmed or suspicious and with that quartering shot at that angle, I just don't see a very large sweet spot. AND - its going to be hard to picture a scenario where a better angle doesn't present itself very shortly. There's no way he'll just wheel and get out of there at a dead run, right!? Or walk slowly straight beneath your stand and then directly away from you... or... I admit, it could come back to bite, but I'm holding - just don't feel confident about this shot.

[ElkNut1]

No shot for me there, YET!!!! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Old school]

I'm waiting.

--Mitch

[WapitiTalk1]

Maybe I should have tried a shot at that first position, it wasn't an impossible angle for sure from my/our position in the tree stand. Crap monkeys, now he wheeled on a dime and stopped, dropped, and is rolling like the woods are on fire. Any body shooting here?

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Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg or png and add the marked up pic with your post.

[ishy]

I'm holding...even if he starts to bolt a nervous grunt should turn/stop him.

[Swede]

I would take either shot.

[Swede]

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I would hold the 30 yard pin on him.

[Old school]

If he's rolling like you indicated, I'm waiting. Too much can happen between the release of the arrow and contact.

--Mitch

[Swede]

If he's rolling like you indicated, I'm waiting. Too much can happen between the release of the arrow and

Often where I hunt many elk come to water with extreme caution. It is like they are spring loaded, and the slightest thing will instantly pull their trigger. Several years ago I had a bull almost to the water when a squirrel started chattering at him. I was being careful, but just about to draw. That bull was within two feet of dipping his head for a drink. At that time he would have been shot, but the barking of the squirrel put him in panic mode and he was instantly gone.
A year or two later I killed a big bull approaching a different water hole. He was stopped for over ten minutes behind a tree. He was surveying the area looking for any sign of danger. He moved ahead quickly a few steps and stopped behind another bushy tree. I waited again for over five minutes as he continued to look the area over. Finally he took a couple more steps and stopped again. This time his vitals were exposed. My hunt was over then and there.

Sure you wait for a moment when the bull in the picture is reasonably stable, but bulls in wallows are not doing acrobatics or anything like that. He is not going anywhere in any hurry. This fellow is very vulnerable without his legs under him. An arrow takes about 1/3rd of a second to leave the bow and strike the bull at 30 yards. He has no reason to even try to go change locations in a hurry. He is having fun and relaxing.

One of the lessons I have learned over the years is, that as a hunter you need to be able to shoot accurately, know your limits, and take the first good shot opportunity that comes along on an animal you want. Never pass on a good shot opportunity waiting for a better one. You never know when the squirrel will chatter.

[Old school]

"He is rolling like the woods are on fire" is the reason I decided to wait. I wholeheartedly agree with taking the first good shot. If you wait for the perfect shot too often you don't shoot at all. Fine line between shooting a good shot and shooting a marginal shot. In order for me to turn an arrow loose Id have to see what he had been doing and is he still now or "rolling like the woods are on fire" or has he paused. I think we've got the same philosophy Swede, just maybe our interpretation of what is currently happening with this bull is different.

-Mitch

[cohunter]

I'm waiting, but as soon as he begins to stand that front leg that's kind of in the way will have to come forward... I'm shooting then if I'm able to hold my draw.

[Swede]

Old School, I see your point and agree 100% on not taking a risky shot. I sit at wallows a lot and have watched a few wallow. Most get shot before they get muddy, but not all. I have watched as they splash, lay down in the mud and roll around, so I interpret "rolling like the woods are on fire" with that image in mind. As you correctly point out, we need to be careful and avoid risky, marginal shots.
If you have a good shot take it as soon as it is offered. Could, would, or should will never fill the freezer.

Last September I went back to my hunting area to deer hunt a few days, and pick up my meat from the butcher shop. While camping out one evening a fellow talked to me about an opportunity he had, at the same water hole where I had earlier shot my cow. He had several elk come in and water that afternoon. One was a very nice bull. The guy was disgusted with himself, but honest. He had a great shot opportunity, but was so nervous he could not draw his bow. His muscles were like Jello. He hung around camp and sat with his head in his hands and talked about quitting. Another fellow I hunt with always gets a shot, but misses. He over shoots a lot.

I think I have heard every excuse under the sun. Some are legitimate and others not. The key is to get control of yourself, and be able to execute at the right moment. We can practice and prepare for the shot. These threads help us focus on things and consider the possibilities. Elknut says don't shoot on his post. I think he says that so we will save it for him.
I have found that by not ever shooting at an "elk" I have much better success, and don't have much of a nerve problem either. I just shoot at a minute spot on their hide. If you cannot stabilize your sight on a small spot because the bull is "rolling like the woods are on fire", then hold off until you can. If my sight will stay stable on a spot for just a little point in time, the arrow is gone.

Anyway thanks for sharing and putting up with my preaching. Our pastor does not call on me to supply for him very often, so it just builds up in my system.

[Old school]

Swede - I see your point and respect your experience as an elk hunter - I have no doubt you would be packing that bull out of the woods. I think I'm passing and hoping that I'm not kicking myself in a few minutes.

I preach 4 times a week and am still longwinded. One of our men likes to remind me with this saying "preacher, I've never heard you preach a bad short sermon."

--Mitch

[WapitiTalk1]

Up jumps Ninja bull from his muddy bath and he stops here for just a few seconds before heading in the woods. Shooting now? I don't think any of the other two shooting opportunities were un-doable, but, for those who just didn't want to touch off an arrow at either of the other two angles, now's your chance to show your arrow POI on this fine fellow.

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Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg or png and add the marked up pic with your post.

[ElkNut1]

WHACK!!!

ElkNut1

[Old school]

That's the shot I've been waiting for. I'm not at my desktop so I can't save the picture and mark it, but I'd be aiming for an exit on the far shoulder. I'd estimate him to be 30 yards away and I'm 20' feet up in a tree. I'd put my 25 yard pin where I want the arrow to impact and then I'd turn the arrow loose

--Mitch

[Swede]

This bull must be part cat. He already has two arrows of mine in him, but like relatives at dinner time he keeps popping up. Anyway if this shot does not put him down for good, RJ can name him Lazarus.

Lazarus

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[cohunter]

Finally! If I'm not too shaky from being at full draw that is. If I somehow was able to let down from full draw without spooking him earlier, this is the shot I was waiting for and... He's not even looking! I may see why he's called the ninja bull too - something about the order of events doesn't quite add up here! That clean broadside shot, though You didn't just switch the pictures around for a better story, now, did you? Or is this flopping like a fish out of water what you meant by "rolling like the woods are on fire?"

[Swede]

You didn't just switch the pictures around for a better story, now, did you?

Of coarse RJ would not do that. It is easy to see from the pictures that we have a self cleaning bull. The more he wallows in mud, the cleaner he gets.

Mitch, you must be a Baptist. They are the only ones left around here that have that many services a week. BTW, I'm So. Baptist myself. I think I am living proof of the accuracy of the old saying, "you can always tell a Baptist. You just can't tell them much."

[cohunter]

Swede, I'm pretty sure that bull's a baptist too... there's some kind of cleansing going on there anyway! RJ can you vouch for this bull being a bona fide baptist ninja?

[WapitiTalk1]

Finally! If I'm not too shaky from being at full draw that is. If I somehow was able to let down from full draw without spooking him earlier, this is the shot I was waiting for and... He's not even looking! I may see why he's called the ninja bull too - something about the order of events doesn't quite add up here! That clean broadside shot, though You didn't just switch the pictures around for a better story, now, did you? Or is this flopping like a fish out of water what you meant by "rolling like the woods are on fire?"

Ya, I know. Pay no attention to the "clean" bull after the roll in the mud (sudden downpour?). Was just trying to show through pics that you may have more than one shot opportunity in a situation, but.....can you, and should you (or would you), hold out for the perfect shot in each situation? Just sparking some elky conversation during the long off season.

[Old school]

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I've attached the picture showing my aiming point with my 25 yard pin. Swede - you got it, I am an Independent Baptist pastor. RJ - thanks for the simulated hunting situations, no doubt they will benefit me in the elk woods. As far as taking good shots or waiting for the perfect shot. Early on in my bowhunting for whitetails I discovered that if I passed on a good, make-able shot and waited for the perfect shot, about half the time I didn't get that perfect shot and then had either no shot, or a shot that was more difficult/marginal than the first good opportunity (that I had foolishly passed up). The pendulum swings both ways though - too often what some call a good first opportunity is really a marginal shot. For me, the challenge was differentiating between the first "good shot" and a marginal shot. I lost several deer due to taking what I thought was a "good" shot when in reality it was marginal and I should have never turned the arrow loose. Now, I probably wait a little longer than most would, to insure it really is a good shot. Also take into consideration, time of year, time of day, and how the particular animal is acting - all before deciding whether or not it is a good shot. Even if all those things lead you to wait, you can always get the squirrel chattering or something else goofy happen that messes up the animal. I just hate the feeling that comes with an unrecovered animal, so generally, I wait.

Just my 2 cents.

--Mitch

[Lefty]

I was surprised about Swedes shots.

The first had too much shoulder blade the 2nnd too much gut or bone for me, even if at 20 yards. I would not have taken either of the first two pics. How ever I expect before the third pic( or is it really the 2nd or first???) there would be other presentations that I like better.

with a rifle he would have been dead sometime before he got in the mud

[Swede]

#1%20distance.jpg (25.31 KiB) Viewed 7558 times

The red line closely represents where the shoulder blade is located on RJ's elk. A careful examination of where I shot will show a safe margin for error for the arrow.

I believe there is a bad misconception about where you can safely shoot an animal for a clean kill. Hunters shooting from above have as big a target area as those shooting from the ground. I know this will come off as heresy to some, but there is no advantage to a double lung hit on an animal. What kills an elk is massive bleeding. If you penetrate, and slice through the massive veins and arteries in the chest, or anywhere else for that matter, the critter will die quickly. We shoot for the chest because we have a large safe target there. A person shooting from above may not hit two lungs. No problem however if you get good penetration into the chest. Also, if you hit the kidneys or femoral artery the animal will die as quickly as with a double lung. The problem is those targets would be small and hard to find.
I have missed a shot at an elk years ago and I nonfatal wounded also when I seriously misjudged the distance, but have never had an elk survive a hit in the chest area. That has never happened.

[lamrith]

This bull must be part cat. He already has two arrows of mine in him, but like relatives at dinner time he keeps popping up. Anyway if this shot does not put him down for good, RJ can name him Lazarus.

WLW3.jpg

hahahaaaa

I am with Swede on this one, This bull gotta drop!! Can't edit here at work, but I was thinking about an inch down and right of Swede's mark, but with that sort of a view, chucklehead is heading for the freeze. Just hope to god he makes it out of that bog before he drops. If not I nominate Phantom go in and tie the rope to him while I rig the block n tackle to a REALLLY big tree and his Razor..

[welka]

Might do the 2nd if seems calm, D-E-D on the third. Probably would go a little higher to avoid missing the back lung. That would have been a fun afternoon!