Elk Are Just Big Deer.... Right?

[Indian Summer]

So.... in reading the lurkers thread the other day EastTNHunter brought up a subject that I think is worth talking about. Most people who get into elk hunting have done at least some if not a lot of deer hunting since most of us have them near home. What tactics or ways of thinking that pertain to deer hunting can we carry over to elk hunting? What things don't work for both?

I'll hold off on my comments for now but I will tell you this: Over the years outfitting in Montana I had many really good deer hunters in camp. Guys that really had it together and were consistently killing big bucks back home. Some made the transition to becoming an elk hunter. Some did not. Some were the worst elk hunters on the mountain? How can that be?

Let's do this two ways: You can either give us some input on the subject.... or ask a question about it. Your thoughts?

[bald9eagle]

From what I've read it seems that you have to think like a turkey hunter but realize your prey can smell you. It seems to me that most hardcore whitetail hunters are guys that find good habitat, travel corridors, rut activity and they sit on it. Some of the same tactics work on elk but it seems to me that you have to be more mobile like a turkey hunter. It seems that the herd instinct of elk is very similar to the flock instinct of turkeys.

But what do I know...I've never elk hunted before...lol.

[Heartwood]

I grew up hunting deer in upstate NY. When I moved to Idaho in 1993 I was sure that my deer experience would help me be a good elk hunter. Looking back now as a fairly good elk hunter, I was wrong. Calling elk in the rut is way more similar to calling turkeys. Most deer hunters are not near agressive enough to suit elk hunting. I would say that one similarity is that if an elk or deer smells you, game over at least short term. Good advise to anyone wanting to become an effective elk hunter is to learn Elknuts material. Also, hunt turkeys to satisfy your elk calling addiction. These statements are geared more toward hunting and calling elk during the rut in September and October. Just my opinion.

[cohunter]

I grew up hunting elk and muleys, so I'm not sure if this applies, but the one thing I know that's different between Mule Deer and Elk is this: Patterning mule deer can be a very effective way to hunt. Sometimes a nice mule deer buck will show up at the same place and time for weeks if not pressured. In fact, I've seen these patterns repeat and persist for years in specific deer. Patterning a group of does or a mature buck is often a successful hunting tactic. Elk are totally different in their establishment of patterns and much less predictable. If you see a nice bull come to a wallow at 4:30pm on Monday, he's not all that likely to come in to the same wallow at 4:30 the next day. Doesn't mean it's not worth sitting the wallow, but I wouldn't expect to see that same bull. Anybody else experienced similar?

This is where we cue a half dozen posts with game camera photos of the same bull at the same time day after day.

[cohunter14]

Another thing I would add is finding deer is typically easier because they don't herd up as much. Therefore, they are more spread out and there's a better chance of seeing them. I always see way more deer than I do elk when hunting. But when it comes to big bucks, they seem to be able to hide as good or better than big bulls.

[T.B.]

Indian summer hope this question pertains to the thread.
What did the deer hunters that transitioned to good elk hunters have in common or did the bad elk hunters share common mistakes?

[T.B.]

As a deer hunter I've been able to learn the areas I hunt right down to every rock and stick. I know where the deer will make scrapes and rub trees every year.
Not really a need to worry about what the deer are doing 1-4 miles away because you can't hunt that property anyway.
With elk and western hunting the amount of public land can be overwhelming.
Learning the ground is a major difference for me, but that is just one of the big attractions of chasing elk. You can wonder what's way over on the next ridge and go after it.....ain't America great!!

[Tigger]

TB I was going to say something very similar in that whitetail hunters need to break the mold that says you can only hunt 80 or 160 or 640 acres.

The other thing that still amazes me is that elk are noisy critters and will tolerate a lot more noise than a whitetail.

[Swede]

Both deer and elk have good eyes, but you can fool either. They need to see movement to verify what you are. Both have excellent hearing, but you can disguise your identity if you are careful. Both have a great sense of smell. If they get your scent, there is no second chance. Much of you tree stand set up was learned from reading about Whitetail hunting. There has been a lot of adjustment necessary, but we all start somewhere and go on.
Some people have said Whitetails are predictable and elk are not. Elk are predictable, but in a totally different way. Probably, as much as anything, it is due to the size of their range, and their ability to travel long distances.

[Lefty]

While I didnt hunt white tails much, trapping season was top priority. I would say I was a pretty good deer hunter,.. I started out as a lousy elk hunter.

It makes me sick even now all the elk I let pass the first three years because I was white-tail hunting I waited patiently as dozens of opportunities walked away .

I will my style of rifle still hunting, glassing worked too well,.. thats what didnt carry over to archery elk

[Chellky]

There are similarities I think. I hunt heavily hunted public land in Michigan. We have over 300k of bow hunters hitting the woods every year and over 600k of gun hunters and they are all hunting deer.

Strategies I think are the same that i apply every year, I have to find a nice buck to hunt. This involves covering a lot of ground. I spend 80-90% looking and 10% hunting. When you find a nice buck you have to act fast and get on him before someone else does. You will only get one chance at that buck and if he sees you or smells you he wont move threw there in the day light again. Im talking about bucks that are 3 1/2 or older. They are warriors that have been shot at multiple times all year long. They move threw woods like ninjas.

Some of the same things I would look for on public land around home I look for in heavily hunted OTC elk areas. I look for escape routes to deeper sections of public land or private, keying in on saddles and benches that are easy to travel or and funnel areas. As season progresses the easily traveled areas may not be as productive. Look at sign to see if these areas are being used. If sign is not fresh then keep moving until you find it. With elk its better to keep moving until you find elk. Deer are a little easier if you find fresh sign and no hunters then you can slip in and hopefully get a chance and they havent up and moved 5 miles away for no reason. Deer will always be in there home range but they will not always move in the daylight. They can get a little stupid during the rut.

Look at areas hunters ignore or over look. Same tired advice but when Im in an area and everyone says the elk are up high you need to look high on the mountain then I will be looking down low in the brush. And if everyone is saying they are down low then I will look high. Chances are if they are telling you they found elk somewhere they arent there any more since they have busted them out. But look at the area they suggested and then look at where the elk might have gone on a map and start looking there.

They will always need 3 things food , water, and cover. So always start there. If there isnt these 3 things then your wasting your time looking. Some will live in marginal country just like deer but most wont.

The biggest difference is that elk can have a large home range where deer have a much smaller home range. So being mobile is the key. Once you find them you can hunt them like deer if you want too. Get between there food and bedding. Elk are easier this way as you smell them from a long ways off. When wind is going up the mountain and you have a suspicion they are bedded on a bench walk along a couple hundred yards above them and smell. If you smell them then work off to the side and wait for the wind to shift in the evening and move in between them and food and let them work past you.

Main thing is if your hunting deer on heavily hunted public land in Michigan or elk in heavily hunted otc keep looking until you find them.

[Indian Summer]

Indian summer hope this question pertains to the thread.
What did the deer hunters that transitioned to good elk hunters have in common or did the bad elk hunters share common mistakes?

Lots of really good input on this thread. To answer this question I would say that undoubtedly the ones who made the transition were adaptable and willing to come out of their little deer bubble even if it was really different than what made them successful before. it makes them uncomfortable and not at all confident. Those guy did at least a little homework before their hunt and realized some of the main differences between elk and deer.

You guys have described those differences but mainly, as Chelky said, the size of their home range. A deer might use his entire home range in a day. Elk make their rounds in a much larger area so it could be days or even weeks in some cases until they make it full circle back to where you are. On the spot Chelky.... be mobile until you find them.

Another thing I would add is finding deer is typically easier because they don't herd up as much. Therefore, they are more spread out and there's a better chance of seeing them. I always see way more deer than I do elk when hunting. But when it comes to big bucks, they seem to be able to hide as good or better than big bulls.

That's a heck of a post for so few words. That is exactly what I tell new elk hunters. They are herd animals. Elk are over here, and over there.... with nothing in between. Also VERY true is the fact that that big bucks, mulies or whitetails, are harder to find than a bull elk.

I have had clients who barely covered a square mile or two. One reason is they sneak every step of the way like they are still hunting whitetails. Total waste of time. I have had hunters become really aggravated when I was in ground covering mode because I didn't watch every step and avoid breaking a single twig. Some were actually mad and seemed to get the idea that I didn't care and just wanted their money and to run them into the ground. Here me now.... 99% of guides want to kill elk as much or more than their clients. Those kills are their kills too and they are super proud to put their hunters on bulls. It is why they do what they do. Never ever doubt that.

I had a miserable hunter from Chicago once. He booked a 1 on 1 hunt and insisted that the outfitter was his personal guide. He refused to let me call. As a matter of fact he made all the decisions. About half way through his 10 day hunt I was in a spot where I knew were above a great bedding area. It was mid day but peak of the rut. I begged him to allow me to let a bugle rip. Halfway through the bugle a bull cut me off a raised holy hell. You would think that the guy, who paid good money for my advice and knowledge of the area, would now let me try to help him close the deal. Nope! He said ok there's one... you stay here while I work my way down in silence and him. He blew the bull out, got lost, and ended up in camp around midnight. Even his horse had enough of him by the end of the hunt I swear. he was sooo set in his ways of hunting deer that he refused to open his mind even a little bit. THAT is what kills a deer hunter who decides to go hunt elk. Even if you do know what you are doing you still need to be open minded, mobile, and adapt to every situation.

As far as patterning... it's possible. The problem is elk might stay put but if they do it's only for 3 days+-. You never know if you found them the first day they set up camp or the last.

Last... yes elk, like any animal need food water and cover. But to an elk water can be a mile or more away and feed way further than that. They may bed where there is nothing but cover.

The comment from Chelky about hunting elk with your nose is really good advice. Something a deer hunter would never think of if he didn't know better or smell elk before. There is elk smell.... and then there is hit you in the face and fill your nostrils elk smell. That means they are right there right now. I love it when that happens. Nothing is better than knowing elk are there before you see them and way before they see or smell you. Plus if you smell them.... you have the wind and all is good!

I personally think that there are very few similarities between elk and deer hunting. Including the quality of the meat.

Thanks for the great posts guys. I thought they summed it all up very well.

[cohunter]

As far as patterning... it's possible. The problem is elk might stay put but if they do it's only for 3 days+-. You never know if you found them the first day they set up camp or the last.

Yes!! I have found that as I've hunted the same area several years in a row, I now have a better understanding of where the elk like to bed, travel, water and feed. Can quickly see whether spots that held elk in previous years are currently occupied or not and as a result, spend a lot more time in the elk.

[Luckyman]

Interesting and great info, thanks! All I've really ever known is deer hunting. Nothing like getting a whiff of that musky buck scent when ground stalking. Sounds like mule deer out west don't taste great compared to elk because around here, deer venison is way better than beef!

[oldnovice]

This is good stuff! Boiling it down to the bare essentials.

BTW, ANY deer or elk is better than beef!

[Lefty]

BTW, ANY deer or elk is better than beef!

Ive eaten mostly game for red meat all of my adult life, even when we were feeding our own cows.
While the doe mulie my daughter arrowed this year is by far the best mulie Ive ever tasted. And my daughters certainly prefer game over beef.
A good beef steak tops any cut of game for me.

[Lefty]

Elk Are Just Big Deer.... Right?
Born and raised in white-tail country It took me a long time, even with a few dead elk to quit deer hunting elk,..elk are a totally different animal.