OTC ADVICE

by **juglow** » 03 24, 2015 • [Post 1]

Hi all. I am planning an over the counter hunt in Colorado this year on September 20 to be set up in back country somewherre until the season closes with bow in hand. I have a unit picked out but am concerned with hunt pressure which Is to be expected within reason for over-the-counter hunts. I am looking for honest advice on avoiding the mentioned within reason knowing 4-5 miles in is a must to avoid the day hunters and also units with better chances at Bulls more than a Raghorn. I do not mind working hard for bigger bulls I'm just finding limited resources online on where to start with the 92 units available. If anyone is interested in helping a newbie increase his success odds for a maturer bull please email me so we can communicate in private at Juglow@wgwelchllc.com

Thx

by **ElkNut1** » 03 24, 2015 • [Post 2]

It sounds like you haven't taken many bulls with archery equipment & possibly none to date? If this is the case what is your definition of a mature bull? This can vary amongst hunters. A photo or two may help out or we could share some if that's best. Just making sure all here are on your way of thinking, thanks!

ElkNut1

by **Indian Summer** » 03 24, 2015 • [Post 3]

I know a couple places where no Colorado hunters will disturb you. They are called Montana and Idaho. Have you considered those options as they do have guaranteed licenses as well along with mature bulls and less hunters... and no muzzleloader seasons during the rut. Thought I'd throw that out there.

otherwise... I can't help. Colorado hunters both resident and non are forever on the move so it's hard to predict where you will or won't find them. And as I mentioned on DaleLs thread... X number of miles will NOT make a difference. There are plenty of physically capable backpack hunters and even more people on horses. I think the best answer even though it's not what you want to hear is experience is the best teach. Pick a spot, hunt it, and adapt.

One thing I would say is do NOT commit to backpacking in. Take it one step at a time. Camp at the vehicle. Hike in and hunt. Then if you qualify an area and see a need to take the time and effort to pack in go ahead and commit.

Good luck!

by **otcWill** » 03 24, 2015 • [Post 4]

Good advice from Indian Summer. Forget the mileage thing completely. Stay away from trails. Don't use them to get into the "backcountry". You'll only end up hiking/hunting with a family and their golden retriever

. You have to outsmart other hunters here in CO, not outhike them. Forget major access points. Look at a map and guess where everyone will head and where you might migrate to if you were running for your life. If you can't get a camper or better yet, a car up it than this is a good rd. to start from. You'll cut your competition in half with that advice alone. Hunters are lazy for the most part. If you hike over something gnarly, without any trail access, into some secluded basin, you'll likely find elk. One more piece of golden advice: look at smaller peices of BLM/NF. Guys flock in droves to large tracts of "wilderness" and NF. Nobody looks at the smaller stuff though its still big enough to spend a lifetime in. Good luck!

by **ak32** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 5]

otcWill wrote:Guys flock in droves to large tracts of "wilderness" and NF. Nobody looks at the smaller stuff though its still big enough to spend a lifetime in. Good luck!

This is good advice, the cliche "go 5 miles from a road into the wilderness" is sometimes bad advice as it can get crowded back there! A lot of my go-to areas are just off an accessible road, but places where most would never think to look and I'm alone all day 99% of the time. It helps to live in the unit you hunt since it gives you all summer to scout, but you don't necessarily need that much time. You'd be surprised how many elk hang out in places close to the roads since everybody and their brother is backpacking into wilderness areas during rifle season

by **rhendrix** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 6]

All good advice. The only thing I'd mention is don't set your goals to high. This year will be my first experience in CO for OTC elk, all I want to do is punch my tag on a cow. If I have the opportunity to take a branched bull, that'd be awesome. But realistically the odds are better if I settle on a nice fat delicious cow!

by **DaleL** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 7]

rhendrix, I'll be happy just to see an elk :lol:

by **rhendrix** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 8]

Haha, same here honestly.

by **ak32** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 9]

rhendrix wrote:All good advice. The only thing I'd mention is don't set your goals to high. This year will be my first experience in CO for OTC elk, all I want to do is punch my tag on a cow. If I have the opportunity to take a branched bull, that'd be awesome. But realistically the odds are better if I settle on a nice fat delicious cow!

some units for OTC rifle elk are tough, a lot of people don't even see anything. I'm like you though, i'd much rather have a tasty cow than a bull, but meat is meat.

by **juglow** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 10]

Thanks all that replied...much I've already considered/know but thanks again. To elknut, not that it think it matters but no I haven't taken an elk...non at all. A shooter to me would be above the normal hunters average 3+ on public.

by **juglow** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 11]

All those on Indian summers wall would be nice

by **ElkNut1** » 03 25, 2015 • [Post 12]

juglow, this is why I asked. A 3+ point bull is a raghorn in most respects. It does make a difference that you've not taken an elk with archery equipment. Just because you may have one in range does not guarantee you a kill, they are tough & many first time elk hunters can be pretty nervous on their first elk encounter. Generally when an individual says he wants a mature bull he's referring to a 300" plus bull, this is no means what you are talking about. Thanks for shedding light on this.

Do not concern yourself with a bivy hunt instead listen to what Indian Summer & Octwill mentions, it's great advice & should be taken to heart! You can find plenty of bulls that fit your requirement while hunting from a base camp.

ElkNut1

by **CurlyTail** » 03 27, 2015 • [Post 13]

Indian Summer gives good advice.

Backpacking in to an unproven area just totally commits you to that unproven area. Might have Elk and no hunters, might have Elk and too many hunters, might have no Elk and too many hunters. Better to set up a base camp and day hike in to likely spots. Then you can drive a mile or a few miles to access different drainages until you find the right combo of Elk and no other hunters. Have a plan A, B, C, and D of where to check.

There are no bad units. I hunt a Colorado unit that would be considered the worst possible unit by almost any objective measure, but Elk are present, and by hunting the same area multiple years we have figured out where the Elk frequent, and where the other hunters do not. I love my "bad" unit and would want to go anywhere else.

Last fall, I shot my herd bull 1/3 of a mile from a 2 lane paved highway. 1/3 mile straight up and on the other side of the stream, but that is why it was a decent spot despite the proximity of a road.

by **BrianKY** » 03 27, 2015 • [Post 14]

I am headed to CO for my first elk hunt ever this year. A friend of mine has lived out there for a few years and will be my "guide." I am going with my bow and keeping my expectations realistic. I am planning on a both sex tag and hoping for a legal bull but will not pass on a cow. So many people set their goals on a B&C or a monster and get let down. I am keeping things realistic and understand that any bull could be the "bull of a lifetime" because I dont know the chance to hunt elk will ever come again. Looking forward to it!

by **WapitiTalk1** » 03 27, 2015 • [Post 15]

BrianKY wrote:I am headed to CO for my first elk hunt ever this year. A friend of mine has lived out there for a few years and will be my "guide." I am going with my bow and keeping my expectations realistic. I am planning on a both sex tag and hoping for a legal bull but will not pass on a cow. So many people set their goals on a B&C or a monster and get let down. I am keeping things realistic and understand that any bull could be the "bull of a lifetime" because I dont know the chance to hunt elk will ever come again. Looking forward to it!

You've got the right attitude BrianKY. Any elk with a bow is an accomplishment (heck, those cows are oftentimes harder to arrow than a bull). Even though your buddy lives there, I'd still recommend you do your homework also starting now. Study GE maps, pour through the CO Parks and Wildlife webpage, check harvest stats for the area(s) you'll be hunting, etc., etc. I'm sure your buddy has some has some area(s) that he's scouted/hunted but by doing your own remote research, you may be able to identify a handfull of spots that just may hold elk. Bear in mind that it oftentimes takes three years or more to really start understanding elk behavior in a given area. Your personal research may just discover some spots your buddy hasn't considered. Oh, welcome to "the" elk forum and good luck on your hunt!

by **Elkduds** » 03 27, 2015 • [Post 16]

Sorry to plaigarize RJ, he posted while I was typing.

Welcome to the elkinest forum on the web, Brian. Fighting for control...must resist making adolescent KY reference:oops: Whew, glad that passed. You, sir, have an approach that will not only maximize your enjoyment of your first elk hunt, it will also maximize your learning. It is good to go w a mentor. Ultimately, knowlege is what it takes to bring home the big 'uns, though a boatload of luck sure helps. Enjoy the discussions, share your experience, ask anything you want. There are hunters here, self included, who would shoot a cow that was standing next to a bull. Can't eat them horns, pilgrim.

by **BrianKY** » 03 27, 2015 • [Post 17]

Elkduds wrote:Sorry to plaigarize RJ, he posted while I was typing.

Welcome to the elkinest forum on the web, Brian. Fighting for control...must resist making adolescent KY reference:oops: Whew, glad that passed. You, sir, have an approach that will not only maximize your enjoyment of your first elk hunt, it will also maximize your learning. It is good to go w a mentor. Ultimately, knowlege is what it takes to bring home the big 'uns, though a boatload of luck sure helps. Enjoy the discussions, share your experience, ask anything you want. There are hunters here, self included, who would shoot a cow that was standing next to a bull. Can't eat them horns, pilgrim.

You are certainly right that you cant eat the horns, but they look a heck of a lot better hanging on the wall! That would also probably make the meat taste even better.

by **BrianKY** » 03 27, 2015 • [Post 18]

Phantom16 wrote:
BrianKY wrote:I am headed to CO for my first elk hunt ever this year. A friend of mine has lived out there for a few years and will be my "guide." I am going with my bow and keeping my expectations realistic. I am planning on a both sex tag and hoping for a legal bull but will not pass on a cow. So many people set their goals on a B&C or a monster and get let down. I am keeping things realistic and understand that any bull could be the "bull of a lifetime" because I dont know the chance to hunt elk will ever come again. Looking forward to it!

You've got the right attitude BrianKY. Any elk with a bow is an accomplishment (heck, those cows are oftentimes harder to arrow than a bull). Even though your buddy lives there, I'd still recommend you do your homework also starting now. Study GE maps, pour through the CO Parks and Wildlife webpage, check harvest stats for the area(s) you'll be hunting, etc., etc. I'm sure your buddy has some has some area(s) that he's scouted/hunted but by doing your own remote research, you may be able to identify a handfull of spots that just may hold elk. Bear in mind that it oftentimes takes three years or more to really start understanding elk behavior in a given area. Your personal research may just discover some spots your buddy hasn't considered. Oh, welcome to "the" elk forum and good luck on your hunt!

Absolutely. I am doing all the research possible, as I know absolutely nothing about elk hunting. I have already started conditioning as well because I know it can be tough country, especially after being out there for a few days. I'm looking forward to learning what I can in the next six months or so as I prepare. My friend actually recommended this forum and he is a frequent visitor.

by **2peterhunter** » 03 28, 2015 • [Post 19]

I have been in two dif areas otc in CO the last two years. Being from mn it was quite an experience. Planning on going back this year and I think I have a legit chance... Taking a rifle.lol But I did get close with a bow and with the 16 days I have spent in elk country you learn to find elk, and that there are no "easy" elk to be had. I would also reccomend getting a mask to train for the altitude if your not used to it. It was a major struggle the first time I got out 3-4 miles with a backpack.

by **ElkNut1** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 20]

2peterhunter , welcome aboard sir! Did you struggle in the elkwoods because of being over weight or just not be in good enough physical condition to hunt as hard as you would have liked? Thanks!

ElkNut1

by **2peterhunter** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 21]

Well I was 17 my first trip out west took a 15 passenger van that I slept in. Got it way back there I was all alone. For 9 days what were my parents thinking.... Shot a mule deer at 69 yards so I had fun. Then went again when I was 19 and shot two antelope and then chased elk. I had never been in a higher elevation. Very good physical condition I work hard physically all summer and am in great shape when I go. I can run a 5k in 20 min. But was not used to the elevation and that's what made it harder. I got a mask that simulates the higher elevation and am ready for this next year. Just applied taking my new wife and heading to the same spot as last year. Super pumped. Also applied for a late season cow/calf for wy in jan hopefully I can shoot one there. Tried with a bow the last two years, I could of shot a few really nice 6by 6s with a rifle.

by **Pop-r** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 22]

I'm skeptical on the mask deal. It may help a small degree but your cells are actually having to change & wearing a mask for a workout period is not gonna cause this to happen. It's very more involved than that. (Becoming acclimated & being able to physically do as you will be able to after about 2-3 wks at elevation.)

by **ak32** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 23]

Pop-r wrote:I'm skeptical on the mask deal. It may help a small degree but your cells are actually having to change & wearing a mask for a workout period is not gonna cause this to happen. It's very more involved than that. (Becoming acclimated & being able to physically do as you will be able to after about 2-3 wks at elevation.)

a training mask only trains the diaphragm muscle to be stronger, it does nothing for acclimation to altitude. Altitude obviously affects everybody differently, some do better than others, but it's definitely one of the largest limiting factors that flatlanders have to deal with. I've seen ironman athletes decimated by the altitude so being in shape won't help acclimation at all, but it can help your body cope with the stresses you put on it.

With that being said the best way is to come in and have 2 days/nights to acclimate and let the body adjust, but obviously a lot of people don't have extra time and need to maximize it the best way they can. I live in 9,200ft and I've also told people that come to visit me that ginko biloba works really well in preventing altitude sickness and adjusting to the altitude when you start taking it a week or two prior to coming to altitude. There are also numerous studies that have been done on the supplement too that backs up these claims, I highly recommend it for people coming from near sea level.

by **2peterhunter** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 24]

I did acclimate after 3 days, but I think this will help. I live at 620 feet so I was up at 11-12000 feet.

by **ak32** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 25]

2peterhunter wrote:I did acclimate after 3 days, but I think this will help. I live at 620 feet so I was up at 11-12000 feet.

if anything the "elevation" mask will build up your respiratory muscles which certainly can't hurt, but it doesn't simulate a lower barometric pressure where each breathe has less molecules than at sea level. The biological processes the body undergoes will be the same and will still take a few days before you probably won't feel like you have a hangover. Even then you'll acclimate to 75% after only a few days, but takes months to acclimate 100% to build up the new hemoglobin the body needs for normal respiration/heart rate.

by **Pop-r** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 26]

I agree with it making the diaphragm stronger. The issue is the bodies ability to transfer oxygen to the cells. Or it is for me. I haven't studied it in years but I always go into elk country in superb shape & am amazed at even as low as 8k' the effects on my body. There's a science behind your cells actually changing composition or smthng. I've heard the "3 day" rule forever. Consider yourself lucky imo if in 3 days you can go like you need to. I never have been able to. Now give me about 2-3 wks & that canyon becomes a draw. This is why locals who really aren't in any better if as good of shape as us flatlanders can go so well. I guess everybodies body is different but I cannot get in good enough elk shape without just hitting the mountains. I've tried. It kicks my a$&. I've seen Ryan Hatfield say similar in talking about getting his "mountain legs". It just takes time.

by **G Posik** » 03 29, 2015 • [Post 27]

ak32 wrote:
2peterhunter wrote:I did acclimate after 3 days, but I think this will help. I live at 620 feet so I was up at 11-12000 feet.

if anything the "elevation" mask will build up your respiratory muscles which certainly can't hurt, but it doesn't simulate a lower barometric pressure where each breathe has less molecules than at sea level. The biological processes the body undergoes will be the same and will still take a few days before you probably won't feel like you have a hangover. Even then you'll acclimate to 75% after only a few days, but takes months to acclimate 100% to build up the new hemoglobin the body needs for normal respiration/heart rate.

I will say when I am elk hunting I am always after B&C elk. That is Bulls & Cows. To the mask part ak32 is correct. It will help strengthen your lungs. It does nothing for acclimation. The only thing that helps that is time.

There is some really great advice above. There is not much worse than hiking in 1 step or 100 miles and there is a group of 16 people in there with horses. I will say this, getting through nasty country will eliminate 99% of the other hunters getting in there. The elk will get there with ease. Especially after the muzzle loaders start shooting.

Glenn

by **BrianKY** » 03 30, 2015 • [Post 28]

I was out in CO last May and we had some pretty solid hikes to fish, and one just out hiking. I struggled a little because I wasnt physically prepared. I didnt have very much trouble breathing or catching my breath. I know it will be a whole different ball game camping out for a few days and hiking a handfull of miles each day, so I have already started preparing. I lost eight pounds in March. I want to make sure I do all I can to prepare for this trip.

by **ElkNut1** » 03 30, 2015 • [Post 29]

Brian, sounds great, keep up the training & eating better you will do fine! Do you mind us asking your age? Thanks!

ElkNut1

by **Pop-r** » 03 30, 2015 • [Post 30]

Brian KY you're on the right track! I don't feel as tho I ever can get in good enough shape. I try & still just haven't ever felt like I really got "there" once I got up in elevation. I know how people who aren't in shape must feel. Terrible!

by **BrianKY** » 03 30, 2015 • [Post 31]

I am 27. Back a few years ago I was in the best shape of my life. Active for hours outside of work every single day. But, you get comfortable in a relationship, engaged, buy a house, and you kind of lose some motivation :oops:

But I am back on track to take care of myself. I am not in terrible shape, but have another 20-25 pounds I want to shake off.

by **Pop-r** » 03 30, 2015 • [Post 32]

I lose 25-30 every year during season. Then spend all year putting it back on to lose it again. Lol Like an old running dog, they can lose the same weight in 3 days that it takes 3 wks to put back on them.

by **njdoxie** » 03 30, 2015 • [Post 33]

It can all be summed like this - be in your best shape.

Get there a couple days early, but most can't, I never do. Everybody is different, but I never acclimatize during my 9-10 days in CO, YMMV.

by **mandrroofing** » 03 30, 2015 • [Post 34]

I feel im in decent shape but the mountains always kicks butt,if it doesn't then your not hunting hard enough lol. I will be taking wilderness athlete again this year,last year i swear it kept me going and going!it works...

by **njdoxie** » 03 31, 2015 • [Post 35]

mandrroofing wrote:I feel im in decent shape but the mountains always kicks butt,if it doesn't then your not hunting hard enough lol. I will be taking wilderness athlete again this year,last year i swear it kept me going and going!it works...

Wilderness Athlete does nothing for me I've decided after extensive experience, except separate me from my money, YMMV, but a lot of people do like it

by **Pop-r** » 03 31, 2015 • [Post 36]

I'm glad to hear your opinion on it njdoxie. Was considering ordering some. :/

by **BrianKY** » 03 31, 2015 • [Post 37]

What is it?

by **Trophyhill** » 03 31, 2015 • [Post 38]

my advice for CO OTC? when you think you have enough back up spots to hunt, find a half dozen more. if I've learned one thing in CO it is that there are no secret spots.

by **POk3s** » 03 31, 2015 • [Post 39]

I'll throw in my 2 cents as well. I'm 23 years old and in good shape. Last year I was hell bent backpacking into "my spot" that I scout all summer long, have trail cams in, yada yada yada. It is a small secluded basin that can actually be seen from a few main roads. It's only about 1-1.5 miles to where I camp but it's on the other side of a steep valley from the road. There is also a well used horse trail but it is north of this area and everybody wants to go past it.....ordinarilly. The last few years I've had a run in with a couple of yahoos who have no idea how to hunt elk and have really littered the landscape, but that's a story for another response.

Anyway, when I pulled into where I like to camp there was no room. There were 4-5 horse trailers right there at the trail head from every state except my own, with more somewhere around there. I just had this feeling that the usual spots all these horse people go was going to have a lot of people so I might have more company than usual. So, I set up base camp and just stayed there that night. Hunted close to camp the next morning and heard a few bugles. The next day I still didn't feel like going in so I did the same and found the elk mecca about 1/2 mile from the road. It was the other direction from where ALL these people were hunting and it really doesn't look like much. I ended up hunting that everyday for the next 10 days. Even chased a 340" 6x7 around for 4 of those days. It was thoroughly awesome. Meanwhile I talked with guys heading back in miles and they were seeing/hearing maybe a couple bulls a day.

Moral of the story is the elk are where they are. I love backpacking in and going deep, but last year it just wasn't how the cards were dealt. I had one small mountain all to myself, along with a few canyons off that mountain. There were guys going 6-7 miles from the trailhead and running into other hunters.

by **DaleL** » 04 01, 2015 • [Post 40]

Pok3s good information.

How many different camps does a guy normally encounter at a trailhead? How close to the other camp do you set up? It seems common for multiple groups to be camped, using the same trailhead. Is that correct?

Thanks,

by **njdoxie** » 04 06, 2015 • [Post 41]

DaleL wrote:Pok3s good information.

How many different camps does a guy normally encounter at a trailhead? How close to the other camp do you set up? It seems common for multiple groups to be camped, using the same trailhead. Is that correct?

Thanks,

There is no "normal", every trailhead, every season, every year can be different.

by **Engideer** » 07 15, 2015 • [Post 42]

As a flat lander who has hunted CO OTC for several years, being in shape can be the difference in having a great trip, or never wanting to go back. This is even more true when you have a bull on the ground. If you are bringing an elk out solo in the early season, a couple of miles is about all you would really want to do.

by **Stick** » 07 15, 2015 • [Post 43]

Here is a pic of my 2014 OTC bull. Killed in one of the heaviest hunted units in CO. A lot of good advice above.......lots of folks approach with the go farther faster but my experience has been hunt SMARTER! Adapting to elk hunting is where I believe most newcomers flub up. This is not a whitetail!!!!
Also the sheer immensity of elk country can be intimidating if your not used to it. Break it down and don't overlook what seems like small areas. In elk country they are usually bigger than you think.

by **zpd307** » 07 16, 2015 • [Post 44]

ak32 wrote:
otcWill wrote:Guys flock in droves to large tracts of "wilderness" and NF. Nobody looks at the smaller stuff though its still big enough to spend a lifetime in. Good luck!

This is good advice, the cliche "go 5 miles from a road into the wilderness" is sometimes bad advice as it can get crowded back there! A lot of my go-to areas are just off an accessible road, but places where most would never think to look and I'm alone all day 99% of the time. It helps to live in the unit you hunt since it gives you all summer to scout, but you don't necessarily need that much time. You'd be surprised how many elk hang out in places close to the roads since everybody and their brother is backpacking into wilderness areas during rifle season

ran into this last year in Idaho. everybody had horses and motorcycles. they passed up some good areas closer to the road..... oops, did I say that out loud!

by **Luckyman** » 07 16, 2015 • [Post 45]

Nice one Stick!!
Do tell a short backstory

. Did he come to call?, what kinds? stalk? treestand? wallow? run at him?

by **Stick** » 07 16, 2015 • [Post 46]

He was coming to take the cows away from what I expect was some smaller Bulls that had them herded up. Seems the old Bulls wait till the cows actually start coming in heat to show up.......anyway they were in a screaming match headed toward each other. I had to really hoof it to get around the bull in the pic and then have the wind right and be able to cut in between them.

Talk about making the ground shake :shock:

had the two big bull and two smaller bulls screaming their heads off. When I got in between them and cut in with my cow call pandemonium really broke loose!

I was using a bugling Bulls cow call it is called The Temptress. I had some glacier country mouth calls with me but after running and the adrenaline I wasn't perfectly confident.

So all of them where coming it was just gonna be who got there first. The one in the pic won the race! Shot him at 30 yards. He never knew I was in the world.

This situation didn't need anymore bugling. I don't think you could have got a word in edgewise anyway. Right place, right time.

by **elkstalker** » 07 17, 2015 • [Post 47]

Good post POk3s!

Elk hunting is an adaptive sport, based on the best available intelligence at the time. If you are able to scout an area for months prior and set out trail cameras, great. But you better be ready to change the plan and adapt when people show up and blow the elk out of "your" basin. If you are driving 12 hours to your spot and have never seen it before, you better be sure to log hours on GE and in your maps, have a plan a, b and c, and be ready to move if you find elk somewhere else or aren't getting into elk. Rarely do things work out as I have "planned" them, but that's part of the fun! Get in as best shape as you can and prepare as much as possible, that way you know you have controlled the elements of your hunt that you can control, and that will set you ahead of most of the guys out there.

by **MidMoElkNut** » 07 17, 2015 • [Post 48]

This will be my fourth year elk hunting CO OTC DIY with a bow..... I have not killed an elk yet but have come very close to having a shot the first and the third year but the second year i dont think i even seen an elk at all and ive hunted the same area every year.... I am a big guy 6'6" and about 280 and im 26.... The first year i went with a buddy who was in alot better shape than me but i could still make it up the mountains a little quicker and it blew my mind haha.... My point is If your not in shape dont let that stop you but just be smarter about it and take your time when you can.... Just go out there to have a good time and let it be a bonus if you kill something!!......I havent shot at an elk yet but have had them plenty close enough to, i just wasnt able to make it happen.... These experiences is what keeps my addiction going and i love it!!!...... There is alot of great advice on here and it has helped me so much so make sure you take it to heart..... My advice would be to take it slow and have patience especially while you are just scouting and figuring out the area because that may be when you find the silent elk.... Hunt smarter not harder and have a good time doing it.....

Good luck to everyone!!! Just a little over 1 month for me!!!!