Planning an Elk Hunt is Tougher than I thought!!!

[DMiller6868]

I have a dilemma and thought some of you may be able to point me in the right direction. I'm sure you've read 100 posts similar to mine, but need some good advice and thought this was the best place to turn.

Background: I'm a midwest whitetail bowhunter in Ohio. I can easily afford to make mistakes in the woods and learn how to be better at bowhunting whitetails. I've never hunted elk except with a spotting scope.

Problem: I am absolutely overwhelmed by the options of hunting elk and can not afford to spend 1-2 weeks off work, thousands in gas, gear and calls to go on a camping trip. The odds and harvest statistics seem SO incredibly low that it almost doesn't seem worth it. I'm seeing harvest success rates of 5%-10%, in country I've never set foot in before.

I was on the fence between Colorado and Montana, but the synopsis was not encouraging...

Colorado- Good elk population, tons of hunters. I will spend time thinking a bull is bugling only to realize I'm chasing two guys around the woods. I'll need to build a lot of preference points to have decent odds for a 50% chance at a "good" bull (320"+).
Montana- Crowded, wolves have pushed guys out of traditional spots into other public lands. Your chances are slim unless you're on private land or draw a tag. Successful guys live here and glass bulls on a daily/weekly basis, so they know where to go.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of a DIY back country hunt, but realize it may not be practical given my situation. I have heard so many horror stories of drop camps and realize most outfitters will put guys in the same place year after year even if the elk don't show up. They also save the best spots for their guided clients.

I would be willing to pay something to significantly increase my odds somehow. Does anyone know of any reputable semi-guided outfitters or some way I can "cut corners" to save money. Could I stay in my tent on private land, make my own food, but still get the joy of hunting private land or having a guide on public land. Can I pay a "trespassing fee" on a private ranch that holds elk? I'm really torn here, and am finding more questions than answers. My expectations aren't to kill a 350" bull, but I'd like to be on elk and have some close calls and a shot opportunity at one if I play my cards right.

[Mikeha33]

Joe, AKA Indian Summer could probably be of some assistance if you're serious about Montana. He has a business that is a sponsor here, called Headin West Hunt. You can find a link at the top of the page. Good luck.

[flystrait]

I have a dilemma and thought some of you may be able to point me in the right direction. I'm sure you've read 100 posts similar to mine, but need some good advice and thought this was the best place to turn.

Background: I'm a midwest whitetail bowhunter in Ohio. I can easily afford to make mistakes in the woods and learn how to be better at bowhunting whitetails. I've never hunted elk except with a spotting scope.


Montana- Crowded, wolves have pushed guys out of traditional spots into other public lands. Your chances are slim unless you're on private land or draw a tag. Successful guys live here and glass bulls on a daily/weekly basis, so they know where to go.

DMiller,

I have hunted in several areas of Montana and have found the opposite of what you posted I do tend to seek out areas that are more difficult to access. I also hunt areas I no nothing about except studying maps, google earth and etc. We find bulls every year and have multiple chances. It's all about experience, knowing what elk habitat is and getting there. There are times were the elk are not where I think they are but they are there somewhere. Have multiple areas and plans. Another area could be 20 miles away but be flexible. Elk hunting is not a cheap hunt. Between gas, food, tags, gear and etc. I'm not a local for the areas I hunt and do not even scout them until hunting season so glassing the bulls on a daily basis to be successful would be the wrong analogy. Elk hunting is not easy especially the first few years, It can be downright difficult mentally and physically. I would look at what are your goals long term and not judge your success only by what you kill for a DIY hunt. Just my 2 cents.

[Fridaythe13th]

I think every out-of-state person has the same question. My question for me was do I spend the money and go 1 time every 5-7 years or go every year. Answer: I choose that going more was best for me. I found that getting a elk was just a bonus. there is nothing better than the chase and learning the mountains. Eating your lunch with the best view in the world. But if you have a little more money for the first trip, a guide would show you the ropes a lot faster. Once you have elk hunting in your blood its all over.

[easeup]

planning is hard? the hunt itself is tougher.
the 10% success thing is not fiction. So the plan should include how to have a great trip and enjoy your time in the mountains, rain sleet or snow or mud; just in case you find yourself in the 90. the guys here are the best and will help cut the learners curve for sure.

[Swede]

Mr. Dave Miller:
I applaud you sir. You grasp the gravity of the situation. You are not fooled by the videos, TV shows, and magazine stories. In addition to the bare statistics, let me add another fact to consider. Ten percent success is the over-all number. Most elk are killed, year after year, by the same 5-6% of the hunters. They know where to go and what to do. The other 95% of the hunters are going to share the remaining 5% of the success.
By all means get some advise. Tie in with a hunter that has some success. Do not try to discover everything all at once on your own. Indian Summer as mentioned above is very knowledgeable and helpful. Cnelk has offered to give advise to help people that want to hunt Colorado. If you are interested in Oregon I can share some thoughts with you. John Fitzgerald has also offered to help folks interested in Oregon. He is very knowledgeable. Elknut knows Idaho and RJ (Phantom 16) knows Washington and the Idaho panhandle. PM one of us.

[WapitiTalk1]

I'd like to add that if you work with a partner throughout the hunt planning process, it can really keep you engaged and motivated up until the day you step into the elkwoods, and, thoughout your scheduled hunt. It probably won't be quite so overwhelming when you have somebody else involved in the entire process. DMiller, are you looking at just a solo hunt? Just curious. Another great option for a new elk hunter is to try and tag along with someone who has experience. That in itself can make your first elk hunt much more enjoyable and increase your odds for success.

[DMiller6868]

I'd be planning on tagging along with a good buddy who is a hunter, but he's more interested in filming than hunting these days. He has no elk hunting experience, but I'd definitely have a partner in crime (even if he's just shooting a camera).

I e-mailed Joe and it sounds like he has some good plans that could be quite useful in Montana.

How did some of you guys make the decision to hunt a certain state if you weren't sure where to start?

Colorado seems quite popular and seems to have the cheaper tags, more elk, but also more hunters. It also is closer to me if I wanted to drive.

[Swede]

Choosing the place I would hunt was easy for me. I have spent most of my life in Oregon living very near the forests. I worked in elk country for the U.S. Forest Service 35+ years and was out a lot. I saw elk and elk sign when I was out working. I searched the files available for information on elk, and scouted on days off. It was actually fun to find places to hunt and convenient.

[Lefty]

Re read what Swede posted.

First you need to go with the attitude this will/is/ should be a great learning opportunity, and experience. Not that a nice bull couldn’t be taken but first year elk hunters any 6x6 or bigger shouldnt be expected ; However so much more goes into elk hunting.
My first "nice bull" ,
My 2 and 3rd trip ( 2 hours from home) I heard my first bugle, and spotted the bulls 800 yards away On my forth day hunting my first 6x6 experience at first I was quite disappointed with all the mistakes I made and a bull walking away from a clear shot at less than 35 feet. What I labled as disappointment I soon realized was an experience to cherish ,..


My best advise to start with: Elk are not white-tail deer

[cohunter14]

As has been mentioned, you have somewhat grasped the true difficulty of elk hunting. Success is not something that comes easy at all. If making this trip 'worth it' means filling a tag, you should probably look for something else to drop the money on. I will also tell you that in Colorado, 300+ bulls are not found everywhere. There are certain areas where big bulls just aren't in the genetics. So if 'worth it' also means dropping something 300+, you are best to save your time and money and put it into a reputable outfitter on a once-in-a-lifetime type of hunt. If you are okay with spending the money, coming all this way, and going home empty handed, then you are in better shape. Half of the fun in hunting is the experience and being away from civilization for a few days. But I will tell you that the guys I have seen who only care about filling a tag are the ones who quickly lose the enjoyment of the hunt and get down on themselves very quick. Therefore, make sure you know exactly what your expectations are.

As far as choosing a location, it honestly is not as complex as you are making it. There is no right answer. Simply choose one that you feel is the type of terrain you want to hunt, provides the access you are looking for, and go from there. If it were me, I would choose the closest location to my house with the hopes of being able to return another year and apply the knowledge that you will get from hunting the first year. I will also throw out there that Colorado gets a bad reputation for having a 'ton of hunters' but it is not nearly as difficult as you would think to get away from them.

Feel free to PM me about any areas you are looking at in Colorado and I can give you some input based on my possible experiences there.

[DMiller6868]

Thanks for all the replies. It's quite possible I'm over complicating things a bit, but given the super low odds of being successful elk hunting I'd like to do all the homework necessary to slightly increase my chances if at all possible. If that means choosing a different unit, driving a little farther, or paying a few extra bucks I'm willing to do it. I'm not sure choosing a random unit on a map would do me much good.

I'm not dead set on shooting a 300+'' bull, but as mentioned don't want to go on a camping trip either. Camping is very easy to do here and while I enjoy it, I don't need to drive 1,600 miles to do it. I simply want to see elk, have opportunities to "chase" them and experience the close calls we all yearn for. With a little luck and knowledge maybe I'll even get a shot. What I don't want to happen is to prepare for my hunt all year and make the long drive home after being skunked without seeing a single elk all week.

I'm very interested in learning more about Colorado and Montana at the moment. COHunter14 I will gladly send you a PM. At the moment I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible in hopes to be prepared and become successful....maybe not in my first year or first 5 years, but you've gotta start sometime. I truly appreciate all the tips and advice and enjoy learning from everyone on the forum.

[Kevrod3]

Dmiller I talked to a guy that came to our Church's Beast Feast this past Saturday about elk hunting. He got his first elk a small 5x5 after 8 years of trying. 3 times he use a guide and this past year he finally got it done on a drop camp trip with his son during rifle season in Colorado up by Meeker. However what's funny is, even though he was in a drop came on opening day he saw 31 different hunters. However after 4 pm he didn't see another hunter and with about 15 min. of shooting light 4 bulls came out of the same draw where all the other hunters had came from. He shot one elk and his son 300 yards away shot one of the other ones. The hunt came down to luck! It isn't easy, but if you put your time in success will come.

ElkNutz playbook, Cameron Hanes Backcountry bowhunting books are great books IMO to get you pumped to come West! Yeah its money, but once you smell the Rockies, and smell the sage you'll be hooked! Believe me!

Also you may want to try a semi-guided hunt if you have the money. 3 days you'll be with a guide then usually 2 days on you you'll get a horse ride in/out and a fully stocked camp usually. It can run you about $2500-$3000. Even if you don't get an elk, if you choose a good guide/outfitter you can gain a lot of knowledge. In my case I was lucky enough to get a shot opportunity on my first hunt, but I didn't close the deal. Elk are hard animals to kill. 10 times tougher than whitetails! Don't think you have to buy all new gear to go west either. Good boots, and socks are a must, (no cotton socks!) but most of your early season whitetail camo will work. Also check with your hunting buddies to see if they will let you borrow anything you don't have. i.e. rangefinder, Better optics, rain gear, daypack, etc. I asked around an a lot of friends were fired up I was heading West and they insisted they help. I'm the same way, if I have the gear and I'm not using it, I let my friends use it. No sense of letting my gear collect dust in the basement, when it can help put straps on the grill!

Whatever you choose be mentally/physically prepared for the worse, but hope for the best!

[cohunter14]

PM sent Dave. One thing I forgot to mention is that no matter how decent you get at elk hunting, most of us will have years where we are on a 'glorified camping trip.' It is the nature of the beast. However, if you do some studying and work beforehand, you should be able to have a good chance of getting into elk.

[cnelk]

Im not sure if paying money increases anyone's chances of harvesting an elk.
To put it into perspective, I GUARANTEE everyone that hunts with me gets a shot at an elk.
Last fall, all 4 of us each got at least one shot opening weekend.
How many elk did we pack out that weekend?
NADA - ZILCH

If you think 'planning' an elk hunt is tough, try putting them on the ground

[cohunter14]

Exactly. If I were coming from out of state, I would much rather take the money that would be spent on an outfitter and apply it towards multiple DIY hunts. That's just me though...

[husky390]

planning is hard? the hunt itself is tougher.
the 10% success thing is not fiction. So the plan should include how to have a great trip and enjoy your time in the mountains, rain sleet or snow or mud; just in case you find yourself in the 90. the guys here are the best and will help cut the learners curve for sure.

Well said. Bring a decent camera, learn as much as you can before the hunt, come on out and have a good time. Even if you don't drop one, you will see some breathtaking scenery, invent some new swear words while climbing uphill/sliding downhill, and go home with some great stories. Putting one down is icing on the cake. Just about all of my spots last year was overrun with hunters but I still had a great time. That's the beauty of the CO OTC units as your not tied down to one geographic area. Last year I hunted 4 different units, it would've been 5 had my hunting buddies not killed their elk before I could get down there.

If you're wanting to hunt private property you can check Craigslist as there are always people advertising their land to hunt. Not sure if I'd trust it though. You best bet may be to pick three OTC areas you want to hunt and spend a week out here. If area A is crowded, hike further back in or move to area B. Rather than paying a trespass fee or an outfitter you'll at least save some money to come back the following year.

There are units that you might be able to draw if you choose them as your first choice. In CO, if you don't draw your first choice, you get a point. And may draw your 2 through 4th choice.

[Csrbowhunter]

Dave,
I will help anyway I can! I'm also from Ohio and hunted Montana for five years but this year I'm hunting CO. I took a buddy out thereto Mt two years ago for his first elk hunt and he got lucky and killed a small 4/4 and loved every minute of it! Now he moved to CO so this year I'm hunting with him and it's a little overwhelming because I can't scout before I go. I do think you have a better chance in MT to kill a bigger bull but it's the size of three ohios! Really but there is so much public land out there it's crazy and sometimes I would still run into other hunter. Most of the time you never see anyone but for me I'd hunt an area one year and not see anyone. plan all year to hunt there the next year and then the next year I'd go back there and have to hunt some where else because of to many hunters. So make sure to be open to plan B. I'm trying to work on plan B for this year in case where my buddy wants to hunt doesn't work out. The next thing I'd tell you is plan to hunt for two weeks. The more time you can give yourself the better chance you'll have to kill a bull or at least get some good action.
Other than that I can help you plan with what kind of gear you might need for the hunt you're trying to have. Like are you going to hunt from a trail head or are you trying to camp in a deep spike camp. I shot my first bull about 200 yards from my truck. Then the next year about 7miles from camp. I don't think you have to go far from camp at times. I've had elk walk right threw our camp at night and wake us up bugling while camping beside a road. I don't know if you've been to mt but it's not at all like Ohio where there are houses everywhere. I had to drive an hour just to get to town to buy more groceries. All I'm saying is it's different then Ohio and one more tidbit I can tell you is don't make the mistake I made and try to hunt elk like whitetails. Be more aggressive! Elk aren't as skiddish as whitetail.
While I could go on forever because I love elk hunting. But if you have any questions feel free to pm me and maybe I can help. You are on the right website cuz most guys on here seem to know what they are talking about!

[bowhunter99]

That's the beauty of the CO OTC units as your not tied down to one geographic area.

+1

Be ready to move if need be. I've hunted units one year and saw no one, and the next year it was like I was in Yellowstone!
Got a couple spots in CO. with some decent bulls, but they do hold elk every year. PM me if you're interested. Both areas are within an hour of each other and are OTC.
Haven't actually tagged one in these spots, but that was due to my DA mistakes!

[Indian Summer]

Dave, Where do I begin. First, numbers don't lie. I'd say that outfitted hunts do account for a higher % of success for non-resident hunters and that's almost certain for those with no experience. The once in a lifetime elk hunters should hire an outfitter for sure. Planning a DIY hunt as your first elk hunt ever can definitely be setting yourself up to be in the 90% eating deer meat that winter. But be realistic so you don't crash and burn. Forget about big 6 point bulls for now. Just think dead elk for starters. No doubt once it's day 3 or 4 and you're standing on a timbered hillside you'll say to yourself: I would be happy to kill any legal bull right now. And you will too! BUT... it is always nice to be hunting somewhere where you know there are bulls over 300 or 330 so you know the potential is there and the bull that decides to cooperate could actually be the bull you dreamed of. Might as well be the place you start investing your time in instead of switching later to a place with better quality potential. Last year we had 2 rookie first time bow hunters both kill their first elk one of which went 310ish and the other 320+. Luck of the draw but the bulls were there and that's the first prerequisite to killing ones like that.

I didn't start out by killing my elk every trip, or even thinking I could. Well, that's a lie: On my first ever elk hunt I thought I could for sure. We saw 1 cow with her calf in 8 days. It was a guided hunt too. We got lost one night until 4 am, after we saved the guide who didn't have a clue where we were or how to use a map and compass. Guess what... that is the same place where we put the rookies on the big bulls last season. 25 years in that spot and guess what: still learning! Always learning. Especially when you try new spots which everyone does from time to time. But once you learn how to learn an area you can at least have a few things figured out before you even set foot there. A whole other level of learning curve there. I'm no different than anyone else. 25 years and about 5 feet thick of boot leather are what swayed my odds. There's a lot of dead space out there! In the process I learned that there are surely more places I would not want to look for my elk than there are those where I walk out of camp knowing that today could very well be the day. Nothing is better than having that feeling. It helps you hunt better instead of the feeling of helplessness that can come on when you don't know what you're doing and are looking out over 50 square miles of haystack wondering where the needle might be after waiting all year for that moment.

Interestingly, I think that once you know what you're doing your odds are better on your own than with an outfitter. Yes their camps are in the same place every year. That's not by choice. Outfitters have operating plans with the US Forest Service and the camp sites are designated and don't change. The nice thing about those camps if you are on a guided hunt is the guides or outfitter should know the place like the backs of their hands as long as they have been operating there at least 5 years. In that case I'd say what you are really getting for your money is not the tent and woodstove. It's the knowledge from their experience. If you do book with an outfitter talk to him on the phone and get a feel for how many details he seems to know and if he is a hunter himself. That's a good thing to ask references too. And no.... packing in doesn't always mean better hunting. I would say that as long as you find the right spot to start, you're money, and even maybe a little slower of a learning curve on year 1 is a better investment of time and money. Unless you don't planning on hunting elk again that is. If you want to continue to hunt elk you want a repeatable plan that isn't going to mean repeat outfitter bills every year.

Learning to hunt elk takes time. There's no way around that. But I would say that for the clock to start ticking you need to be into elk. Just seeing sign and encountering animals or even just walking out the game trails in your area are huge steps in the right direction. They are all visual pieces of the puzzle and making a note of the common factors surrounding these tidbits of information and how they all fit together is what the learning process is all about. But if there are no animals around, or very few, the learning curve is going to be way longer. I've had my share of hunts gone bad. Elkless elk hunts. The biggest bummer of them isn't just the no elk thing. It's the fact that I know I learned nothing and am back to square 1 as far as my learning of a hunting area. Getting skunked isn't so bad when you can chalk it up to your lack of luck or experience but you feel like you could come back to the same place next year and armed with some experience there have a chance of getting it done.

Then there is the budget factor. Not everyone can afford an outfitter or a service like mine. Also, some wouldn't pay money for knowledge if they could. They want to truly do everything on their own for the sense of accomplishment which is understandable. But... all of my spots start with an inside tip. Tips from other elk hunters or even more so guys who have guided for me and now live and/or work somewhere else. I know before I start going cross-eyed looking at maps that the elk are there and even where to start looking. That's priceless.

Thinking you can find THE place to start online or with some calls to the fish and game departments is almost like throwing a dart at a map. Forums like this are WAY better than that. You can pick up tips right here from guys like Swede, Cnelk, and John Fitz and others. I would say that before anything else the plan for all of you that are new to elk hunting should get talking to somebody who can say I have been there and this is what's going on. The one thing I would ask is, how many other hunters. Hunting spooky elk and competing with hunters who know the area better than me is not going to be plan A... B or C!

Hope that clears your head a little. Planning can no doubt be as frustrating as a bad day or week of hunting. Best of luck pilgrim! I get so excited every year seeing who decided to do what and what happened when they got there. Come on mtnmutt, kill one this year sister!!!

[ctdad]

Western hunting is a whole different thing when compared to whitetail hunting the plains. It isn't for everybody. You'll have to try it for yourself to see if it is your cup of tea. If it is, you'll become so addicted, that all of your current doubts and worries will drive you and make you crave every minute in the mountains you can get. This isn't useful info for your planning, but I was in your position before my first trip and now I'm addicted.

[Indian Summer]

Western hunting isn't for everybody. You'll have to try it for yourself to see if it is your cup of tea. If it is, you'll become so addicted, that all of your current doubts and worries will drive you and make you crave every minute in the mountains you can get. This isn't useful info for your planning, but I was in your position before my first trip and now I'm addicted.

Sounds like a person at an AA meeting who is confessing to having an addiction.

"Hi everyone, my name is ctdad, I am a junkie"

[WapitiTalk1]

Western hunting isn't for everybody. You'll have to try it for yourself to see if it is your cup of tea. If it is, you'll become so addicted, that all of your current doubts and worries will drive you and make you crave every minute in the mountains you can get. This isn't useful info for your planning, but I was in your position before my first trip and now I'm addicted.

Sounds like a person at an AA meeting who is confessing to having an addiction.

"Hi everyone, my name is ctdad, I am a junkie"

I can quit anytime I want

[ctdad]

Aa is for someone interested in quitting their vice. I have no such interest.

[easeup]

Learning to hunt elk takes time. There's no way around that. But I would say that for the clock to start ticking you need to be into elk. Just seeing sign and encountering animals or even just walking out the game trails in your area are huge steps in the right direction. They are all visual pieces of the puzzle and making a note of the common factors surrounding these tidbits of information and how they all fit together is what the learning process is all about. But if there are no animals around, or very few, the learning curve is going to be way longer. I've had my share of hunts gone bad. Elkless elk hunts. The biggest bummer of them isn't just the no elk thing. It's the fact that I know I learned nothing and am back to square 1 as far as my learning of a hunting area. Getting skunked isn't so bad when you can chalk it up to your lack of luck or experience but you feel like you could come back to the same place next year and armed with some experience there have a chance of getting it done.

amen....been there more times than I want to confess and I hate it.

[zpd307]

I agree with what everyone here has already said. I have 2 Colorado diy hunts under my belt with 0% success. planning my 3rd right now to Idaho. hunting elk is nothing like hunting white tails back home. it may seem overwhelming, but once you are out there you will wonder why it took so long to start. I pretty much start planning the next years hunt when I get home from the previous years hunt.