Situation Scenario #1

[husky390]

I've enjoyed participating the elk shot placement scenarios which made me think "what if" in other situations so I figured I'd throw one out and see if anyone's interested in participating. If there's a lot of interest, I'll post some others up.

Scenario #1
You are on the 4th day of your 6 day DIY hunt. It's mid season, you checked the weather prior to leaving and there was a 20% chance of rain. You are 4 miles from your truck but it hasn't been an easy pack in. You took a well established trail but in the first mile it was a nightmare of switchbacks that would make a billygoat puke and a 1,000' of elevation gain in the first half mile. Once on top, you hiked 3 miles across meadows and set up camp along a treeline at 11,800'. The hunting's been good and you have not seen anyone since you left your truck. You notice on the 3'rd morning the wind has picked up and it seems a front is blowing in. As the day progresses, the weather turns worse and it looks like it's going to snow when you're heading back to camp that night. You get back to camp, the temps have plummeted and it's beginning to snow. You eat dinner and go to bed. The next morning you wake up to find the roof of your tent almost touching your face. You climb out of your tent to find it had dumped 2' of snow overnight and it's knee/thigh deep in most places. Visibility sucks as it's still snowing and you can only get a weak GPS signal due to the heavy cloud cover. You are in a Wilderness area with no cell coverage and no idea what the weather is going to do. What do you do?

[Still Hunter]

Probably die for being so stupid to put myself in that situation.

[JGH]

What do I do?

What else is there to do? Leave.

If there were still elk up there, fine ... there are easier elk to be had with less than 2' of snow. It's going to take at least a day to get out, and that's if you leave now.

[Elkonthebrain]

I would also pack up and go in search of Elk at a lower elevation.

[>>>---WW---->]

I might consider pushing the button on my PLB. Always wondered how well it would work anyhow.

[Elkduds]

Sounds like a scenario from Flattops wilderness area.

[elkmtngear]

Sounds like a scenario from Flattops wilderness area.

Happened to me almost just as you described this Season (in the Flattops).

Fortunately, it was only 6 inches of snow.

I followed fresh bull tracks that morning for over two miles, until they disappeared in thick dark timber.

So, I packed up my gear, and went South about 10 miles.

[Still Hunter]

The 2' of snow is what made the whole thing so dangerous. I would have been more aware of any big storm like that.

Have you ever hiked in 2' of snow without snowshoes? It can beat the crap out of a young guy. Old guys are in real trouble.

[ctdad]

I've hunted areas I had no way to get a weather update while hunting. I've never woke to two feet but I've been surprised by snow. Two feet would send me to the truck if I could get there. Not sure I could move the truck in that much snow but the heater would feel good.

[cnelk]

Just below timberline @ 10,500and not quite 2 feet of snow, but this storm hit fast 1st Rifle season in 1997.
Didnt take long to make the decision to relocate to lower elevations

[Still Hunter]

You sure take a lot of pictures Brad.

[husky390]

This is basically what happened to the guy's in Unit 12 during first rifle season last year. A friend of mine was hunting that weekend, luckily the storm blew in during the daytime on the 2'nd day and they were able to get out of there, but it was a struggle. We were up there the following weekend and I was hiking in knee deep snow that was left over from that storm.

So, we know it's possible that the weather can change like that and we know that walking in knee deep snow sucks. Do any of you have any tips for hiking out in it and for navigation? Obviously map and compass skills would be a premium since landmarks and GPS would not be very helpful. I'm thinking sticking to the tree line as much as possible even if it means a longer route as the meadows might see deeper snow levels due to wind blown snow. I usually use gaiters anyways and trekking poles would definitely be used.

This is as much of a learning exercise for me as others. This will be my 3rd year hunting CO and as unlikely a storm like this could hit during archery season, it's possible. Having grown up in Az, snow was not much of a worry so while my desert skills are good, I'm looking to brush up on mountain skills.

[WapitiTalk1]

1989ish, I went back to MT mid September on a hunting leave from the Army. A buddy and I headed into a wilderness are to stay two nights/three days. Cheapo two man tent and equally cheap, old down mummy bags. Cold and clear when we went in. Hiked back in about two and a half miles on a billy goat trail like you mentioned. Locate bugled over the edge of our camp into a deep, deep canyon right at dark and were greeted with at least 4 big screamers telling us to piss off. Hit the rack and woke up to a snow collapsed tent and us soaked in our bags. In our 20s, no problem.. we headed down into that canyon to hunt those bulls and thank God, we didn't get a shot. Took us hours to come back up out of that steep son of a gun, slipping backwards many yards numerous times, with a blizzard blowing down the side hill. Packed up our soaking wet gear and hiked out to the truck. By the time we got out, there was a good foot and a half of snow on the ground. If one of us would have gotten hurt, or, hypothermia set in.. we would have been screwed big time.

Yes sir, I'm packing up and getting out of the area in the scenario you offered.

[Still Hunter]

It won't be as deep in the timber.

Some are underestimating 2' of snow. It's almost mid thigh. Murder to hike in.

[Trophyhill]

Dave, this very thing happened to me this year on a landowner unit wide rifle tag in unit 51 NM in late November. I drove up the mountain in the dark with a little snow on the ground. when I woke up opening morning there was nearly 2' of snow on the ground! I gave it my best shot and hunted til about 2pm. I found fresh tracks but couldn't keep up. Still Hunter is right. hunting in knee high and better deep snow is brutal and with the blowing snow causing white out conditions at times made for a miserable day. this was at about 10,000'. I may as well of stayed up there though cuz I didn't find any elk down low either. my whole issue was I only had 2 days to git er done. I would have found them if I had more time but it just wasn't in the cards.

[Elkduds]

I have hunted elk on cross country skis, once. I had skis, not the elk, which BTW I tracked for a day but never saw. Dec 2013 National Geographic magazine has an article about elk hunting in China's Altay mountains, where locals use giant skis to run down elk in deep snow and lasso them :!: See the photo on pp 88-89 of that issue.

My one skiing/hunting day happened when I could only drive as far as the border of the national forest after an 18" overnight snowfall. It was fun, I cut some elk tracks, and the only other hunters I saw were on a snow machine. I would feel comfortable hunting on skis when snow was more than a foot deep. It would be easier to drag quarters on a sled than pack them, a heavy pack makes skiing extra challenging.

A huge storm coming in would be a good situation in which to have a satellite 2-way communicator. Someone watching the forecast could contact me and I could break camp before travel became hazardous.

[cnelk]

You sure take a lot of pictures Brad.

Yes I do. It portrays the real thing

[husky390]

Okay, you've packed up your gear and are making your way back to your truck. It's still storming but is slowing down a little but you don't know if it's going to stop. It's 11:30 and you think you're about a mile and a half to your truck with the billygoat puke trail ahead of you. You take your pack off to grab some food, water and rest. You've thought you've heard elk but it's hard to tell with the wind. You've fallen over countless times navigating the snow and are pissed off at the world. You're still on the edge of the tree line and look over and see this guy.



Do you try to take the shot if he turns and steps out? Winds are approx 10 mph, gusting to 20 and blowing to the right. He's 30 yards.

[jmez]

I would pack up and head out. Depending on how the hike was going I may ditch everthing in my pack unless I absolutely needed it to survive. Hiking four miles in two foot of snow would be brutal. Only good thing is it would all be down hill.

[Mikeha33]

A mile and a half from the truck. With a 300"+ bull at 30 yards. Honestly, I'm probably going to shoot. You're mad at the world for ruining your elk trip with 2' of snow. Seeing an animal like this is a game changer for me. It automatically boosts morale. There's 2' of snow on the mountain at 11'800, which means even at the truck, if it's at 10,800, you still probably have a significant amount of snow, probably too much to navigate out of the nasty mountain roads anyways. You're pretty well stuck up there. I'd probably take the shot. If I hit, then I've got my work cut out for me. If I don't, then I've got my work cut out for me. Its cold, so the meat will be OK, and I'm on day 4 of 6, so I realistically have 2 days left to get the animal out. Ideal? No. But, I am elk hunting in the mountains, and I sure as hell didn't wait all year, drive this far, and go through hell, (and almost back) to pass a 30 yard shot at what could be an OTC hunters bull of a lifetime.
It may not be easy, or the smartest decision I've made in the last few hours, but if it were easy everybody would do it.

[elkmtngear]

A mile and a half from the truck. With a 300"+ bull at 30 yards. Honestly, I'm probably going to shoot. You're mad at the world for ruining your elk trip with 2' of snow. Seeing an animal like this is a game changer for me. It automatically boosts morale. There's 2' of snow on the mountain at 11'800, which means even at the truck, if it's at 10,800, you still probably have a significant amount of snow, probably too much to navigate out of the nasty mountain roads anyways. You're pretty well stuck up there. I'd probably take the shot. If I hit, then I've got my work cut out for me. If I don't, then I've got my work cut out for me. Its cold, so the meat will be OK, and I'm on day 4 of 6, so I realistically have 2 days left to get the animal out. Ideal? No. But, I am elk hunting in the mountains, and I sure as hell didn't wait all year, drive this far, and go through hell, (and almost back) to pass a 30 yard shot at what could be an OTC hunters bull of a lifetime.
It may not be easy, or the smartest decision I've made in the last few hours, but if it were easy everybody would do it.

I'm with Mike on this one.

[BrentLaBere]

Yup, not fun at all walking through that much snow. Lucky for me 2' of snow is just at the bottom of my knee but either way tough hiking. When you go get snow like that you are certain to run into drifts that are a lot deeper than 2'. Hike out and head to the bar to make a plan B. Took us from 6 am to 5 that night to get off the mountain. After that, like mike mentioned, even driving out was a challenge with slippery roads. It was not supposed to storm like that but did.

[WapitiTalk1]

A bit of a thread diversion (sorry husky390) but has anybody considered adding one of these to their gear locker? I know we all have shovels in our trucks at the trailhead while out hunting in snow country, but, one of these little critters may be an option to carry in "just in case".

http://www.rei.com/product/745471/black ... now-shovel

[>>>---WW---->]

I don't think you realize the seriousness of the situation here. You are at 12,000 feet elevation or close to that and I'm assuming you have backpacked your camp in. It is cloudy, snowing, and blowing snow. You stated your GPS probably wouldn't work in these conditions. So, a compass is your best friend. And hopefully, you know which way the road is that you parked your truck on. If you are lucky enough to have cell service you can dial 911 and inform them of your situation but without a GPS how would you know what coordinates to give them?

If you look back at my first post you will notice that I had a PLB, personal locator beacon. And, I stated that it would be very tempting to push the button. I was not joking!

So, according to your post you broke camp. Now you have a loaded pack on your back, 2 feet of snow on the ground, still snowing, and blowing, but hopefully you still have a compass. So you decide to try to walk out.

In these conditions, no matter what high tech clothing and gear you have on, in 2 feet of snow with a 40 to 50 pound pack on your back you are going to sweat your balls off. Hypothermia is a huge possibility in this situation and you need to really think about it.

You started your trek four miles away from your vehicle. And you asked if it would be better to stay in the open or to run the tree line. There may be slightly more snow in the open parks but in the timber, 2 feet of snow will cover a lot of the deadfall. And you could get tripped up, possibly fall, and maybe even sprain or break something. Personally, I suppose the choice is yours. You are in a bad situation either way.

Now you say you are only a mile and a half from your truck when you see this nice bull. In the first place, your first concern should be for your own safety. And how do you know you're only a mile and a half from your truck. With poor visibility most people end up walking in a large circle. If you are right-handed, the tendency is to circle to your right as that is your stronger side. Leftys tend to circle left. So my question is how do you know you are only a mile from your truck. The heck with the bull, you need to think about getting yourself out of there! And the even if you are stupid enough to shoot the elk, then you are probably talking multiple trips of about another 4 miles or more just getting it out.

Okay, now let's say you finally make it to your truck. With 2 feet of snow on a mountain road even if you chain up you're not going to get very far. I don't know what part of Colorado you are hunting in, but around here there is no winter maintenance on backcountry roads. So now unless your truck is on a well-maintained road, you are no better off than you were when you started your trek out in the first place.

I don't know about other states, but in Colorado for each hunting license you have you pay a search and rescue fee. You have yourself in a real pickle. So this just might be the time to consider pushing that button on your PLB. I hope you have one!

I know I'm painting a worse case scenario here. But I see a picture in my mind of Hatchet Jack frozen in a snow bank when Jeremiah Johnson pryed that 50 caliber Hawken from his frozen hands

[ishy]

Thwap! A 300 bull only 1.5 miles from the truck if I'm not already overly confused or hypothermic. Serious situation yes, but that's why we do all the prep work before... map work, having the best gear we can afford, getting in shape to be able to pack an elk from anywhere we get ourselves into. Just think how warm that elk will be while cutting him up, my hands feel better already. Meat would be a no issue and could be hung till later if help was needed. All gear could be left with meat if you were that bad off, no one in thier right mind would be out in such weather.
I did just push through 2' of snow trying to call a wolf this week, and it does really stink. Especially when you dont see any wolves.

[cohunter14]

I have a few thoughts on this whole scenario:

1) This is a great post for the newbies out there to see. This is a situation that can definitely happen and turn a nice vacation into a one way ticket to a coffin. Mountain weather can change in an instant. It is extremely important to always pay attention to the weather reports, ESPECIALLY if you are backpacking in. A simple radio that can pick up some local stations can help with this. I used to hunt in an area that was a extremely difficult to access by vehicle and if there was ever more than 10"-12" of snow, there was no way you were getting back out. There were a couple of times where we had to bail out and leave camp early because of weather coming in. Better to cut a trip short than risk your life.

2) In this situation where you see the elk, one thought that would cross my mind is will I be able to get my truck out once I am back there. If it is on a maintained road and I can get it out, then it's a simple decision of whether I feel like driving into town and buying a sled and some snowshoes to come back and pack this guy out. If I think that the truck is stuck and I won't be able to get out, you better believe that I am taking this guy down. If I am stuck in this place for a few days or weeks, at least I will have some food at my disposal. I would plan on leaving some gear that I don't need immediately or for survival with the quartered carcass and I would take some meat with me down to the truck (probably the filet - well deserved at this point!).

Again, this is a situation you never want to put yourself in. If for some reason this does happen though, you need to think of surviving first and foremost, not hanging a trophy on your wall.

[JJ Overkill]

I know the smart thing to do is forget about the elk and keep trekking to the truck, but NO ONE has ever accused me of being smart. id probably be going to full draw and releasing an arrow if the shot opportunity appeared. with myself and husky to pack out, I can carry one quarter and he can get the other three while im digging out the truck if needed and putting on the tire chains. im sure we would have more than enough work cut out for us but I KNOW it would come down to a race to see who could draw first and get the shot. heck the bull might get two arrows at the same time.

it might become a life and death situation real fast if he doesn't agree my arrow was more lethal than his

[husky390]

It would be tough to not shoot that bull. Very tough. Everyone brought up great points and I do think the situation is possible. I wish I could have posted a topo map to get everyone a better picture but my googlefu is not that good.
Mikeha, I see your point, being from out of State on a week long hunt and getting hammered by a storm like this, I cant fault you for dropping the hammer on him. I also think WW and cohunter14 are on the right track and here's why.

1. You do not know what the weather is going to do. This could be the leading edge of a very bad front and it could snow more.
2. WW made a great point. You think you know where your truck is. How many of us actually practice our orienteering skills?
3. Your camp is loaded in your pack and you will sweat hiking through this crap. I never mentioned temperature but for those who posted up the pics, what was the temperature during those storms?
4. You have no idea what the roads will be like or if you can get out. Not a big deal since you'll be at your truck which has extra supplies. I hope.
5. It's going to take friends or even a S&R crew a long time to get to you. If you drop that elk and if you can get cell service to call a buddy to come get you, will he be able to make it to you? With weather like this, an air response from S&R would be highly unlikely if you're hurt.
6. It's only mid-season. You would still have two more weekends available to hunt. Also, since it's only mid season, do you have clothes in your pack for this type of storm? Gloves, boots, socks, pants, shirt, coat, stocking cap? Do you have gear in your truck for this type of weather that you can use to finish packing out the elk?
7. Your seeing this bull while you're heading to lower elevation. The herd could be moving downhill as well and you may get a shot at one closer to your truck.

Everyone has their own priorities and abilities. I have a vivid imagination and try to plan for the worst, hope for the best. I would be thinking that this storm could be getting worse. I'd be very tempted to stick an arrow in him but I'm not sure it'd be worth risking my life or limb for it. Besides, I'd have a pretty cool story to tell about making it out of that storm. I carry a PLB on me but I do not think it would do much good until the weather cleared. Bottom line, I have a wife who is waiting at home for me to get back, and although this has become a passion, borderline obsession for me, getting home in one piece is my priority so I'm passing on the shot.
Hopefully this has helped some, I'm not a professional and have nowhere near the elk hunting experience some of you guy's have on this forum but I try to be as self sufficient as I can by playing these scenarios through my head and learning from others.






For those who chose to pass up the shot. You made it down the billygoat puke trail and are 500 yards from your truck. You look to your left and see this guy, calm as a hindu cow and unaware of you. Congrats.

[husky390]

Yup, not fun at all walking through that much snow. Lucky for me 2' of snow is just at the bottom of my knee but either way tough hiking. When you go get snow like that you are certain to run into drifts that are a lot deeper than 2'. Hike out and head to the bar to make a plan B. Took us from 6 am to 5 that night to get off the mountain. After that, like mike mentioned, even driving out was a challenge with slippery roads. It was not supposed to storm like that but did.

Brent, how far away were you from your truck?

[cnelk]

Deleted by another Superpower

[cohunter14]

Brad, you make a good point, but the point I was making had more to do with shooting the bull for survival. As I mentioned, if you don't think you are going to be able to get your truck out, then getting there doesn't do you a ton of good except in getting you out of the snow. I would only shoot that bull to take some meat down with me, while leaving some of my non-needed items with the rest of the quarters. The only other way I see that you could do this is if you know you can get your truck out and you are prepared to go buy snowshoes and a sled. Quarter the animal and leave it there (it isn't going to spoil in this weather). Get back to the truck, go buy the snowshoes and sled, get a good nights rest in the truck, and then you have two days to get up there and pack it out.

Either way, there are a lot of question marks here and what-if's. I think the biggest thing that can be learned is to avoid getting yourself in this situation. The good news is that based on the last pic from Husky, there is only a light dusting of snow at the truck!!

[BrentLaBere]

Yup, not fun at all walking through that much snow. Lucky for me 2' of snow is just at the bottom of my knee but either way tough hiking. When you go get snow like that you are certain to run into drifts that are a lot deeper than 2'. Hike out and head to the bar to make a plan B. Took us from 6 am to 5 that night to get off the mountain. After that, like mike mentioned, even driving out was a challenge with slippery roads. It was not supposed to storm like that but did.

Brent, how far away were you from your truck?

I wasn't sure on the exact distance so I did a "path" on Google earth and was surprised at the distance. Plus learned a new tool. After following our path it showed a distance of 7.79 miles. The snow was not as deep in the lower elevation. Heck the storm wasn't even as bad but needed to get out of the higher elevations where it was bad. Not all that time I mentioned was for the hike itself.
The story is pretty interesting people are laying down. The night prior, we found a lot of elk in the basin below us and decided not to drop in after them with a light snow fall. Good thing we didn't. And I will admit it wasn't my idea to back out.

[ElkNut1]

Well, I must be superman then, because no conditions on earth would stop me from taking an elk when I'm out there hunting them hard or else I wouldn't be there, distance is irrelevant & no worries about meat going bad! I may wait a second for just a bit better angle but when it presented itself my arrow would be gone. (grin) Plus each succeeding trip I would stay on the packed down snow making in & out much more doable. It does help I've lived in snow country most of my life & there's generally two of us to pack. That's the kind of physical exertion I truly live for! It's not for everyone but I wouldn't hesitate for a second in taking that bull, it would be a great memory builder! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Huntrgathr]

Actually Paul, when it comes to elk hunting, you pretty much are Superman as far as I'm concerned !

Great thread !It's hard to tell if this is a survival situation or just a really tough hunt. If there's at least 14" of snow at the car then I'm not getting out for awhile anyway. Day 4 of a 6 day hunt means no one is going to call S+R for at least 3 days so I know I've got to tough it out. 2' of snow is getting to the limits of what a 5'8" guy like me can handle. 4 miles isn't a big deal though if it's all flat and downhill, even in that much snow. I hunt November every year and I've been very close to this situation many times. If you were inexperienced in any aspect of this situation ( snow travel, navigation, short term survival) you could be in serious trouble. Snowshoes can be fashioned from all kinds of stuff but usually are no good on fresh powder.

So what would I do ? Pack camp and get out ASAP obviously. But not before trying to get a text msg or something out if I have any signal at all. The mountain top is the best bet. One 3 word text msg could make all the difference in the world. At 12k you could be looking at 4' of snow in no time. If I saw that bull on the way down I'm sticking him for several reasons. 1- I'm going to be there for a few days anyway so dealing with the elk will give me something to do while I wait for the snow machines to show up. 2- I don't know how long I'm going to be stuck. I may very well need the food. 3- It would make a hell of a story !

For any guys reading this thread that don't have a lot of experience in the mountains, GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE ! Don't shoot the bull, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Get out.