bone in or out

by **ctdad** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 1]

If you are packing an elk out on your back, do you leave the bone in or do you take the meat off the bone? Why do you do it your way?

Anybody know rough weight differences between the two?

by **flystrait** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 2]

Always bone out. The average is bone is a 3rd of the weight of the animal qualified by many butchers I have spoke with. If you use this method being bone weighing 1/3rd with a 70lb hind quarter you could be roughly carrying 20lbs of extra weight why carry extra weight?. If its more than 500 yards to the truck I will bone out everytime. I just wished I figured this out alot earlier.. Hope this helps.

by **stringunner** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 3]

We go bone in. I like the stability on the pack frame that the bone provides. I don't know if it is worth it when you say it adds 20 more pounds, will have to think smarter about this in the future perhaps. We have never packed one more than 2 miles however on our backs (we have also used an atv and stock), any more than that and I would seriously consider boning it out if I had to pack it on my back. We also have always packed it out with at least two guys usually three. Solo however and I would probably bone it out.

by **WapitiTalk1** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 4]

Bone out for me if over 1/2 mile from destination (truck/quad). Also terrain dependent; no sense at all in packing bone up a thick hillside, even if it's only 500 yards below destination. It actually doesn't take that long to bone out an elk using the gutless method. If I can find the video Aron Snyder made a while back, I'll post it.. It's very similar to the way I prefer.

Edit: Here's the link. It's an older VID A. Snyder did for Outdoor Life. Very good instructional VID. Once it opens, just maximize the screen.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=aro ... 93D467004D

by **Swede** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 5]

The only time I take the bone out is when the pack out is very difficult or if I am helping someone who prefers to do it that way. Taking the bone out opens more meat to contamination.

by **ctdad** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 6]

Swede wrote:The only time I take the bone out is when the pack out is very difficult or if I am helping someone who prefers to do it that way. Taking the bone out opens more meat to contamination.

Has anyone ever experienced a problem with bone out meat getting contaminated and being spoiled or causing illness? I agree that the contamination risk is greater but not sure if there is a significant real world problem there? Not arguing, just not sure

by **cnelk** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 7]

I have packed elk meat with both the bone in and out.
There are a few things that determine if I debone

1- distance
2- time
3- weather
4- solo

Sometimes leaving the bone in makes the the meat easier to manage, especially if by yourself
- the weight of the bone is noticeable, but not significant.

by **Swede** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 8]

ctdad: Whereas I recognize the opportunity for micro organisms to get into the meat with extra cutting and exposure, I was mainly referring to hair, dirt, tree needles, etc. I believe I am as careful as anyone, and have been complimented by the butcher for always bringing in clean field butchered animals, there is always a little contamination. To some people this is no big deal. I am fussy about it.

by **Still Hunter** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 9]

I'm way too old to be hauling around bones. Bone out.

by **ctdad** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 10]

Swede, care to share any tips and tricks that help you keep the meat clean?

by **Swede** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 11]

1. I use game Allen game bags or pillow cases. They are dense enough to keep out contaminates. They are washed after every use.
2. If possible I will pull the dead elk a few feet to for a good place to work. If I gut first, then I pull the elk away from the guts and blood after I drain the animal.
3. I lay out the elk hide for a clean place to butcher as I skin. In addition I have an old bed sheet in my freighter pack. I spread it out for additional clean area to keep foreign material off of the meat.
4. I keep the inside of my freighter clean. It gets washed and aired out after each season.
5. I either hang the pieces up in the shade or lay them out in the game bags where it is clean.
6. Meat is placed in bags as soon as it is detached from the carcass.
I do not use my butchering tools for anything other than butchering game. No coyotes, no Warthogs, no nothing, and they are cleaned after each use. I do not go inside the sheaths and clean there.
Probably all of this is not much different than what others do with the exception of the bed sheet trick. I got a lot of bed sheets and pillow cases from a Best Western motel. If they get stained or the slightest tear they are thrown out. I got them just for asking.

by **Toby** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 12]

I try to leave bone in for greater stability. I may be going it solo this year so my try some both ways if I am lucky.

by **Indian Summer** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 13]

Bone in every time. No worry of bugs, dirt etc. And yes I have had problems with both as well as ashes in burns even with bone in. Also... as soon as you expose surfaces you get that dried layer on every outer portion which has to be trimmed of resulting in loss of meat. I have removed hide and bone once or twice before dropping at the processor to save money since they charge by green weight. But a few leg bones doesn't really make that big of a difference so I don't do that anymore.

by **Huntrgathr** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 14]

Almost always bone in.

1- Bone stock - More valuable than the meat

2- Easier to handle, pack, hang, etc.

3- Cleaner, less trim

flystrait wrote:Always bone out. The average is bone is a 3rd of the weight of the animal qualified by many butchers I have spoke with. If you use this method being bone weighing 1/3rd with a 70lb hind quarter you could be roughly carrying 20lbs of extra weight why carry extra weight?. If its more than 500 yards to the truck I will bone out everytime. I just wished I figured this out alot earlier.. Hope this helps.

The 1/3 bone weight is for the whole carcass. The bones from one hindquarter are maybe 5- 7# combined.

by **Elkduds** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 15]

I prefer bone in. Easier to tie to pack frame, or you can carry a bone-in quarter over the shoulder a short distance if you have no pack frame. Also seems easier to cool meat on quarters, meat is on a kind of bone rack rather than laying in a pile in a game bag.

by **elkmtngear** » 01 30, 2014 • [Post 16]

Bone in.

Same reasons as most, stability, easier to keep clean and manage.

If I had to pack out like 5 miles straight up...I might reconsider!

So far it has always been no more than two or three miles.

by **Indian Summer** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 17]

Elkduds wrote: Also seems easier to cool meat on quarters, meat is on a kind of bone rack rather than laying in a pile in a game bag.

Huntrgathr wrote: The 1/3 bone weight is for the whole carcass. The bones from one hindquarter are maybe 5- 7# combined.

Yep & yep! Plus it's easier for the processor to say "This is the round, these are the tips etc etc" instead of "What the heck is this?"

by **Bowhunter** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 18]

I leave the bone in for packing. I debone after I get it to the truck and place on ice in a freezer. I run the freezer on the way home 1000 plus miles. The meat is good and cold with the outside slightly frozen. I get a good nights sleep and process it the next day.

by **flystrait** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 19]

Here is a link to RMEF that states that the hindquarters have enough bone to shed roughly 30lbs by boning out for me that is huge. It is also a good discription for a how to bone out.

http://www.rmef.org/TheHunt/After/BoneOut.aspx

by **Mikeha33** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 20]

If it were warm, 75*+, and you were packing solo, 2 miles from the truck, would de-boning help to cool the meat faster, if one were able to get it in the shade and off the ground, or in a stream in contractor bags? Or would it cool faster on the bone in the same circumstance? I plan on bone in, because I have a strong back and legs, and that extra few pounds will not kill me, but given warmer temps, I'm not sure what would be the better choice.

by **Still Hunter** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 21]

Huntrgathr wrote:The 1/3 bone weight is for the whole carcass. The bones from one hindquarter are maybe 5- 7# combined.

You must be kidding? Have you held the bones?

by **elk.addict** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 22]

I almost always bone out my elk meat. It's just a matter of preference, the weight savings is minimal. I just like the way it loads better in my pack when it's boned out.

by **Indian Summer** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 23]

flystrait wrote:Here is a link to RMEF that states that the hindquarters have enough bone to shed roughly 30lbs by boning out for me that is huge. It is also a good discription for a how to bone out.

http://www.rmef.org/TheHunt/After/BoneOut.aspx

30 lbs would mean about 8 lbs for each hind and 7 for each front... or something like that. Sounds right on the money to me and in line with what Huntrgathr said. That's sawed off at the knee or with the knee joints separated... not hoof and all. Yes, I've held them in my hands.

by **Still Hunter** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 24]

Quote:

"A good way to ditch 30 pounds or more is to bone out an elk’s hindquarter."

by **Indian Summer** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 25]

Am I reading that right... the bone from one hind quarter is said to weigh 30 pounds? Um........ not a chance. Maybe if you forgot to remove the pelvis. :lol:

by **cnelk** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 26]

Indian Summer wrote:Am I reading that right... the bone from one hind quarter is said to weigh 30 pounds? Um........ not a chance. Maybe if you forgot to remove the pelvis.

Or left the hoof on...

30lbs?? Not a chance

by **Still Hunter** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 27]

Probably means both of them with hoofs. Still, if you cut off at the knees you're doing a somewhat boning. I've seen more than one guy carry out the whole quarter with the hoof sticking in the air.

All I know is i've tried boning and no boning, and I like taking out boned meat better. I'm just going to bone it out when I get home anyway. Why not do it in the field?

by **Indian Summer** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 28]

I already explained why I wait. I've done the over the shoulder or "Santa Claus method" myself. Still cut off at the knee though but bone in. I'm always trying to lose weight when I can.... not off the elk quarter... off of me!

by **Still Hunter** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 29]

The "why not do it in the field" was me talking to myself.

by **Indian Summer** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 30]

That's fine. But if you're going to talk to yourself try not to get mad at yourself ok. Wouldn't want to find out you pulled a muscle by trying to kick yourself in the a$$. :lol:

by **Trophyhill** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 31]

cnelk wrote:I have packed elk meat with both the bone in and out.
There are a few things that determine if I debone

1- distance
2- time
3- weather
4- solo

Sometimes leaving the bone in makes the the meat easier to manage, especially if by yourself
- the weight of the bone is noticeable, but not significant.

This^^^^^^^

by **Huntrgathr** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 32]

If the bones in a hind quarter weighed 30# each, the fronts might be 20# each. You guys are telling me there's 100# of bone in four elk quarters ? I thought I had a set of elk bones in my chest freezer but I already made them into stock. I did have 2 complete sets of deer leg bones. One set weighed 7.23# and the other was 7.35#. That would mean elk bones are 13.8 times larger than deer bones ? I think not. An average yearling or doe mule deer is 138# on the hoof. The average elk is about 550. So maybe 4 times the bone is more accurate - bringing us to that 30# mark for the WHOLE animal ( leg quarters). Out of curiosity, I googled it. Here's a good thread discussing the same question with at least two examples of guys actually weighing the bones. http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/t ... did=400456

Indian Summer - Don't want to put you on the spot but it's really much better to take the hide off the quarters for packing. First of all to cool them. Second, the hide is heavy. If you do a good job, your quarters will be just as clean and wholesome in good game bags.

Also, I see a lot if pics posted on here if quarters in game bags with the lower leg bone and hoof still attached. Do you guys cut those off before packing out ? Maybe that's where all these crazy weight estimates are coming from...

Anyway, how many of you use the bones for stock ? That's the more important question.

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by **Indian Summer** » 01 31, 2014 • [Post 33]

Can't say I disagree with that at all. I guess that we all do certain things because we become conditioned to them. I've done a lot of hunting in burns. Alot! Those ashes are like talcum powder! Even if you had a good game bag on a quarter they would infiltrate it like it was stark naked. So maybe it's just a habit I suppose. No doubt removing the hide is as big of a weight loss as bone and if you're not in an area like I just described... there's really no good reason to leave it on. OK maybe one: So you don't have to pack game bags around for a month for the one day you'll need them. As far as cooling: Assuming you made a quick job of tracking and recovering and got them off of the ground I don't think that's a concern. If I didn't find a bull until the next morning the yes... I'd be doing everything in my power to lose any remaining heat asap.

by **Still Hunter** » 02 01, 2014 • [Post 34]

There's something you guys are forgetting. We're not talking about the pure bone only that a butcher might end up with. We're talking about boning at the kill sight.

If you had a scale in the field you could try this experiment. Weight the quarter untouched but skinned. Then bone it. Now weight the meat you have from the quarter. Subtract that weight from what the untouched quarter weighed. You'll be surprised how much weight you saved.

Do that to 4 quarters, and it's almost one extra load you don't have to haul out. When you hunt solo. That matters. Especially, if you're trying to get the meat cooled off. Which should be a priority for everybody.

by **>>>---WW---->** » 02 01, 2014 • [Post 35]

http://www.wyomingextension.org/agpubs/pubs/B594R.pdf

If this old link is still working, it should end the discussion here

by **Swede** » 02 01, 2014 • [Post 36]

Huntrgathr: I always remove the lower legs. For me the difference between doing the gutless butchering and quartering, is that with gutless I leave the backbone, pelvis, and ribs. I suspect your estimate is pretty close. If I took out the leg bones when using the gutless method, then the difference between gutless and quartering would amount to about 50#. As Still Hunter wrote that amounts to nearly an extra load. In your picture, I did not see the backbone, pelvis or ribs. That could account to much of the difference.

by **mandrroofing** » 02 02, 2014 • [Post 37]

I like the pull out method myself...

by **Huntrgathr** » 11 08, 2014 • [Post 38]

Aprox. 3 year old Cow elk, gutless ( no saw) front and hind quarters without the shin/hoof bone... 20.5#

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by **Indian Summer** » 11 09, 2014 • [Post 39]

Huntr... so the total weight of all the leg bones was only 20.5 pounds? That's not bad at all.

I guess how each hunter goes about things depends on some variables. How you will pack it out and how far you will pack it out being the main ones. In addition to bone in or out we've talked about hide on or off too.

But... THE bottom line is to have good clean unspoiled meat.

For that reason as I've said above I will kill myself to go bone in/hide on. This is an old thread but I think I remember someone questioning my hide on theory. Keep in mind my way of doing things is assuming you've made a quick recovery.... not finding the animal the next morning.

Lately I've been using horses but even when I don't I do things the same. While horses may seem ideal because it speeds up the pack out process keep in mind that until I get to the truck my quarters are up against the side of a horse that is sweating his rocky mountain oysters off. This year when I killed my elk it was downright hot out. I quartered it out in a polyester t-shirt and no hat. Flies were a problem too. I used the gutless method getting the backstraps out first and then separating the quarters from the main carcass which is the key. With hide on I put it all in panniers and started the 2 hour ride out in mid day heat. When I got out I carefully removed the hide doing my best to not have much hair on the meat. I actually pick as much of it off as I can. I had horses to take care of before heading to town for ice. Dry ice! No water.

The quarters ate that ice up pretty quick and the next morning before starting the 27.5 hour drive back east I re-iced the quarters in large coolers. One with 2 fronts and back straps and one with the hinds. Dry ice does wonders and when I got back I had just a few small chips left and the meat was a bit frozen where it was up against them.

Once home, the next morning I laid everything out on my stainless table and carefully removed any damaged meat and every single hair. Then I took them to my processor. When I picked my meat up he made the comment... "Wow, not a hair. That is the first game ever dropped here that did not have even an eyelash on it" I told him I live on elk and I'm extremely picky. Who wants to open packs of meat and see the occasional hair! Elk stink and having an elk hair on your meat will certainly not help the flavor.

In the end my meat this year is some of the best I've ever had. Bone in and hide on means zero exposure to bugs and dirt. My processor in Montana calls that "natures game bag" and I agree. In my experience just getting the quarters away from the guts and off the ground is all you need to do assuming you made that quick recovery. The stuff doesn't start to self destruct if you do anything less than that. The thought of boning out elk exposing every single cut to not only dirt but the air alone is not appealing to me at all. Hair within the meat is almost guaranteed too. Not for me. So for me the bottom line is leaving things intact as much as possible means fine food in the end. I have never had meat go bad doing things this way.

You only pack elk once a year. But you eat it all year. So packing that extra weight might mean a few ibuprofens at the end of the day but I think it's well worth it. After typing this post... I think I'll go thaw a filet!

by **brun** » 11 09, 2014 • [Post 40]

Bone in for me. Usually hide off in good bags. I only leave the lower leg on if the pack is very short, less than 1/4 mile. Then I leave the hide on and use the over the shoulder method.

by **Indian Summer** » 11 09, 2014 • [Post 41]

brun wrote:Bone in for me. Usually hide off in good bags. I only leave the lower leg on if the pack is very short, less than 1/4 mile. Then I leave the hide on and use the over the shoulder method.

Works for me too. Good bags are fine. I'd just be extra careful not to let my quarters touch the ground at all.

Over the shoulder... we call that the Santa Claus method. :lol:

Gotta leave the lower leg intact for that.

by **pointysticks** » 11 10, 2014 • [Post 42]

if i have the chance, bone in.

i just break it down to big primals..rear hinds, front leg/shoulders, and bags of random meat, i try to keep straight in terms of body location.

if i was packing it out from a backpack camp..bone out.

the bones are awesome. i love grilling them, and making stock. next time, i want to saw the rears into shank bones.

by **Bowhunter** » 11 11, 2014 • [Post 43]

I like the bone in for the way it fits in my pack. I cut the leg bones off at the knee on my bull this year. I weighed the legs at home then weighed the bones. Here goes: Hind quarters (legs) weighed #67 and #69 bone in. The front quarters. Front leg with loins was #72 and the other front leg with trimings from neck and pelvis bone #82. Total #290. I weighed the front each #8 and rear leg each #7 bones. So remove #30 for bones and about #20 for fat and trimmings. I netted #240 of edible meat.

Now that I know the real weight I would bone out in the field if I had a long pack job. I had a 1.5 mile downhill with my bull this year and the first .5 was over a lot of blowdowns. It wasn't too bad but it could have been easier with less weight. I used an emergency blanket to lay the leg on while I tried to bag it by myself. Them things are thin and tear easy. I will carry a folded up plastic sheet next year. I Vaccume seal my game bags and can put the plastic sheet in there with a pair of latex gloves. Neat and compact.

by **Indian Summer** » 11 11, 2014 • [Post 44]

Bowhunter wrote: I Vaccume seal my game bags.

Brilliant! :idea:

by **kevin_t** » 11 11, 2014 • [Post 45]

For me, it depends. I would prefer bone in if possible, becausue I think it is a bit cleaner and then I can have bone stock. The reality is, it's often a mix and for various reasons. I got a deer the other day, sort of far back and while I would have liked to bone out everything , I left two quarters in, because I knew it was going to be a race to get to an area where I could get good visibility and bearing before sunset. As it was, I made it with about 5 minutes of light left which was awesome because I was able to get my bearings so to speak and figure out where I needed to go next (over a 4 hr pack out solo)

by **otcWill** » 11 12, 2014 • [Post 46]

Bone in on small bulls or cows, or if we have horses; bone out on big bulls because the quarters won't fit in my pack unless deboned