Map Help

[Backcountry]

I have been playing a lot lately trying to learn some of my elk areas better using topo's. Here is a sample area I grabbed from somewhere in ID, sorry if I am giving away any spots I marked what I thought were potential bedding areas (yellow) and wallows (blue). Whats the input here from you experts?

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[JohnFitzgerald]

You might also want to use Google Earth. It will give you a better idea of density of the timber. I've included one of my images.

p.s. On your map, right at the 4453 mark next to the road would be a great place to locate bugle.

[reeperman311]

I like both maps. The first map is good for seeing elv levels and the second map is good for seeing cover. at least that is what my dad has told me.

[WapitiTalk1]

No expert here but I like how you've targeted the head ends of draws for seeps and possible wallows. If there are elk in this overall area, you'll find some activity there for almost certain. I like how you marked some mostly east facing slopes (in addition to the N slopes for bedding areas) but I think you may want to pencil in some more E facing slopes on the steeper draws on the N side of the main ridge for potential bedding areas. You may be a bit high on your yellow (bedding areas) on some of your marks.... 2/3 to 3/4 the way up the mountain side for those considerations when you're remote scouting. As JF mentioned, the ridge running to the right of EL Mark 4453 E/NE all the way to the shown 4000' EL Mark above Stewart Creek is prime bugling/locating territory with an emphasis on the E facing side of the draws running S to N. I also like the saddle area SW of the QUAD number 29, and, the blue you've marked at the head end of that draw, and, the hillside across to the N of that saddle. How thick (tall alder, HB brush, is this area)? Good luck!

[Swede]

Backcountry: Good question. I would not expect to find wallows where you marked blue on the map. The stream gradient is consistently very steep. Look at flat areas including small benches. This does not mean there can be no microsites in your blue marked area, where elk can form a wallow. It has been my experience that most wallows are found on spots where the water does not wash away the soil and there is sufficient wet earth for an elk to get down and dirty. A good G.E. view of your mapped area would provide a look at the vegetation along your marked streams. The G.E. view could either improve or decrease the likelihood of finding wallows there. If you can find a small bench in these head waters of the creeks where vegetation, usually alder, restricts the flow of water and you have a small bench, the elk could potentially wallow in those places. When it comes to nature and wildlife a good rule of thumb is to never say never. The reverse is also true. Where ever you go, look for places where the soil holds some water. Gravel and rocks are usually not good wallow locations.

[cnelk]

First off, everyone knows that each square on that map is 1 mile right?

Wallows arent always high on mountain.They can be lower in elevation as bulls will wallow when they are down feeding prior to heading back up.
I would definitely look for a wallow in Grid 29, Downstream of your small blue mark, right at the small elbow. It looks like it opens up just a bit.
Then just uphill to the south of that spot, there is a small saddle. The elk could use use that to cross over to that other small stream.
In Grid 30, just south of the word 'Spur' is also a nice place to scout. Looks like a saddle.
Also in Grid 30 there are 2 confluences that look like could be small meadows. Another area to look for sign, wallows.

If I was to scout that area, I wouldnt look at anything above 3800-3900 in elevation

[Peskadot]

Cnelk, why wouldn't you look at anything above 3800-3900 ft? Curious....

[cnelk]

Why should I?
If there are elk there, they will come down. They wont stay high in that particular area.
I will see more sign at 3800/3900 and below when the elk move around to feed/water and be social.

[Indian Summer]

Why should I?
If there are elk there, they will come down. They wont stay high in that particular area.
I will see more sign at 3800/3900 and below when the elk move around to feed/water and be social.

Exactly. Cnelk isn't talking too far downslope. The area tops out at about 4400. You're on the right track Backcountry. But elk will pass over the top, sometimes leaving little to no sign. They may spend time up there at night feeding if there's no feed lower. But they will spend the majority of their time a fair distance from the top at the first forgiving spot in the contour lines.

As far as wallows you've highlighted the obvious spots. But instead of lines I'd have just placed dots a hair above where the blue actually indicates running water. Seeps occur above the heads of streams. Again, Brad is right when he says they can be lower too but low wallows aren't something we can look for on a map. They take boot leather to find.

Bedding: The spots highlighted in section 30 don't catch my eye at all. Too steep although the one at the head of the creek coming from the section below definitely has potential but the potential is probably a little lower. The horseshoe shaped highlight furthest south on the map is in a great spot... but to agree with Brad again I'd be looking lower.... near that little flat spot to the southeast of the 4200 mark and right next to water. AND the subtle finger between your mark and the 4200.

Also that big flat to the east of that right beside the map key. That one is a part of a big bench too. "like" I see a small flat peeking out right below the word "markers". See that? I guarantee there an old bed and probably a rub and some elkduds there. Other spots where I'd look for beds are: the easternmost finger in section 29, from the 3600 mark up to maybe 4000 on the north side of the ridge. Also... notice the little subtle wide spot in the contour lines right below the word Stewart? Again, right where Brad suggested around the 3900 ft mark. An ideal elevation usually hold true everywhere in a given area. Once I find elk I stick with that number as I move around. With that in mind one more: The extreme top right portion of your map, right near the words "satellite" & "mapnik" looks like a hell of a spot. First of all it's at the right number for the area. What makes it even better is that A) it's further from the road B) If anyone came out that piece of cake ridge to Spur Point, they would have to give up ALL of their elevation and climb the other side to hunt it. Putting one more obstacle like that which requires a commitment to hard sweaty work, especially if they kill something, can make all the difference in the world. We hear people say all the time, I saw some sign but just never got into them. The reason is depicted very well on this map.... it's a great example of where one more step could have turned that whole statement right around. The elk on that side probably sit and listen to bugles from Spur Point all the time and sit there smiling with their mouths shut.

This was an awesome map to talk about some things! Hope I helped. Get over there MTLongdraw!

P.S. The tabs on your computer screen cracked me up!!! Looks like mine. You have ELK ON THE BRAIN my man!

[Backcountry]

Thanks for all of the help guys! I will take all of this info an relay it into all of the maps of my areas.

[cnelk]

As I review the topo more, I am wanting to see the bigger area around the map more.
Like IS mentioned, there are other spots on the fringes that are intriguing that may play a role in the original map.

[Backcountry]

As I review the topo more, I am wanting to see the bigger area around the map more.
Like IS mentioned, there are other spots on the fringes that are intriguing that may play a role in the original map.

If I can find this original spot again I will get a bigger image Maybe I'll find a new spot and post a clean image too see what everyone else would put their marks.

[Backcountry]

New Map. Again totally random spot somewhere in central ID. We will assume for conversations sake that the red road is driveable. I have my marks done, just want to see how they relate to everyone else.

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[Swede]

Help me a little here guys. For all I know Backcountry could have picked up a spot in the Owyhee country. I see no vegetation other than the broad brush colored areas, old fire scares or any openings. Nada, except a short piece of road, contour lines and stream courses. Sure there are section lines shown, but since elk don't read maps, they are paying no attention to them. It seems to me you are making some major assumptions here. Can you explain please? Thanks

[JohnFitzgerald]

Help me a little here guys. For all I know Backcountry could have picked up a spot in the Owyhee country. I see no vegetation other than the broad brush colored areas, old fire scares or any openings. Nada, except a short piece of road, contour lines and stream courses. Sure there are section lines shown, but since elk don't read maps, they are paying no attention to them. It seems to me you are making some major assumptions here. Can you explain please? Thanks

+1 Swede. That's why I always use my topo's as the starting point but cross reference with an aerial.

For others, I too find very little elk sign on the tops. But one thing I learned over the years, elk can be anywhere and everywhere. Guess I'm less concerned with pin pointing possible bedding and feeding area's and more concerned with overall general habitat. If there's elk in the area, I will locate them with a location bugle. Then go from there.

p.s. reeperman311(my son) That-a-boy!

[Swede]

Thanks John. My point as you know is to make this thread more informative to everyone here. Many hunters on the forum have never been to Idaho. They do not have an understanding of the differences between panhandle and south and central Idaho. There is a huge difference in habitat between 3500 ft.-4000ft. on the north end of the State and the south. East side vs. West side also has a big difference. I also wonder is everyone can tell the difference between a perennial stream and an intermittent one on a map. That is important too.