Elk Video

[JohnFitzgerald]

So here's another video for you to watch. You might have to turn your audio up really loud.



Here's some things to note:

1)
:11 Based on the bulls bugle, does he seem aggitated? Is he warning another bulls? Listen very closely at :17.

2)
:35 Notice what the bull does with his head? Aggitated that his cows are spread so far appart?

3)
:45 Do you hear the high pitch of a distant bugle?

4)
1:34 What did this bugle mean? Was it directed at the cows? Was he assuring the cows of his dominance or was it a warning to the intruder?

5)
1:48 This is the most interesting bugle. What did this bugle mean? Once again, was he talking to his cows trying to keep them close or was he warning another bull? Watch his head movements emmdiately after his bugle stops.

6)
2: 13 Pants? Why? Trying to quitely keep his cows close to his side?

7)
2:24 Bugle is a little higher pitched and not as raspy. It also has chuckles at the end. What's happening here?

8)
3:06 What is the bull doing? Herding his cows away from the intruder? Then at 3:12 he bugles. Challenge bugle? As hunters, ever get a bull fired up and then all of a suddent he leaves?

9)
3:47 - 3:58 Hear the cow calls? The first bugle......was that more of a dominating bugle or inventational bugle? Hear the difference in the second one?

I want to hear everyones thoughts on it. Some make sense to me but others just seems confusing?

[flystrait]

John,

As I watched and listened, I came away with the thought that the whole time this Bull was being filmed there was never a time that I thought I heard a warning or challenge bugle. I also heard glunks along with pants. Those two together told me the girls where the only thing on his mind. His head down and picking up speed to the cows is a dominance posture for sure. Just as whitetail bucks would chase a doe. Most if not all the bugling I heard was directed in some manner to the cows either keeping them together, showing he's in charge etc. I have never tried to dissect each and every sound, I try to read the situation and emotion that is being shown or heard. I always watched my horses for years and the behavior. Have you ever seen a horse away from the barn all wound up and start whinnying and pulling on the bit to try to turn around. Is he or she calling to a mare, gelding or stud? Is he or she just want to go back to the barn and be lazy?

I believe we can over think every detail at times and not soak in the bigger picture of what’s really happening to allow us to make a good decision. My employees call it having blinders on. That’s just my two cents.

Craig

[JohnFitzgerald]

Ah good points Craig!

So, we can obviously tell that the unseen bull is in fact a person blowing what appears to be a external reed bugle. If it was a hunter, what do you think he was thinking? Maybe "man I got this bull all fired up and he's ready to fight". What was the bull really doing? Herding off his cows or getting ready for a fight! Like I questioned before, ever have a vocal bull just up and disappear on you?

I thought I heard glunks as well but couldn't rule out camera noise so I didn't include them.

[Willie makit]

Awesome video, i definitely need to find some more videos like this that have the sounds and movement to study, especially the cow sounds interacting with the bulls. I haven't made my first elk hunt yet and want to have a good "feeling" of what to expect when I get out there. Most of the hunting videos I've run across are not very good and spend too much time worrying about the "shot" and advertising equipment.

I'm already a major shareholder in elk nuts videos and audio cd's but nothing compares to seeing body posture and interaction in the wild.

Thanks for posting

[Swede]

I always had trouble with long tests. Here is my short answer. I see a bull that is not excessively agitated. He warns the distant bull and tends his cows and moves them away. The glunks are his way of reminding them of his presence. It is worth noting that the other bull is on the other side of his cows and our herd bull has remained relatively calm.

[cnelk]

This bull is doing nothing more than patrolling his area, checking the wind and cows.
He is calling to any distant cows, and also letting other bulls he is in the area.
He is relaxed.

This is very good example of when to put your calls away, slip in and do your job...

I would have shot him at about the 45 second mark and the only sounds that matter after that would have been him crashing.

[>>>---WW---->]

This bull is doing nothing more than patrolling his area, checking the wind and cows.
He is calling to any distant cows, and also letting other bulls he is in the area.
He is relaxed.

This is very good example of when to put your calls away, slip in and do your job...

I would have shot him at about the 45 second mark and the only sounds that matter after that would have been him crashing.

I'll go along with what Brad said 99%! The 1% I sort of disagree with is that this bull isn't really relaxed. He is trying to manage his harem of girls. I suppose that could be a little frustrating at times. LOL! Here is a tip for you. Turn off the sound and just watch the video. You'll be more apt to see what is really going on. And like Brad said, It's time to shut up, sneak in, and hang this guy on your wall.

Don't try to over think it. This bull is prime for the picking.

[JohnFitzgerald]

I think going silent and sneaking in is definately a good tactic. Might even be better to keep a guy bugling off in the distance so the shooter knows where the bulls current location is.

But.......what about terrain you hunt? This tactic might work on some but not others. I hunt some area's where it's so thick, you can not put a successful stock on without making a ton of noise. If you can't make a successful stock, what's the other options? Sitting 150 yards away calling at this bull is only going to result in one thing. The caller on the video discovered what happens.

[Swede]

I think you are right John. Also when it is relatively open it is impossible to slip in close enough to the herd to get a shot with a bow. I would stay silent if the herd was moving my way, but if the hunter was in the position of the unseen bull, I think slipping in fairly close and challenging the herd bull would be effective. Ultimately you buy your tag and take your chances.

[flystrait]

Ah good points Craig!

So, we can obviously tell that the unseen bull is in fact a person blowing what appears to be a external reed bugle. If it was a hunter, what do you think he was thinking? Maybe "man I got this bull all fired up and he's ready to fight". What was the bull really doing? Herding off his cows or getting ready for a fight! Like I questioned before, ever have a vocal bull just up and disappear on you?

I thought I heard glunks as well but couldn't rule out camera noise so I didn't include them.

What was the potential hunter thinking? Probable the same thing I thought for many years, if I heard a bull bugling no matter from what distance bugle back at him.
What was the bull doing? Well in my opinion several things 1) keeping track of the herd 2) Letting them know where he is and who is in charge 3) Scent checking the cows and surrounding area 4) Pushing cows away from direction of the other bugler.
Have I ever had a vocal bull just up and disappear? Well yes and no for several reasons. 1) Elk in my opinion have flight or fight reactions just like many people. Room across the room they can be loud and obnoxious but try to run right at them and they run the other way Hmmm let’s keep it simple and remember an action is going to create a reaction like it or not. What we try to do is put them in a situation to get the reaction or outcome we are looking for, which is not always easy. Food for thought.
Craig

[JohnFitzgerald]

I actually think that bugle at :11 was in fact a Warning Bugle. Bulls would rather avoid a fight, but mature herd bulls will defend their dominance if challenged. Using your room analogy, if you want someone to fight try pinning them in the corner. Don't announce it as you walk across. Give them no chose but to defend themselves. Getting in close to a bull like this and using timed threatening sounds is pinning them in the corner. If he feels he cant gets his cows away in time, do you think he'd just run off and leave them? As you can see in this video, this bull wasn't worried about the intruder but was irritated that his cows were wondering. I think a lot of hunters have been in this exact position and think that every bugle is a warning. I too read the entire picture, but without a visual every bugle and sound needs to be analyzed. If you don't you might just miss the bus.

Many different ways to hunt this bull. Sitting back bugling at him from a distance will lead one outcome.

Maybe another good idea is to work in on the herd silently and give him the impression that one of his cows wondered a little to far off. With a distant annoyance, maybe he'd be a little more eager to come in fast and get her back into the herd quickly. What does everyone think?

[Glacier Country]

I am a confident elk caller.More confident in my ability to call him in then my ability to sneak all of the way in to take him. So I will sneak in to the point where I think that I can make him come in to me. Make the sounds I think he wants to hear, it will either work out or it won't.I have some friends who like to sneak in and shoot them, but for me that is not how I like to take them... I had this conversation with a good buddy of mine before I shot my bull this past season. As much as this bull is bugling and advertising to other bulls that these are his girls ( it impresses the girls too) I like my odds! I am going to pick a fight with him! There is more than 1 way to skin this cat.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Thanks guys, a lot of great tactics were mentioned. Neither outways the others. But the most subtle and interesting point is that none of them involve sitting a ways back bugling at the bull in an attempt to bring him in.

Lastely, be careful. Not every bugle you hear in the woods is a warning bugle!

Just my 2-cents and worth nothing more.

jf