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Colorado elk herd numbers

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Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 01 28, 2021 •  [Post 1]

I just received my annual Preference Point issue of Colorado Outdoors. CPW sure seems they be blowing smoke up someone's butt by inflating figures in order to keep license sales up. I have every issue since 2005. Going back to 2015, the total herd count for the state was 264030. Now it is 292760? Anyone see 22,000+ more? I sure haven't.

Looking at a few individual herds, in which I have hunted,they claim the White River herd, that encompasses quite a few Big Game units, grew 92000 more elk. The Eagle Nest Wilderness herd (Piney River herd) which is 35, 36 units stayed the same, about 3800-3900 elk.Talking to the local WCO, he told me that herd is the lowest they ever counted and advised not hunting there. Unit 54 which is North of Gunnison is hard to extrapolate, but use to be about 6300 by itself, but is now included in Unit 53 an another and shows about 7700. It is not showing any great increase in numbers since they cut it down to about 3100 back in 2015-2016 since selling those OTC cow and bull tags with a cap of 500.
I don' t think they have clue as to the true number of elk because they do small counts and then let a computer simulate the totals
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Swede » 01 28, 2021 •  [Post 2]

Don't worry Vince. When they get those wolves in there, the elk numbers will come down to a level they can actually count. Instead of competition from hunters, you can wait on little old ladies with tennis shoes, a Latte, and a pair of binoculars while they are out scanning the mountain sides. :shock:
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Indian Summer » 01 29, 2021 •  [Post 3]

Maybe they forgot the decimal point between the 6 and the zero! Hahahalmao!
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 01 29, 2021 •  [Post 4]

Swede wrote:Don't worry Vince. When they get those wolves in there, the elk numbers will come down to a level they can actually count. Instead of competition from hunters, you can wait on little old ladies with tennis shoes, a Latte, and a pair of binoculars while they are out scanning the mountain sides. :shock:


Although my hunting days are about over, I am almost glad I am done with it. Hunting in Colorado has followed the rest of the liberal agenda. CPW is putting more money in outdoor recreation that does not include hunting. I do feel sorry for all the younger guys that think Colorado has an elk behind every tree and spend thousands of dollars for a camping trip and they can hike around the woods with a rifle or bow
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby >>>---WW----> » 01 29, 2021 •  [Post 5]

The CPW has two ways to determine elk herd numbers. WAG and SWAG. That's Wild Arse Guess and Scientific Wild Arse Guess !
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 01 29, 2021 •  [Post 6]

>>>---WW----> wrote:The CPW has two ways to determine elk herd numbers. WAG and SWAG. That's Wild Arse Guess and Scientific Wild Arse Guess !


You would be surprised at the number of people who think CPW's numbers are gospel
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Magic » 02 16, 2021 •  [Post 7]

Looks like we should be able to make a trip this year. My son Marty has enough PP's (7) to draw a 2nd season Bull tag in an area where we have been successful in the past. We shall see.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Mike_Parson » 05 09, 2021 •  [Post 8]

as a very novice elk hunter i do have a general question on this topic. I have tried to figure out what units offer the best elk to hunter ratio and ample access to hunting grounds for an OTC riffle hunt. My online search for information and info i got from the CWD showed that units 71 and 70 and 13 were the best odds of a successful harvest, but when i look at the public hunting areas in those units its a joke3 and it seems most of those hunting stats are private land hunters harvest numbers. can anyone help a guy just l0oking to put boots on the ground and have a chance at a shot at an elk. i dont need honey holes but a unit and general areas on that unit would be greatly appreciated. i will do lots of scouting and research to figure out the best plan of attack. i just need help figuring out what unit to try to attack. Thank you in advance.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 05 09, 2021 •  [Post 9]

Mike_Parson wrote:as a very novice elk hunter i do have a general question on this topic. I have tried to figure out what units offer the best elk to hunter ratio and ample access to hunting grounds for an OTC riffle hunt. My online search for information and info i got from the CWD showed that units 71 and 70 and 13 were the best odds of a successful harvest, but when i look at the public hunting areas in those units its a joke3 and it seems most of those hunting stats are private land hunters harvest numbers. can anyone help a guy just l0oking to put boots on the ground and have a chance at a shot at an elk. i dont need honey holes but a unit and general areas on that unit would be greatly appreciated. i will do lots of scouting and research to figure out the best plan of attack. i just need help figuring out what unit to try to attack. Thank you in advance.


I am assuming you are interested in archery? Either way ,any OTC unit is over hunted. You need to remove one of your post.Either this one or the one above requesting help.

71 is almost all public land and 13 is probably BLM land. Of the three ,go with 71. However,that is some rugged country down there. I can only offer info on 2-3 draw units
Take any info from CPW about likelyhood of success with a grain of salt. Archery success is below 10%. They mostly want your money.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Mike_Parson » 05 09, 2021 •  [Post 10]

I didn't realize I was breaking some rule for posting my question in multiple places. I was just looking for advice not trying to cause an issue. Guess I'll try in another forum since this one seems to be so sensitive!!!!
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Lefty » 05 09, 2021 •  [Post 11]

Statistics are just that. As an individual any person could be on any side of a statistic. And the whole stat doesn't say it all

I use to hunt an area that had crazy stats. One year I was the only person who shot smaller than 6x6; But looking closer the average number of days hunted in the unit per hunter was 17. Yes 17 days . 70 man days to kill an elk,,,
But the statistic I found out on my own that wasn't included. There were guys that had 2,3 or more helpers looking for those big bulls. there were hunters who scouted and scouted some more. there were fellows who moved to Idaho just to hunt that unit. These guys weren't just hunting any elk or just any bull they hunted big bulls , at the expense of tag soup.

Yes often private land hunts can be much more successful. Lots of reasons.

Ive hunted a lot of places, mostly because I lived nearby. But one of the things I do, and this is just me. I hunt areas that somehow satisfy me. Basically I end up it places to hunt where most do not or will not hunt. I hate my day to be messed up by others.
Part of my enjoyment is the solitude a place offers me, being able to work animals without interference.

Ive hunted the solitude of desert wilderness, low producing public forest ground. And even more so with waterfowl.
An area or region may have "x" % of take "success". How ever your odds can be increased by hunting this basin or that canyon.

Personally I find a place I want to hunt,,, and to heck with the odds.
An area that has 50% success yearly , some guys kill elk there every year. other may hunt 6 or seven years for an elk in that same unit.
Any area can be good or not good. at all.

A neighbor drew a hunt on CWMU in NW Utah. The area killed every bull allowed each year and all, without exception was over 320
He didn't follow long standing knowledge after Sept 10-12th there wasnt an elk with n 20 miles of the place. He was on the outs of the odds, A units stats dont always mean a thing on an individuals success.
Then a former student his family killed their elk every year ,,,, yes every year before noon. They ranched the public land and were on the elk at legal shooting, for five generations.

Im an avid water fowler.
I often hunt traffic fields or fields that may only have a handfull of geese. But I only need four.
Or the case with elk, I only need one
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 05 10, 2021 •  [Post 12]

In individual units units Lefty,that may be true,but when you take the entire state and say the elk herd grew by 22,000 elk and talk/hear from many elk hunters, outfitters, and individual CPW officers that see less and less elk it doesn't ring true.

I agree that a person that gets on the CPW web site, goes thru hundreds of pages of statistics, of draw results, herd numbers. harvest data, hunter days in the woods per kill,etc and takes that info as gospel is putting too much faith in it.
I would much rather hunt an ares with fewer elk that I know very well,than hunt an area that CPW tells me there are a lot of elk there, but I don't know well
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Old school » 05 10, 2021 •  [Post 13]

Mike - Several here are giving you good advice. I’ve archery hunted multiple OTC units in Colorado and here’s my advice. Pick a unit that you want to go see. Then spend a lot of time on several mapping sites - Google Earth, etc... and find spots A,B,C - H that you would like to camp in, that way you have multiple places you’ve scouted and won’t be discouraged when the first 5 places you pull into already have 3-4 camps setup there, just keep driving till you find the least pressured one. Get boots on the ground and go learn an area - that’s what I’ve done.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Lefty » 05 10, 2021 •  [Post 14]

Old School suggestions are sound advise.


Ive picked places to hunt and trap for all sorts of reasons, road use indices, preditor populations , cover crop, land ownership, acres in CRP, county population, topography, and likely a dozen other things, available surface water, distance to the nearest house., heck motor restrictions, access limitations, elevation, topography, cell service, lack of cell service
And others, a place to shower, and sleep! the list is long




saddlesore wrote:,,,,,,,t when you take the entire state and say the elk herd grew by 22,000 elk and talk/hear from many elk hunters, outfitters, and individual CPW officers that see less and less elk it doesn't ring true.,,,,,l

Counts can easily be off, decimal in the wrong place, someone doesnt know math, clerical errors, someone's bias, too much snow, too little snow,.. sitting on the wrong side of the plane, over estimates, underestimates
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Indian Summer » 05 11, 2021 •  [Post 15]

My advice is numbbers don’t lie so pick the units just north of all those. They are called Wyoming and Montana. Seriously.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 05 11, 2021 •  [Post 16]

Indian Summer wrote:My advice is numbers don’t lie so pick the units just north of all those. They are called Wyoming and Montana. Seriously.


Yep. I get quite a few messages/emails from people asking where to go,what unit,etc especially for OTC hunts. I can't
in good conscience recommend any and now days give them the same advice. Colorado is all about money now days.

Legislature just past and our liberal governor signed it. All vehicle registration will have a $ fee added to them and this money will go to the parks side of the CPW. Bad enough that when wildlife and parks were combined,they started sucking money out of the wildlife funds although they denied it.Now every registered vehicle will get hit,including trailers.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Lefty » 05 11, 2021 •  [Post 17]

Indian Summer wrote:My advice is numbbers don’t lie so pick the units just north of all those. They are called Wyoming and Montana. Seriously.


Joe has a good solution!
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby RAMMONT » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 18]

If you think that the elk heard numbers in Montana are all that great then Colorado must be absolutely terrible. You aren't going to find easy hunting on public land here either.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Swede » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 19]

Elk hunting open public land has never been easy. When I was a kid, getting an elk was a difficult proposition. I was not naturally gifted as an elk genius, and I did not live on a ranch where they grazed leisurely all day. The difference between the good old days and now is that elk hunting has become very popular. Hunters push elk into places where we can't or won't go. They push them where they have excellent hiding cover.
Elk hunting has become big business. Just look at our sponsors, and in the mirror. If elk hunting was not very popular, we and our sponsors would not be here. The challenge is not to make elk hunting easier, but to learn to be more effective. I am like some of you here. I am in my 70s now and I am challenged just to get out or just to draw my bow. I hope to have a few more good hunts, but only the Lord knows. There is no use griping about State game management. The elk are there. Just go out and find them.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby 7mmfan » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 20]

Swede wrote:Elk hunting open public land has never been easy. When I was a kid, getting an elk was a difficult proposition. I was not naturally gifted as an elk genius, and I did not live on a ranch where they grazed leisurely all day. The difference between the good old days and now is that elk hunting has become very popular. Hunters push elk into places where we can't or won't go. They push them where they have excellent hiding cover.
Elk hunting has become big business. Just look at our sponsors, and in the mirror. If elk hunting was not very popular, we and our sponsors would not be here. The challenge is not to make elk hunting easier, but to learn to be more effective. I am like some of you here. I am in my 70s now and I am challenged just to get out or just to draw my bow. I hope to have a few more good hunts, but only the Lord knows. There is no use griping about State game management. The elk are there. Just go out and find them.


Man... Swede telling it like it is. I like it ;)
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Tigger » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 21]

Man Swede is old!
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 22]

This discussion isn't about easy or hard to hunt elk on public land.I am older than Swede by a few years and have always had better than average kill success. Up until 1-2 years ago. Better than 95%. Now I am too old and gimped up to continue.

The discussion is about Colorado Parks and Wildlife outright, blatantly inflating elk herd numbers in order to sell more licenses.I have experienced a decline in elk numbers now for about the last ten years.I have hunted them in Colorado for 46 years and of those seasons, I have missed one year. It isn't only me. I have talked to outfitters, many DYI hunters, social media reflects it, even local game wardens and they all agree.

If people want to say it does no good to complain about state management,then go ahead,but I am not about to accept the fact hat it has become a financial endeavor rather than managing our elk herds with sound management practices. If this continues you may look forward to elk hunting consisting of hiking around the woods and camping, carrying a bow or rifle. Maybe your state has no elk or a few elk and you think anything is better than nothing. I live here and don't.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Swede » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 23]

I live and hunt Oregon. I hear the same excuses year after year. I moved my hunting area because hunting became ridiculously hard where I had been. It was not that the elk were gone, but rather they were pushed onto ranches living behind "No Hunting" signs.
I sat in public meetings with ODF&W where the ranchers were complaining that the game department was undercounting the elk. They wanted compensation for the elk damage. ODF&W declined to pay them, but suggested they permit hunters to hunt their land. The ranchers said we leave the gates open, bla, bla. It is the same complaints year after year. I suspect that when the elk numbers really go down, the number of tags they can sell will follow suit. I suspect when the elk on ranches becomes a real problem the ranchers will permit some hunters on their land. Just a guess.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 24]

I am not offering excuses. I have herd count numbers from CPW going back to 2005. My original post only went back to 2015.
I can give anyone names and telephone numbers of WCO' s and outfitters that hunt public land that will back up my figures.

CPW sells unlimited OTC tags every year,with no consequences of more or less elk. Two years ago,the changed several units in the SW part of the state from OTC to draw for archery stating the reason was for fewer elk and too much hunting pressure.Then when it took effect, they sold a comparable amount of tags thru the draw that they did previously for OTC. I can site half a dozen such policy changes like this that are hardly excuses.

I want people to know that are shelling out $800 or so for a NR elk license, that Colorado is not a mecca for elk hunting especially if they plan to hunt OTC public land.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby RAMMONT » 05 13, 2021 •  [Post 25]

Swede wrote:Elk hunting open public land has never been easy. When I was a kid, getting an elk was a difficult proposition. I was not naturally gifted as an elk genius, and I did not live on a ranch where they grazed leisurely all day. The difference between the good old days and now is that elk hunting has become very popular. Hunters push elk into places where we can't or won't go. They push them where they have excellent hiding cover.
Elk hunting has become big business. Just look at our sponsors, and in the mirror. If elk hunting was not very popular, we and our sponsors would not be here. The challenge is not to make elk hunting easier, but to learn to be more effective. I am like some of you here. I am in my 70s now and I am challenged just to get out or just to draw my bow. I hope to have a few more good hunts, but only the Lord knows. There is no use griping about State game management. The elk are there. Just go out and find them.


It's obvious that you didn't understand my comment.

I wasn't talking about finding an easy place to hunt, you aren't the only person that's hunted elk for a half dozen decades. I was simply implying that the published numbers that imply that Montana has large population counts aren't accurate either.

Thanks though, it always makes me feel like I'm younger than I am when somebody assumes that they should lecture me as if I were a child.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby Swede » 05 14, 2021 •  [Post 26]

Rammont, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I did not pay much attention to who said what in the thread above. I was not intending to lecture you or anyone else, but can sound rather condescending at times. I don't come across as too condescending when I refer to you and others as "jerk" do I? :D
I was sharing my observations based on decades of my own experience. My intent was to try to encourage people not to be discouraged from trying elk hunting. At the same time I want to remind them that public land OTC elk hunting is not easy or ever going to be. I see posts and threads telling hunters that they have a high likelihood of getting elk after they buy something or learn to call well, etc. I often try to inform them that is not right either.
We have places here in Oregon where the elk numbers are down, and places where the herds have a poor boll/cow ratio. Fish and game know about it. I tend to think they micromanage too much, but they are trying to do what is best. I give them credit, but they are constantly criticized and get very few compliments.
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Re: Colorado elk herd numbers

Postby saddlesore » 05 14, 2021 •  [Post 27]

Here is an interesting chart of Elk Applications, Elk hunt quotes.If elk numbers are going up,why have license quotas gone down?
For some reason,it would not copy all of the chart for 2020,but the license quota was right at125,000

Screen-Shot-2021-04-29-at-10.54.12-AM-768x467.png
Screen-Shot-2021-04-29-at-10.54.12-AM-768x467.png (103.09 KiB) Viewed 5222 times
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