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Lions kill rate

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Lions kill rate

Postby wawhitey » 02 12, 2021 •  [Post 1]

Interesting article. This lion killed 5 deer and 17 elk in 2 months. When they say a lion takes a deer per week, thats how much they need to eat, not how much thry kill. This cat had 50% of its kills stolen by black bears. So in addition to killing fawns, black bears cause lions to kill more. Large bear populations do have a big impact on ungulate numbers. https://www.themeateater.com/video/wild ... ional-park
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Re: Lions kill rate

Postby 7mmfan » 02 12, 2021 •  [Post 2]

That is interesting how many more elk they kill. I always assumed even a mature cougar may struggle with a mature elk.

The point of them having their kills being stolen by other predators is definitely underplayed, and not recognized by most people. Add wolves to the mix and I bet that number goes significantly higher.
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Re: Lions kill rate

Postby Lefty » 02 14, 2021 •  [Post 3]

I was after one big tom that killed a yearling and adult cow moose. Deep snow

Coyotes ravens, eagles shared the kill, almost 6 weeks to clean it all up.

Lots of animals kill for fun and not food. My brother claims otters are hurting the turtle population in Minnesota. Wolves are wiping out the beaver in wolf country And huge numbers of sheep just for fun.
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Re: Lions kill rate

Postby Lefty » 03 03, 2021 •  [Post 4]

We have plenty of lions, now but I fully understand where the roundsman who just run would be upset.
I live on the flats and we had a cat in the neighborhood for a few nights this summer, reduced the house cat population and a dog.

I had two different girl students show me on their phone cats in the window well of their bedrooms.
The last two cats I saw were running across the freeway By Idaho State University. Pocatello could use a few less, And most years this unit the cats limit is filled before Christmas.
I also heard in the works Montana and Idaho might be going full tilt on the wolf thing including planes and spotlights. How fun could that be. I cant afford that hunt,,, but that is what we need.
Had some buddies that use to use planes on coyotes,.. They use planes on hogs in Texas,

For those of you that dont know Im right out of Pocatello We have the deer population tat gets pushed into the city, for years it was stated because of the snow,.. Well in part that was true, But the cat population was always pushing them down. I use to hunt the first field just on the edge of town, Across from Century highschool. Bifore the game fence was put up he lost a lot of deer on that section,.. and cats caused part of that problem.
Where I hunt elk. 15 years ago there were beaver on every mountian flow. Wolves moved in and only the widest flows have beaver, wolves wiped out the high country beaver. But biologist were only seeing the damage to big game.
The unit Had a 25 bull elk, 10 cow elk , that is now 5 bull moose, not cats but wolves

Well some good news too

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Mountain lion study
Idaho’s mountain lions play a bigger role in the overall mortality of elk than previously thought. Wolves have often been linked to poor elk calf survival rates; however, that blame may be misplaced. A new study, which was published in the Journal of Wildlife Management and analyzed 15 years of wolf and elk population data, The Spokesman-Review reports.
“Things are usually more complicated than one thing,” said Jon Horne, lead author of the paper and senior wildlife research biologist at the Idaho Department of Fish and Game. “But it’s sometimes really hard to show that.”
The study also identified harsh winters and lack of food as additional factors for elk calf survival—not just depredation. Yet, the finding that mountain lions killed slightly more elk than wolves was the interesting discovery. According to The Spokesman-Review, wolves were linked to “32% of identified mortalities for female elk” while mountain lions “accounted for 35%.” The difference was even greater when looking at elk calf survival: 28% of elk calf deaths were linked to wolves while mountain lions accounted for 45%.
“The one variable that mattered the most for calf survival was how big it was,” said Horne, who acknowledged that the bigger the wolf pack, the larger impact on elk survival and added that was “by an amount that was not insignificant.” However, because mountain lions are typically solitary hunters, researchers couldn’t look at that same variable as they could with wolves.
Deep snow also had a great impact on elk mortality because, according to Horne, “snow makes for harder, longer winters” and “because wolves have an advantage in deep snow.”
Horne believes the study’s findings could also apply in Washington, Montana and Canada.
This study is the second one to be published by Horne that looks at wolf impact on wildlife in Idaho. In the previous study, which was also published by the Journal of Wildlife Management, Horne discovered that the average wolf pack size stayed about the same between 2005 and 2015, despite Idaho’s legal hunting season.

Local houndsmen say Fish and Game has declared war on mountain lions with plan to eliminate quotas statewide
By Shelbie Harris sharris@journalnet.com Feb 27, 2021 6
A group of Southeast Idaho houndsmen are upset with a proposal from the Idaho Department of Fish and Game to remove all statewide mountain lion harvest quotas, saying the plan amounts to the agency declaring war on the species.
The Idaho Fish and Game Commission is set to approve proposals for big game animals, including mountain lions, during a special meeting in Boise on March 18. If the proposal is approved as is, it would remove all male and female mountain lion harvest quotas from the 31 of approximately 100 hunting units in the state that have such restrictions and would allow hunters to kill as many of the big cats as they want.
Idaho Fish and Game says removing the quotas will “provide consistency in harvest management” throughout all hunting units in the state.
However, Jesse Vanleuven, president of the Eastern Idaho Houndsmen Association, says the units that have historically implemented mountain lion quotas have done so to reduce the potential for overharvest, especially during winters with heavy snowfall and in areas with easy access.
Vanleuven described houndsmen as people that utilize hound dogs — including Bluetick, Redbone and Treeing Walker coonhounds — to help chase the animals they’re hunting, in this case mountain lions. He added that most houndsmen choose not to harvest, or kill, the mountain lions they hunt because they are more interested in the sport for the relationship between the hounds and the thrill of the chase.
Youth Skills Day - Houndsmen (F&G) proposals.
A group of Eastern Idaho Houndsmen Association members using hounds on a hunt in 2019. The association has recently taken issue with the Idaho Department of Fish and Game’s proposal to eliminate all mountain lion quotas statewide.
In addition to statewide consistency, Fish and Game says the mountain lion quota removal proposal is intended to “reduce predation in areas with underperforming deer or elk populations” such as Southeast Idaho.
“Our region is known for the quality of deer hunting and our herd in recent years has declined in relation to hard winters,” said Dan Garren, supervisor of the Idaho Fish and Game Southeast Regional Office. “We’ve come out of those winters and the deer herd has not really responded the way we thought it would and so we’re trying to find ways to improve the herd in the Southeast Region.”
Garren says Idaho Fish and Game is implementing two methods to help improve local struggling deer herds. The first involves “cutting all discretionary mortality that we can control on deer,” Garren said, referring to the proposal to eliminate all youth and archery doe hunting opportunities in the Southeast Region.
“That takes care of the human element that could be impacting the local herd,” Garren said. “The other part is to try and reduce mortality associated with lions and to do that we need to reduce the lion abundance and this proposed regulation is consistent with that goal.”
For at least the last two years, the Southeast Region has implemented a quota system for both male and female mountain lions. Depending on the particular Southeast Region unit, the local mountain lion harvest quotas range from as few as three male lions to as many as eight and as few as five female lions to as many as nine.
The take season for mountain lions runs from Aug. 30 to March 31 in Idaho and hunters are prohibited from using the assistance of hounds between Oct. 1 and Nov. 30.
Vanleuven says his association is absolutely opposed to the quota removals as Idaho would become the only one of 13 western states that allow mountain lion hunting to not have some type of a harvest limit.
“When it comes to sustaining an animal population, quota systems have been proven to work throughout the West,” said Vanleuven, who lives in Menan, a town north of Idaho Falls. “Here in Idaho we have regions that don’t have quotas but it’s because of the limitations to access, winter closures or proximity to urban areas and private property that tend to hold more cats. But for East and Southeast Idaho, access is relatively easy and my biggest fear is that the removal of the quota system statewide will result in a significant local overharvest.”
Additionally, Vanleuven says the rationale from Fish and Game that mountain lion quota removals will provide statewide consistency is nonsensical in that houndsmen and others who hunt mountain lions know how to determine mountain lion gender and are familiar with the variances between units regarding quota limits.
Vanleuven also noted the quota removal comes somewhat as a slap to the face considering Eastern Idaho Houndsmen Association members have for the last two years worked hand-in-hand with Fish and Game to try and develop a system for estimating the local mountain lion population.
Fish and Game Southeast Region Wildlife Manager Zach Lockyer explained the partnership involved a two-step process.
“Over the last two years, we have been working with houndsmen to deploy GPS collars on mountain lions,” Lockyer said. “This was step two in a project to come up with a technique to estimate lion abundance, with the first two years involving the use of remote trail cameras and DNA samples. Then the last two years we complemented that with GPS collars and the houndsmen worked very hard and were instrumental in making that happen.”
The fact Fish and Game would propose the elimination of mountain lion harvest quotas without consulting with the Eastern Idaho Houndsmen Association has left the organization feeling betrayed.
Vanleuven said, “We absolutely feel slighted. It was about two weeks after we collared the last cat that the proposal came out to remove the quotas and it was shocking to me that (Fish and Game) would make this determination without reviewing the results of the study.”
data on the mountain lions about five or six months into the devices’ 22-month life expectancy.
Lockyer said he was hopeful the removal of mountain lion quotas wouldn’t have a negative impact on what he described as an overwhelmingly helpful and positive relationship between Fish and Game and local houndsmen.
“Local houndsmen have been great to work with and I think we have a solid relationship,” Lockyer said. “There is also a large number of deer and elk hunters in this state that have been disappointed in recent years. While there are some houndsmen who dislike this proposal, I hope we can maintain a positive relationship and continue working with them.”
The big game regulations the Fish and Game Commission will consider next month are revisited every year. All regulations included in any proposals approved next month will be in effect for the 2021-22 hunting season.
While the public comment period regarding the plans has already expired, the Fish and Game Commission will accept additional comments during its March 17 public hearing in Boise prior to the March 18 special meeting.
Though the proposed mountain lion quota removals will not be necessarily permanent if approved by the commission, Eastern Idaho Houndsmen Association member Nick Muckerman of Inkom says it’s rare Fish and Game will re-implement a quota once it’s been removed, especially for predators such as mountain lions. Further, Muckerman believes a full year of open season on mountain lions could annihilate the local lion population.
“To me, even one year is too long,” Muckerman said. ”If I got together with 10 or 15 houndsmen and we went to a game management unit with good access and good snow and we all separated out, within just a couple days we could kill 80 to 90 percent of the cats up there. The tables can turn so quickly because the tracks in the snow make them very vulnerable. It’s basically declaring all out war on the species and it just makes no sense to me that Fish and Game wouldn’t propose raising the quotas before outright eliminating them.”
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