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Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

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Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Jhg » 10 09, 2018 •  [Post 1]

I have in the last two season been forced to limit my hunting to one or two areas. Not good, but thats the way it was. I began to notice later in the archery season how a resident bull had gone ghost- I believe he went totally nocturnal. I would find his tracks often, many times intersecting my own travel paths. But given the amount of time I spent in the area, there was not much chance he was on the move in shooting light. The behavior is almost whitetail like. I find this of interest. I believe some bulls for whatever reason- temperment, comfort or some unknown, choose to hold in a general area. Perhaps they believe cows will return, (and they will), perhaps he feels safest in "his" drainage. Maybe he does not have the mojo to take on the adversaries that certainly exist just over the next ridge. This bull did not like any sort of confrontation, and ran off from any bugle ( earlier in the season) I don't think this is a common trait, but do think it is more common than we are given to believe. Thoughts?
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Swede » 10 09, 2018 •  [Post 2]

I have written about this very thing several times, including in the tree stand book. It is real alright. I refer to them as "resident bulls". I like resident bulls because I search out their travel path(s). I have located a trail that they use, and set up in my tree when it gets to water. It has been my observation that they come and go from their bedding area to the water. They move around in their area to feed too.
You can see the trail they are using. I have found frequent rub trees along the path of travel. They don't make all of the rubs in a day or even two. They make one rub then move on, but since they travel their often, a lot of rub trees accumulate over time.
If what I am describing reflects what you have, you should be able to kill him quite easily. They are very vulnerable.
Cows will also hang out by themselves in a basin or other small area. They don't seem to pattern themselves like I have observed the bulls do, but they are easy to get also. I had one that I really did not want until quite late in the season. This large old cow had been in the area all season, and I had observed her on numerous occasions. I think it was the last Thursday of the season when I went back and shot her. She never herded up, and never reacted to any of the calls I had tried on her during the season. I would watch her just to observe what she would do. The trouble was she acted totally deaf, but would go a short distance if she scented, or saw me.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Lefty » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 3]

Are those bulls
"smart"
"too old to compete" "
"willing to wait on an occasional cow"
"just not interested?"

I think it depends on the bull .
this year we saw during the peak and ending of the rut the big bulls stayed in the thick of things , they may bugle and even without cows stayed put

seemed like the biggest bulls stayed in the cover and waited,...maybe why they were big bulls
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Jhg » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 4]

Thanks Swede. I recognize exactly what you are describing- the rubs, etc. The only difference in regards to what I am seeing is the bull seems to be staying in the area, but has gone underground. Early in the season I had him broadside and unaware but brush blocked the vitals. Again I had him just below me but busted by the cows. Then again he came behind me on a wallow though he didn't know I was there. Winded me but it was a case of his dumb luck. After the 3rd encounter was when he went underground and who can say what encounters he had had with other hunters. I think he just decided to get real careful. Anyway, this is what I love about hunting elk. There is so much nuanced behavior that is very cool to discover and understand. I think if elk hunting was limited to what is repeated over and over in many places as the end to it, I would have soured on it a long time ago.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Jhg » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 5]

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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby ElkNut1 » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 6]

It's called pressured elk/bull! It has little to do with going totally nocturnal because he's mature, he knows you & others have been there, he's been disciplined/educated to hunters now! It's like I've mentioned many times, you have one very good chance at calling & killing a good mature bull, your 2nd, 3rd etc. chances go straight downhill after that! He's no dummy he's wise to you now!

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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 7]

Another phenomenon that I personally believe to be true (from observation/study) which may have bearing on what you've noticed is that many of the most mature bulls are "not in the picture" until the rut really gets into full swing (that magical thirdish week of SEP when the majority of the cows are coming into estrus). During the initial herd up period (end AUG thru second week of SEP), the other amorous bulls (younger six points, even five points) are the ones who are mostly doing the herd establishment. Take for example the bull in my avatar. I caught him on trail cam quite a few times throughout the first two weeks of SEPT as a solo appearance! Nope, he was not with any cows at all but would lurk around checking where the small herds had been (scent checking only), more than likely determining when it was the best time, "his time" to get in the mix. You see, bulls, particularly those that will end up doing most of the breeding, must conserve their energy to be able to do what they do throughout the rut. The more mature the bull is, the more experience he has with what it takes to perform his called upon duties throughout the heart of the rut. As the third week of SEPT rolled around, suddenly this bull had "displaced" a former smaller herd bull and he was now in the mix! Just a thought to consider with the big ol' mature bulls ;)
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Jhg » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 8]

ElkNut1 wrote:... he's wise to you now! ElkNut/Paul


Thats what I was thinking. It is very cool how little it takes for them to wise up.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Swede » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 9]

Lefty, I am not sure about the answer to your question. RJ may be writing about this same type of bull, but I am not sure.
The bull I shot was a loner. He was in no bachelor group and with no cows. He would bugle on occasion. I located him on September 1 and killed him on September 6, 1993. During the week I had to work every day.
He would not answer my location bugles the few times I called. Personally I am inclined to think the bull was just a loner. Would the scent of a hot cow got him moving? I don't know. The bull was in a location where no one else was elk hunting. It did not look like elk habitat. My son said to some people that asked what I was doing there, "he has seen a stupid forked horn deer, and is wasting time trying to get it."
When I was working on the Forest, I saw where one of these bulls was hanging out several times. I only set up a stand for the one, as the others were too far away to drive for, and back in the 1990s it was still too easy to get an elk.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Swede » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 10]

Jhg: Are all of the rubs lined up like markers in the Hansel and Gretel story? If they are follow them down hill to see where the end. Set up a tree stand at the end of the markers. You will need to be well hidden for this old boy. Be careful in your tree selection.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Lefty » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 11]

Swede
More of a statement than a question
The longer answer was in Paul’s and RJ’s post
We train those animals ( bulls). Through experience.
The will to survive is strong in animals too.

It isn’t just elk or big game
I trained a bear once . I know that little guy knew the sound of my atv
He would move off the trail cam

As soon as I left a bait site he was. Back on the bait to see what I brought him


I hunt city geese at one location
Easy the first hunt. Kill some the next hunt. Then for weeks the geese fly high per the field

We’re those geese all trained the same
No but their response might be the same stay off the field any eat et at the golf course
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Swede » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 12]

I am skeptical that these elk as Jhg and I described are conditioned or trained to behave the way they do. The reason I say that is because I have found all of these critters and their haunts well before the archery season opens. I first heard the bull I killed the evening before archery season opened. I don't know why I did not go in Saturday morning on the opening of the season, but I waited until Sunday afternoon to look him up. It was then that I saw his distinct trail with all of the rubs along it. I set up a stand there the next Friday evening, and killed him the next day.
I would not have gone into that area, except I heard him bugle from there. I was in my sleeping bag as I listened. It did not look like a place you would expect to find elk. No one was ever in there hunting during the season. There was a dirt road into that spot, and no human track were on it but my son's and mine. When I killed that bull, that was the end of all elk activity that season. I thought more would come around, and had my son wait there, but nothing ever showed.
The trail to the water hole, situated between two busy roads, was started well before the season started, and he used it until the end. The one road was double lane paved. How was he trained to hang out there? Why not go two miles west and disappear in a large, steep roadless area? That old cow that stayed in one small area; how was she trained for that? Why did these elk not herd up? When elk normally range over miles, why were these different. Like I said, I am not satisfied that they were trained or conditioned for that.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Swede » 10 10, 2018 •  [Post 13]

As a side note, I have seen trails beat to dust by repeat use of one bull and I have observed where there is no distinct trail, but rather rub trees along a broader general path leading to a water hole. The consistent thing is that the path goes from a bedding area to a nearby watering place. I have not seen enough of these to be dogmatic that is the way, and only way it occurs. That has just been my observation.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby Jhg » 05 11, 2022 •  [Post 14]

Bump.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby saddlesore » 05 12, 2022 •  [Post 15]

I agree with Paul. Bulls go nocturnal because of hunting pressure or just people in the area.Elk don't follow any rules except one.That is survival. As long a they feel safe,they will not move far. I don't pay attention to rubs or wallows. They are like tracks, they tell you a bull was there. During rut, bulls go where the cows are, not cows going to where bulls are. Bulls don't go back to a particular tree to rub.

I use to hunt both ML and rifle season in two different units.I can't do that anymore,but I will still try ML season this coming year. I hunt a with a resident herd, 10-12 cows and a bull will move thru every once in awhile. Two us hunt this area. We can usually take on elk out of it.Then they move out.If we screw up or someone else moves thru, we get zero.
One articular year when it was very dry, someone walked around the only water source around. It was just a little seep, good enough for1-2 elk at at time , but elk used it . We could see boot tracks using our binoculars . We setup on two different trails they used to get to it and sat there 5-6 days and not one elk showed up.They had drifted a mile and half west to a small pond private land.

I have said many times, a hunter has to figure out what elk do when hunted not what they do the other 11 months of the year,. Which is why scouting only lets you get to know the country you hunt. You might see elk, but you or someone will push them out or make them go nocturnal before hunting season,if you mess around in it too much.
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Re: Ghost elk- when bulls go stealth

Postby >>>---WW----> » 05 12, 2022 •  [Post 16]

Jhg: I have read many of your post and feel safe in saying you are a very good elk hunter.

The bull you mentioned just seemed to have luck on his side during the first two encounters you had with him. Sounds like he didn't have a clue you were even there. But the third time, he got a good whiff of you and the jig was up!!!!. You can't blame him for being leery after that.

I'm somewhat like you. I have one special area I like to hunt on a daily basis. I go in early of a morning but as soon as the thermals start to change, I'm out of there. Sometimes my hunts end up being very short because of the wind and thermal patterns. But I have never spooked the elk out of there. And I have been able to hunt the same area day after day.

My theory is, "They can here you and they might even see you and you might still get away with it. But let them smell you and it is game over"!

I don't think your particular bull went nocturnal or even stealthy. He just got smarter and probably followed the herd around to the other side of the mountain for a day or two.

If that is one of the few places you have to hunt, be patient. The herd seemed to like that place for some reason and they will be back in a few days.
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