Let's All Bark

[Swede]

After shooting an elk I have given our a cow call many times. It slows or stops a standing elk. Sometimes. I have never tried a bark after shooting. What I am wondering is, how many of you have given out a bark After shooting? How well did it work? Did you shoot with a gun or bow? Can you remember how close the elk was?
If we can't get a definitive answer on how well it works, I am going to try it this year. Note the confidence I have. Maybe I can do it in Oregon and Idaho. More optimism and more confidence.
I hope everyone here will get a chance to try this. I think it will work, and wonder why I have not tried it before.

[>>>---WW---->]

If you zip one right through him, a nervous bark will stop him. If the arrow is causing him pain, it could be a toss up. But your chances with a bark are always better than a mew or bugle.

I have always said, "A nervous bark is the only sound that works 100% of the time and will stop an elk on a dime". I'm not sure what a popping grunt will do!

[Lefty]

Hunting alone, a diaphragm in my mouth, Im mostly limited to a mew.

Last fall the our last night out I tired all sorts of sound. At 90 yards that cow didnt care what sounds I made. Was she deaf, or was all well thinking she was with he show off boyfriend and other girlfriends?

[Heartwood]

Like others here, we have had much success using the "popping grunt" "nervous grunt" to stop elk for the shot and even after the shot for a follow up. I personally have used just my voice impression of the pop to stop bulls up to 3 times in succession. Last season I was helping a partner on a late elk hunt and stopped the entire herd with a pop after he shot. He shot again and a pop stopped them all again! The popping grunt is one of the most useful sounds that we use. Also, the sound quality does not have to be good for it to work. Through a tube my pop sounds real but with just voice it sounds terrible, still works! Swede, this has worked for us both with a gun and bow and from 10 yards up to 300 + yards after rifle shots. This call is a slam dunk almost 100% of the time. I have used it many many times and only once did it not work. A bull chasing a cow ran by at 10 yards and the pop in his ear did not stop him. I'm not sure why but i wasn't going to shoot him on the run. This sound is a killer and the last sound some bulls ever hear. I shot a rag horn bull after the pop at 10 yards. Nocked another arrow and stopped him at 30 yards for a second shot. Both shots were good and the bull went down. This sound is one of the most important to use.

[Beendare]

I know there are some 'Elk experts' that preach the 'Bark" ...put me down as , Not a fan.

There is no doubt a bark gets their attention and fast. But what is a bark? Its a danger call....you are essentially saying 'Look out"....putting them on their guard. I've seen elk that after barking they stop [quickly] but then instead of hanging around they high tail it out of there putting distance between them and [myself] whatever caused the other elk to bark. Makes sense, its their natural reaction, to avoid danger.

I've barked to stop elk for a shot while walking through the timber....both times it was a bad idea and I would have been better served with a different call. They didn't stop in the exact window I needed for a shot....but with the bark, the jig was up...they didn't give me a second chance....they skedaddled. At least with a cow call they still remain curious.

The only time I like the bark is in a scenario like this; You are sneaking on a herd bull, one of the elk catches you moving and barks at you...then I immediately bark back. The hope is that they didn't get a good look at you and they aren't sure you are a threat. IMO, it works better when there is some distance between you and the herd....a safety buffer, and they probably just saw a strange movement. I typically followup the bark with a couple of very soft cow calls...to hopefully further confuse them....plus I hold perfectly still for a bit so they don't make me.

Elk can see you a long ways through the timber....I don't think guys use their binos while sneaking near enough--its the equalizer. Example; I've been calling for guys and scanning with my binos and spotted a tiny sliver of elk 100yds through the timber looking our way trying to see who was calling. With your naked eye, you cannot see those animals and if you are moving or fidgiting they pick you off- guaranteed. I've seen it too many times calling for buddies that were moving. In this case, you never knew you were 100 yds from elk that wanted to come in but spooked them.

in the case of an elk I just shot, I think bugling is best. They have stopped 100% of the time when I do that. Now if they made the shooter they don't stop long...but if they haven't they usually tip over right there while still listening. A bugle gets an immediate reaction just like a bark...but it doesn't convey "danger...get out of here". Its pretty cool to follow the blood trail and see a big pool where the bull stopped to listen...then usually find them closeby.

[Heartwood]

Maybe what Swede meant was a POPPING GRUNT or NERVOUS GRUNT which sounds like a bark but has a completely different meaning. This is the one we use to stop elk and it works great. Elk even use the POPPING GRUNT toward each other when they aren't sure about a sound they heard or something that they have seen. I have especially seen or heard elk popping amoung themselves at night when feeding and spreading out they are just confirming that there is not something dangerous around. When an elk pops it is asking for the other elk to show itself or respond with a confirming call. When an elk BARKS it is on its way out of town and is indeed warning other herd members of danger. When an elk POPS it is staying around to see what just made that unidentified sound or suspicious movement. Big difference in meaning but same basic sound.

[Swede]

Big difference in meaning but same basic sound.

I call it all a bark. I have heard these sounds and they sound exactly the same. I think the difference is based on what the elk perceives in addition to the bark. i.e. If one elk sees or scents you and bark it busts out of there, and all the elk around run. If you have one that barks at you, it is nervous, but uncertain. In a little while it will bark again and if it stays nervous it will take off. If the one that barks does not run, others look around, but go back to feeding.
Elk have slightly different voices and that accounts for the different barks. Besides if I can't hear any difference how would I make some different sound for different situations? How would the elk know the difference based on the sound alone?

[Heartwood]

Absolutely Swede, I can't tell the difference by just the sound but by the context that the sound is made in. When an elk barks, it is headed out to parts unknown. Before having knowledge of Elknut's system I would have never tried to use a "bark" sound for anything at all. After seeing mixed results using a cow call to stop bulls I tried what Elknut suggests and was convinced right away. It flat out gets their attention and stops them on a dime. Usually it will work more than once in a given encounter also. The elk truly believe and trust this sound when they hear it. The nervous grunt works well both before and after the shot. Before to stop for the shot and after to stop again for a follow up if possible. I was on the edge of a herd once watching two rag horn bulls spar but couldn't move because a spike had come to my cow calls and was to close to the herd to just shoo him away. One cow kept popping because she could not identify or see the newcomer cow (me). She would pop and I would cow call to calm her and after 3 or 4 times she finally had enough and blew the herd up. Its hard to move when pinned down by a pesky spike bull, I wanted to just sneak 30 yard closer for a crack at the sparing bulls.

[WapitiTalk1]

It works . Barks are different than a nervous or popping grunt.

[Swede]

I am reminded of the button on my car that I push to get it started. It is the same one I push to stop it. If you have a bark you can use to stop a bull, please try it this next season. I suspect it is the exact same bark you would use to start the elk running. The difference is based on what else is happening, like do they see or smell you?

[>>>---WW---->]

This is getting hilarious! The nervous bark and the so called popping grunt are the exact same sound. If you stop and think about it, elk have been doing nervous barks for thousands of years. But they have only been doing popping grunts since Elknut invented the term just a few short years ago and many guys swallowed the Kool-Aid!

[Swede]

I don't think I am claiming anything new about barks. Writing about the Nervous/Popping Grunt Elknut says in his Playbook, "sounds like a bark". And guess what, it sounds exactly like a bark. It is a bark. He also writes that Barks "sound like single note grunts". Either way you look at it is the same sound.
I guess we can distinguish a nervous bark from other barks by giving it a different name. A rose by any other name is still a rose. I just have not tried to separate the same sound because of the situation. Calling the sound a "nervous bark" seems good in that it clarifies the elk's level of concern. So sports fans, let's all bark (nervous) right after we shoot our elk this year unless the elk really has recognized what you are. Just don't blame Swede if it does not work as planned.

[ElkNut1]

Nervous Grunts, Popping Grunts & Nervous Barks are all the same & have similar outcomes. It's no different than saying a Cow is near Breeding, A Cow is in Estrus or a Cow is in Heat, all are saying the same thing, it's all in the phrasing but the meanings do not change! A Warning Bark/Barks is different than The Nervous Grunt family! Elk who use the Nervous Grunt can stick around, a Warning Bark & they vacate the area immediately.

ElkNut1

[Swede]

With all due respect, Elknut, if you are now saying there is a difference in the sounds, you should read your own book as you are contradicting yourself. Situations change, but the sounds are the same. I too have heard them many times. Whereas bulls bugle mostly near the rut, they will bark anytime of year. Working in the forest, paying attention to what I was doing I have heard them go off numerous times. That was more common than in a hunting situation where I am focused on anything that could be elk. You can tell the difference in the barks if you suddenly see elk butts and hear the sound of hooves.

[WapitiTalk1]

I started another thread to discuss this subject a bit further, and, I remind all our members that I will not and do not tolerate any personal discredits/attacks on our sponsors, or, members of this forum. If you agree/disagree with something on a thread or want to offer an opinion from experience, super cool, BUT, make no mistake....... if I see and perceive a personal attack on someone..... I will act accordingly. This forum has existed for many years without much of the crap that exists on others. If you need clarification or have a question on something somebody posts up (or offers as guidance in their sponsor website), send them a PM if you feel it may be a bit cheeky on your part but do not just post it on WapitiTalk if again, you feel it may be perceived as discrediting/attacking one of our sponsors or member.. Got it? Good. Carry on. RJ

[Swede]

Thanks for the reminder RJ.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, I have total respect for Elknut and his hunting ability and accomplishments. As I have said before, he has done more than anyone I know of to help educate persons that want to become better elk hunters. I do not question his character or motives. That said, I will disagree with him as quick as I would the greenest neophyte if I think he is wrong. I expect the same.

[ishy]

Never tried it with elk, but it works great on coyotes even after gun shots. Recently saw a guy call in a pack of at least ten wolves across a frozen lake. He popped a lead wolf and then nothing, he just watched as the other wolves got out of dodge...I was cringing at the lost opportunity. Maybe he only had one tag.

[ElkNut1]

Swede, thanks for your thoughts & kudosd! (grin) Not exactly sure where the contradiction is? Can you help me out here!

The only confusion I see may be the word Bark instead of Grunt, is that it bud? If so the key word in front of them is 'Nervous" not Warning? At any rate help me out here! (grin) Thanks!

ElkNut1

[Beendare]

This conversation really is worthless without examples.

There are so many youtube vids out there with elk screaming their gonads off...you guys have to be able to post a link. I've heard what I call questioning barks [to further muck up the terminology <grin>] and I've heard/had elk bark a warning many times. There is a difference in tone to all elk calls...no doubt the controversy.

If I was new to elk hunting I would be sitting at my computer thinking, "WTF are these guys talking about?"

Its no wonder there is so much confusion on this. Post a link or it didn't happen <grin>

Maybe a patented RJ "What now ?" thread... instead of shoot/don't shoot...

[Swede]

Not exactly sure where the contradiction is?

I was basically arguing against your comment that barks sound different than nervous grunts. I can't hear a difference even though I recognize in the forest, sounds can be different just because of the vegetation, terrain, and different elk voices. I commented about that on the similar current thread. You are not alone in your belief. Several people on this site believe there is a sound difference between the nervous alarm and the "let's get out of here bark".
It may sound callous, but I really don't care what someone believes. If they think some subtlety makes a difference to the elk, well by all means go for it. What I am trying to do on now is to get people to try a bark/grunt after shooting their elk this year. I want them to stop their elk AFTER the shot. I am saying they don't need to worry about being so precise. Do it with your voice. After the season I want to start a thread and see what we have learned.
If I can get ten people to bark after shooting their elk and X# stop, that tells us something and we will all learn. If no one or only one person barks, then everything stays in the realm of theory. Hey nothing messes up a good argument more than someone having real knowledge.

[ElkNut1]

Swede, you're getting a wrong impression! When I said that the Grunts versus Barks sound different I was referring to repetition of one over the other, not their tones! Nervous/Popping Grunts are done in a single note fashion from anywhere from 10 seconds between them to a minute & the elk stay there, it's inquisitive! A Warning Bark is generally done in repetition as they vacate the area. Sorry for the confusion there! In the PlayBook you mentioned I explain it in detail along with 5-6 situations it was used to kill bulls. It's on pages 24-27. Check it out again & you'll have a better grasp of its meaning & use.

WW, I use the word Grunt over Bark to avoid confusion as this! See how well it worked! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Swede]

Paul, thanks for the explanation. I thought I understood what you meant, but I did not comprehend what you said. ... or something like that. Anyway thanks for the clarification. Dang! It is hard to argue with someone you find yourself agreeing with.

Paul is right about the sequence of nervous grunts. In that way they are different. Even I can hear that.