Now that's a long shot or is it?

[WapitiTalk1]

I like to spark this thread up once every year or so.

The question I ask is simply this.... After your bow is dialed in and you're shooting well, very well, hunting season well, what is your comfortable range for shooting an initial arrow at:

A. A stationary elk that has no idea you're even in his state. He's feeding or drinking, completely motionless, and the wind/thermals are minimal (and every so slightly blowing in your favor), what do you feel your maximum effective and deadly range is for scenario A?

B. A very nervous elk who has came in to your calls, or, perhaps is walking by your ambush point on a trail. He's alert and is suspicious of something that is not quite right. The wind/thermals are swirling a bit and the beast may bust at any time. What do you feel your maximum effective and deadly range is for scenario B?

There is no significant brush, branches, grass, rain, hail, locust swarms, etc., in the path of your arrow for both scenarios and the terrain is relatively level out to say, 100 yards for both situation A and B. And please, no ethical this or that comments. Just want to see what my fellow Wapiti Talk hunters have established as "their" personal limits for loosing an initial arrow. I know some of you don't like to set personal limits and will let the situation dictate but be honest, I think we all have our distance comfort limits... What are yours for scenario A and B?

[Elkhunttoo]

A. With my set up I like to be 50 and in, 50 is max for me.
B. Every situation is different, it still might be 50, but probably around 40.

[ElkNut1]

# 1 - 60 yards.

# - 2 - 40, each situation is different but 30-40 yards, my gut feeling generally controls my decision on exact situation.

ElkNut1

[Old school]

A. 50
B. 30

--Mitch

[Stick]

A. 60
B. 40 this one could vary but yardage would go down not up for me!

[Roosiebull]

I will say 40 for both, like mentioned above, every situation is different, but that is my base line, an alert elk is often no different than one that's unaware. the only one I have ever had move on a shot was one that didn't know I was there, head down feeding...I got lucky and watched him die, but it made me panic when I saw him run off with my arrow quite a bit further back than I aimed.

I prefer top pin though

[stringunner]

50/30

[Heartwood]

40/20

[Lefty]

A lot depends on how I feel at the time; I practice out to 55 yards.

I have to feel right about the shot,.. I pass on a lot of shots because they are not what I want,.. with a rifle, bow or scattergun,..

[N&N Waterfowl]

1. 55-60...depending on wind, type of shot (level ground, uphill, downhill), etc
2. 35-40...again other conditions will have an effect as well

[DBLGBL]

60/70 & 40

The first scenario would have to be absolutely perfect. I have a 100 yard range and spend the last month alternating between a 3d elk target and broad heads at that distance.

As for the second scenario, to me there are many levels of alertness. Is he looking for something he heard or standing on his toes because he saw or smelled something. Each one of these situations will be a different call.

2gbl

[Tigger]

50/40 although I will caveat that with I am getting a new bow this year. I don't anticipate those numbers to go up, but if I am not comfortable with it for some reason, it could go down.

[ishy]

60/40

[Fridaythe13th]

getting drawn in colorado with 5 PP when the zone only need 4 that's a long shot have ........ . Oh you mean with my bow 60 / 40. Lol

[TimeOnTarget]

I practice to 90yds all summer.

That said,

Scenario A would be 60-70yds.

B would be 50 and in I spose. maybe even a little less.

[six]

50 / 40

[cohunter]

I've been a pretty conservative guy when it comes to tripping the release. I've told myself I was comfortable on a relaxed animal out to 40 with shots on an alert animal cut down to 20 or less but in reality, I've never actually pulled the trigger on an alert animal (mostly because I've never felt comfortable with the angle or the size/quality of the animal) I've passed some nice opportunities at nice bulls just within 40 yards because I just didn't feel that comfortable with the shot - so in reality, my limit more like 30 yards. I don't really regret not taking those shots, but I do wish I was a little more confident at that range.

[Charina]

I like to think that I'm a very ethical person. Have zero intent on wounding and loosing an animal. I've had it happen in other hunting situations, and it's not something I take lightly. I tell myself every year, I won't shoot further than I've practiced, and know that 99.5% of my shots are within a 6" circle. However, with my intent to be totally ethical, I also must not lie to myself or anyone else - truth is, how desperate I am plays a big part in determining where my max is. I might stretch out further than my longest practiced range when it's last day, big bull, and waning light. Its fun to play internet hero, but the reality is, most people have some variability, whether or not they will admit it on a forum (or even to themselves!).

Last year, my max I set was 50 yards.

I had one shot last year on a cow. 40 yards. Totally nervous. I bumped her out of bed, we did a staredown through thick brush for 20 mins, with a few barks on her side, and a few cow calls on my side. When I had a clear shot as she tried to move downwind, and I stopped her with a call, she was looking right at me standing out in the open. Super high alert. Not a flinch from her (that I could see) before the arrow got to her location. So, I'm comfortable shooting at a 40 yard alert elk this coming fall. That might change if I have a different experience. (and no, I didn't harvest her - I presumed I had simply choked when the arrow went under her - turns out the clamp holding the rest's pull cord to my down cable had come loose, and my launcher forks were not all the way up when I released)

[olympushunt]

Ya...it is too situational for me to say. I'd like to give a number like 60/40 or 50/30 but in reality I can't. Are those situations both ranged with a range finder? I assume situation A is if the elk has no clue and the situation is stable. I had situation B my last bull and I simply didn't have time to range him. I knew I had seconds before he was gone. I didn't make a great shot at all but he ended up only going maybe 80 yards before falling over. I honestly would like to say if I had that to do over I would refrain. The percentages were just not optimal. I've passed on shots in similar situations....I think it just depends.
I may get ripped for this but the other thing, is I am influenced by size of animal and time of my hunt. First day of a decent hunt and it's a cow....ive passed LOTS of those at gimme shot range. Last day or good bull....my finger is getting itchy. That may sound foolish but it is just me being honest.

[ORelksniper]

A: 50
B: 20

[Swede]

Generally 40/30 but may go over a little in the first scenario if everything is perfect.

[wewarev]

I would say A - 50, B - 30 for myself, although the situation would dictate that. I'm more confident in my shot during the hunt than practice so I can see myself pushing the limits, it just depends.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[TimeOnTarget]

I like to think that I'm a very ethical person. Have zero intent on wounding and loosing an animal. I've had it happen in other hunting situations, and it's not something I take lightly. I tell myself every year, I won't shoot further than I've practiced, and know that 99.5% of my shots are within a 6" circle. However, with my intent to be totally ethical, I also must not lie to myself or anyone else - truth is, how desperate I am plays a big part in determining where my max is. I might stretch out further than my longest practiced range when it's last day, big bull, and waning light. Its fun to play internet hero, but the reality is, most people have some variability, whether or not they will admit it on a forum (or even to themselves!).

Last year, my max I set was 50 yards.

I had one shot last year on a cow. 40 yards. Totally nervous. I bumped her out of bed, we did a staredown through thick brush for 20 mins, with a few barks on her side, and a few cow calls on my side. When I had a clear shot as she tried to move downwind, and I stopped her with a call, she was looking right at me standing out in the open. Super high alert. Not a flinch from her (that I could see) before the arrow got to her location. So, I'm comfortable shooting at a 40 yard alert elk this coming fall. That might change if I have a different experience. (and no, I didn't harvest her - I presumed I had simply choked when the arrow went under her - turns out the clamp holding the rest's pull cord to my down cable had come loose, and my launcher forks were not all the way up when I released)

Excellent post. Echos my thoughts for the most part.

[Swede]

The question I ask is simply this.... After your bow is dialed in and you're shooting well, very well, hunting season well, what is your comfortable range for shooting an initial arrow at:

I have no issue at all with anyone's post here, but the question was what is you comfortable range? I generally feel comfortable at the ranges mentioned and possibly a little farther if the conditions are perfect. Another question might be; is your comfortable shooting range realistic enough to account for the excitement of a live animal at your target limits?

[Roosiebull]

The question I ask is simply this.... After your bow is dialed in and you're shooting well, very well, hunting season well, what is your comfortable range for shooting an initial arrow at:

Another question might be; is your comfortable shooting range realistic enough to account for the excitement of a live animal at your target limits?

I hope so.....but just because I have a broadside bull at 40 yds, doesn't mean I have to shoot...I have passed up a couple really good opportunities because I was rattled when the opportunity was there....and I have shot a couple not exactly where I was aiming. all we can do is try our hardest in the heat of the moment....I try not to push my skill level in the woods, I give myself plenty of wiggle room, and have been happy to have it a couple times. I would think that aspect would go away, but it doesn't....only thing that really rattles me like that...not sure why.

I have had a few situations working that were much higher stress situations(one a few days ago) but there is something about drawing my bow on a critter that rattles me more than a very dangerous situation in life.

very good point though Swede, I know more than a couple people who are great with a bow, but suck at shooting animals with them....it's very different, target in the back yard is WAY easier to kill than an elk.

[Beendare]

My shot distances have decreased over the years. I've killed multiple animals at 80 yds in my younger days...but i had a couple that moved and lost them too. Now i pass on long shots. I dont have a problem with guys taking those long shots... but i think many guys overestimate their chance of success.

Compound
A- maybe 60... more likely 50
B-25. I dont like shooting at aware animals... in fact i judge my success on how unaware they are when i shoot.

Recurve
A- 30ish
B- 20

[N&N Waterfowl]

The one thing I take from all the responses is that even though you have a predetermined max distance for each scenario, is that numerous conditions will effect those numbers. And that the yard ages are based on individual abilities. If only all hunters thought this way, maybe fewer animals would be wounded and not recovered.

[Swede]

Very true N&N. Stringunner stated in his thread in the Tree Stand forum that his normal shooting distance is 20-30 yards. I am hunting the same area and often use the same stands. My arrow is about 425 grains. That is ok for that distance and a little more. I would not feel comfortable shooting 60-80 yards just because of the arrow weight alone. Beendare made a point about heavier arrows hitting harder than light ones. He is correct on that. Still I am good if I limit my range. We need to know our own limits, our equipment limits, and the game we are after.

[Roosiebull]

Very true N&N. Stringunner stated in his thread in the Tree Stand forum that his normal shooting distance is 20-30 yards. I am hunting the same area and often use the same stands. My arrow is about 425 grains. That is ok for that distance and a little more. I would not feel comfortable shooting 60-80 yards just because of the arrow weight alone. Beendare made a point about heavier arrows hitting harder than light ones. He is correct on that. Still I am good if I limit my range. We need to know our own limits, our equipment limits, and the game we are after.

.....and even the most calm elk can cover a lot of distance in 60-80yds of arrow flight.

[Da White Shoe]

I do real well if I know the range.
I love 40yds and closer for bowhunting elk... yeah, don't we all!
I love 18yds even more. And 10yds is better yet!
But, with the correct amount of shooting practice, a feeding bull standing broadside on level ground, no limbs or wind to deal with and the exact range... I would be confident with a 70yd shot. I still might not take it. A lot depends on the situation. No chance to get a closer shot? Am I 100% or did I just hump it up a mountain?
A jittery elk? I think probably 30-40yds, depending on exactly how jittery he is.

[cohunter14]

.....and even the most calm elk can cover a lot of distance in 60-80yds of arrow flight.

Not really if you think about it. Take an arrow that leaves the bow at 280fps compared to the speed of sound, which is roughly 1,125fps. At 20 yards, the arrow takes .21 seconds to get there and the sound takes .05 seconds, so an animal has .16 seconds to react. At 40 yards, they have .32 seconds to react, 60 yards gives them .48, and 80 yards gives them .65 seconds. Granted, the arrow does slow down a few fps in flight, but we are talking fractions of a second difference in these distances. An animal has .16 seconds more to react at 60 yards than at 40 yards.

[cohunter]

cohunter14, I agree - at 20 yards... Average human reaction time is supposedly about .20 seconds (although I'm a bit slower). Assuming (in our favor) that an elk has the same reaction time at 20 yards there's no consequence. I would argue an elk looking at you is going to see the rapid motion of the bow firing before he hears it, but still, very little consequence at 20 yards. But using your numbers at 40 yards, a .2 second reaction time still gives .12 seconds to move - doesn't seem significant, but a person at WALKING speed (3mph) would travel .53 feet - about 6 inches. I assume an elk flinching would go farther. At 60 yards, that elk can move 1.2 feet. At 80 yards, an elk could move almost 2 feet! This is obviously over-simplifying the reaction, but I'd never be comfortable at 80 yards - if a calm elk took an unexpected step or two forward as I was squeezing the trigger (adding in my reaction time to the sight of him moving) he could move up to .2 seconds for my reaction time + .84 seconds for arrow flight. For an elk moving at 3mph, that's over 4 feet! Obviously a worst-case scenario, but not impossible. One second is a LONG time!

[cohunter14]

One second is a LONG time!

It is and I completely agree with you. I'm talking about an elk that doesn't know you are there and just throwing out the numbers. If they already have an eye on you, then the speed of sound doesn't matter.

But what are the chances of them even hearing the shot out at 60 or 80 yards? With how quiet bows are these days, it makes you wonder. And yes, it's one thing if they are already moving but let's say they are unaware of your presence and you take a shot at 60 yards. IF they hear it, which will be a quiet noise anyway in comparison to breaking a twig, rustling leaves, etc, the chances of them turning to look to see what the noise was versus taking off running are very high in my opinion.

[Beendare]

Well we learn from our eff ups right? ....and everyone likes to hear them....I've got and seen plenty!

I missed a bull clean at 40 yds. He was running in to my buddy holding a montana decoy and I was out in front to the side of this bull. I stopped him with a chirp and he hit the brakes string right at me. I shot and the bull moved as fast as I've ever seen an elk move....[they don't usually move that quick....but they can!] The arrow hit the ground right where he was a split second before.

I've posted the pic many times of a bull we called from about 1/2 mile away on a far point [to 3 montana decoys]. I was calling for 4 buddies and the bull got to 15 yds of the dekes without anyone in position for a shot [THAT was frustrating!] the bull spooked back across a avalanche chute and I stopped him at 55 yds for 2 buddies at full draw. When they shot the bull moved and they both caught him in the back ham......"Oh no" I thought.....but at about 30 yds trotting he wobbled....then slowed....then just tipped over. Femoral artery.

I've seen a bunch more long shots that I prefer NOT to talk about....suffice to say, I don't like shooting at aware animals. I think a guy just has to learn these things the hard way...so i'm not down on guys doing it.

Now many times we will be shooting at aware bulls we call in....but point blank shots I will take as they have an awfully hard time dodging an arrow at 20 yds or so and under!

[cohunter]

cohunter14 - I agree, bows are pretty quiet and most shots at that distance might be fine, but I'm not taking it! Beendare, those examples are exactly what I was thinking.

[>>>---WW---->]

For both A & B , 30 yards max. But I much prefer 20 and under. Getting close is the name of the game! Nothing like having a bull blow snot in your face.

[Roosiebull]

Beendare, I like to learn the hard way too...or maybe the woods force me to. It happened to me on a calm feeding elk, at that time it did not really have any shooting distance reference..if I shot well at a target at that distance, no reason not to shoot at an elk right? Huge vitals and all.

A spike, feeding unaware on the edge of a clear cut, made a big long loop to get wind good, then snuck through the cut undetected...then a cow came right to me, couldn't get closer, ranged the spike at 54, not a hard shot...

I shot, and he just took a step, luckily he was quartering away a bit, and got one lung and liver, and he ran about 200 yds into the cut, and I watched him tip over after a bit...but it was an eye opener to me. That was the only time I have shot an animal over 40 yds with my bow (besides sage rats) I have never needed to shoot further, and it's not fool proof, but less can go wrong during arrow flight, the closer I am.

[Roosiebull]

Another valid part of this conversation, how far are you willing to shoot without actually ranging the animal? I think that can get you in just as much trouble...I have talked to lots of folks who are proud of their field range estimates, but I have never seen anyone who is actually good at it.

Things look so much different in different habitat..an elk in the open looks closer than it is, one in the timber looks further.

I'm not saying there isn't anyone with a keen eye for yardage in any scenario, but I have not met one.

[DBLGBL]

Roosie makes a good point. I wouldn't think of shooting past 40 without ranging the target. I'm ranging inside of that too as long as the situation allows.


2gbl

[TimeOnTarget]

Another valid part of this conversation, how far are you willing to shoot without actually ranging the animal? I think that can get you in just as much trouble...I have talked to lots of folks who are proud of their field range estimates, but I have never seen anyone who is actually good at it.

Things look so much different in different habitat..an elk in the open looks closer than it is, one in the timber looks further.

I'm not saying there isn't anyone with a keen eye for yardage in any scenario, but I have not met one.

Beyond 20-30yds im wanting an actual range. Beyond 30, even modern bows start dropping fast and a miss judged distance of only a couple yards mean a miss or worse yet, a wounded animal.

[Swede]

When I first started bow hunting back in the early 70s I was doing a lot of forest surveys. I had to pace out the distance from plot to plot and measure distances around unit boundaries in the timber. In addition I measured the distance to thousands of trees. Still the most difficult thing for me in shooting animals was estimating distance on those partially hidden or moving.
Another thing to be concerned with shooting animals at longer distances is they can move for no reason. They are not jumping the string. They just decide to move ahead a step. I had that happen some years ago on a nice buck. I hit it too far back. The buck never new I was around, and was foraging along until an arrow went through its guts. It just takes one step to be the difference between a great shot and a wasted day looking for an animal that is never found.

[jmez]

60/40

As for the range, I don't guess. If I happen upon a critter and it has seen me first really not feasible that you have time to get out an arrow, nock it, draw and aim before it runs off. If I see them first then I'll range them immediately, before I start getting ready for the shot. If I'm going to set up and call I will take time to range various trees, rocks, bushes etc out to 60 yards so I'll have a pretty good idea how far they are when coming in. Any breaks in calling I take, I re range everything just to keep it all fresh in my mind.