Lip Bawl Bugle - When to use, what does it mean?

[eltaco]

Alright, seems we have a lot of threads going on various elk sounds and their meanings, here's one that I honestly don't know the answer to.

What does a lip bawl bugle mean, and when do you use it?

I'll say that I use the lip bawl quite a bit, just because I think it adds a bit of a realistic sound to the bugle... much like the throaty growl used at the beginning of some bugles. I'm not sure if a lip bawl bugle itself has a specific meaning, or if it's just a way to add realism.

In '09 I took a bull that would not respond unless my buddy (ElkManDan) threw a lip bawl into his bugle. Dan picked up on this quickly and used it in every sound he made from that point forward, and we continued to get a response until the bull took my carbon injection. That bull would not respond unless a lip bawl was thrown in, but could not help but sound off if Dan used it. I learned a lot about how elk respond to varieties of calls and sounds, which is why we alternate bugles between hunting partners in a setup... sometimes I get a response, sometimes my buddy does. That said, I'm not certain I've formed the right conclusion on what a lip bawl MEANS and HOW to use it effectively.

I'd love to hear your take on this vocalization.

[stringunner]

I too love the sound of a lip bawl and have probably used it more than it should be used and/or not in the right situations in the past. I'm learning now that perhaps the lip bawl is a signature bugle so to speak from one bull to his cows. The cows perhaps recognize "their" bull but his lip bawl bugle? I have heard it used to both simply keep tabs on "his" herd and as a round up bugle. While hunting in Wyoming a few years back I remember a bull that used it like crazy, he also had a herd of cows about 40+ and was keeping them moving back and forth non-stop as he was running other bulls off, I watch him use his lip bawl bugle to keep them rounded up and close to him.

Just some thoughts.

[RockChucker30]

I think that may be it. It may be just another way for a herd bull to show his dominance over other bulls and impress the ladies.

A better question is how do you imitate it? I've watched Paul's tutorial and still have more trouble with this sound than any other.

[eltaco]

I think everyone may do it a bit differently but I essentially pucker up like I'm giving my wife a giant sloppy kiss and blow thru my mouthpiece like a trumpet. Make a motorboat sound, if you will...

[RockChucker30]

eltaco,

That's a heckuva description! You've got sloppy kisses, trumpets, and motorboats wrapped up in the same call! LOL

I appreciate it. Maybe I need to loosen my lips up some. I always seem to run out of air before I get the right lip bawl sound.

[eltaco]

eltaco,

That's a heckuva description! You've got sloppy kisses, trumpets, and motorboats wrapped up in the same call! LOL

I appreciate it. Maybe I need to loosen my lips up some. I always seem to run out of air before I get the right lip bawl sound.

Why do you think that's my favorite sound? Lol!!

I think just work on trumpeting thru your tube without the call in your mouth. I know I have a hard time with this if the mouthpiece is smaller than 1" dia. Once you get the right amount of lip pressure figured out, start doing all bugles so you're ready to throw it in whenever you want... there should be no hesitation between your pitch and lip bawl.

[N5J]

Here is a video clip from U tube by World Champion Elk Caller Rocky Jacobsen...this is where I learned how to do it!
He shows how to grunt...lip bawl and more......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRXE3klyQOk

N5J

James

[SBH]

Yeah, that video by Rockie Jacobson is the one that I learned from too. It just made sense to me the way he described it and I was able to do it almost immediately. I used it with great success the following season in the appropriate situations.

[ElkNut1]

When a bull incorporates a short Lip Bawl into his scream or bugle he is either talking to his cows or calling cows to himself or to his harem. All bulls can & do use a Lip Bawl bugle! The more intense the Lip Bawl the more urgent the matter! The larger the herd the more Lip Bawls are generally used, the smaller the herd then fewer can be used.

For instance, if a herd bull is having issues with keeping his harem together you could hear him use this Lip Bawl as he controls their distance from him, this is especially so as the cows in his harem are in & out of estrus. A Lip Bawl is also used to gather his cows quickly because of an intruder bull nearby for possible departure of the area to avoid a confrontation or the possibility in losing any cows. Do not confuse a Lip Bawl with a Coarse Growl, this Growl is not for gathering but to keep other elk away!

Another time you will hear a Lip Bawl is if you are cow calling & a bull responds, he can use a short bugle pitch, a bugle & chuckles, chuckles, a Lip Bawl as he gets more demanding for you to come over to him! All these sounds are used to locate cows or call them to the bull using them! If you have an intruder bull get near a herd bull & he gives a Lip Bawl Bugle or a series of them he is trying to urgently call this bulls cows away from him, this is not a challenge bugle as a challenging scream would be with a coarse growl at the end of the bugle & possibly followed by heavy grunting. In this case this can really tick off a herd bull when another bull boldly comes right into their presence to pull cows from him!

There are other bugle tones subordinate bulls will use to draw cows their way, the Lip Bawl is the most demanding one! It's like telling your kid to take out the garbage, they don't do it, 10 minutes later you notice it's still there so now you put a more serious tone behind your request, they see you are very serious now & hop to it or else! (grin) The same applies to many elk sounds, there are times for urgency & times for not!

Lip Bawls can also be used in a challenge with another bull, difference is they are very long in comparison & many other sounds such as grunts, moans & unreal guttural groans will accompany them which is generally not heard when talking to the cows with the shorter versions!

ElkNut1

[32hunter]

So Paul when would a hunter use a lip bawl while in a hunting situation. I can do a real mean one but never used it whie hunting because i never knew when it was the right time. i always thought it was a type of chalange bugle but never really understood it wasnt till now.

[spyder24]

N5J, Thanks for the video clip from Rocky Jacobsen. Very useful instructions. Even I can understand them. Mike

[T/H]

i think the "lip bawl" or "buzz bugle" can be used to call cows away from a bull which should get him to seeing red if you are in close enough.

[ElkNut1]

When using the Lip Bawl while in close to the herd bull & harem you really do not desire the cows! It's a ploy to get the herd bull to "react" to a threatening situation to the the herd!

ElkNut1

[elkaholic]

When using the Lip Bawl while in close to the herd bull & harem you really do not desire the cows! It's a ploy to get the herd bull to "react" to a threatening situation to the the herd!

ElkNut1

So Paul would you save this sound till you are within 80 yrds or so of the herd, or could you use it at 150 yrds?

I'm gonna guess and say the closer you are to the herd the better the bull will react.?

Thanks.

[ElkNut1]

Closer is best for a very quick reaction from the bull especially if you are very near any cows or between him & his cows! If done at a greater distance you'd better be ready to move quickly to the bull & harem & screaming at his cows as you do, this too can ignite his temper & put him into a rage!

ElkNut1