Shot Placement- Photos

by **Breeze** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 1]

The topic had to come up...LOL!
Please, I'd like to see some serious photo's (and discussion) of elk in different poses/angles with constructive conversation. Of course there are varying opinions but in the end we all want to be in touch with our abilities, be ethical and successful. Someone posted about 'NOT' shooting at an elk (in another thread) due to the forward angle.... I want to know specifics so I can make my own knowledgeable decisions. I'm familiar with posts-of-the-past on another site and really appreciated the input from 'BB', and others there.

This could even be an ElkNut 'Shot Book'!
There are lots of guys like me (east of the west) who don't see enough elk in our daily lives and need a resource to look at as part of our 'tune-up'.
I may cut and paste and make a guide to keep in my camper, and so should others... Diagrams are nice, but real animals might be more 'sport specific'.
Thanks all.
Shots happen......

Breeze

by **mattstanton** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 2]

by **Breeze** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 3]

Very helpful Mattstanton. Thanks!

by **mattstanton** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 4]

the pic on the cow showes the bone structure of the front shoulder. The the heart is right in the "<" in the front shoulder. Most guys aim for the crease and that is a killer shot on the lungs but putting an arrow in this "<" is a 50yd track at best depending on angle of the animal. The frontal shot is the same scenario. It blows the top of the heart apart and makes for a short tracking job.

by **>>>---WW---->** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 5]

Great pictures and excellent shot placement. All deadly shots for sure. But personally, I'll try to stay away from the > area. Not that there is anything wrong and it is very deadly. I just don't want to cut up those good shoulder roast. But, if that is the shot an elk gives me, I'll take it.

by **eltaco** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 6]

On that picture of the cow standing broadside, do you guys try to tuck it in that close to the shoulder? Seems an inch or two forward and you have an Elk with a broadhead stuck in the shoulder bone.

I ask because my dad did it last year and we weren't able to retrieve the bull. Seems there would be quite a bit of area behind that point for a lung shot.

Honestly curious. I know that point is very deadly, but very tiny margain for error.

by **2OArchery** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 7]

I hope elknut doesn't mind, but this is the best info on shot placement I've come across.

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/t ... S=217&FF=5

by **mattstanton** » 07 23, 2012 • [Post 8]

eltaco wrote:On that picture of the cow standing broadside, do you guys try to tuck it in that close to the shoulder? Seems an inch or two forward and you have an Elk with a broadhead stuck in the shoulder bone.

I ask because my dad did it last year and we weren't able to retrieve the bull. Seems there would be quite a bit of area behind that point for a lung shot.

Honestly curious. I know that point is very deadly, but very tiny margain for error.

My answer to this question may differ from others but for me it is all related to distance. I shoot year round and shoot consistant 4" groups out to 40yds so that is my max distance on that particular shot. further than that, I aim for the crease. Shot angle also makes a difference. I always aim for the top of the heart. So on a quartered away shot I adjust my shot back as to still aim at the point where I feel the heart is. This will insure a single lung and heart or a double lung. I will post a pick of where i would aim on a quartering shot in referance to my "target"

by **Breeze** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 9]

How about a slightly quartering-to ? This is all helpful to me.... and others I'm sure. Thanks

by **stringunner** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 10]

I too would like to see one on a slightly quartering too shot, that one worries me the most of any of the frontal shots. I get shot placement for true front on shots, quartering away shots, and broadside, but the quartering too shot makes me worry....

by **slim9300** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 11]

mattstanton wrote:
eltaco wrote:On that picture of the cow standing broadside, do you guys try to tuck it in that close to the shoulder? Seems an inch or two forward and you have an Elk with a broadhead stuck in the shoulder bone.

I ask because my dad did it last year and we weren't able to retrieve the bull. Seems there would be quite a bit of area behind that point for a lung shot.

Honestly curious. I know that point is very deadly, but very tiny margain for error.

My answer to this question may differ from others but for me it is all related to distance. I shoot year round and shoot consistant 4" groups out to 40yds so that is my max distance on that particular shot. further than that, I aim for the crease. Shot angle also makes a difference. I always aim for the top of the heart. So on a quartered away shot I adjust my shot back as to still aim at the point where I feel the heart is. This will insure a single lung and heart or a double lung. I will post a pick of where i would aim on a quartering shot in referance to my "target"

You are on top of things Matt.

This was going to be my exact response to Jeremy's question.

by **eltaco** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 12]

This is why I'd like to see posted diagrams of where the vitals and bones lie, because yes, I believe that shot to be extremely deadly... also seems risky to me. I also shoot all year long and feel my groups are very respectable, but I suspect missing forward by a couple of inches on that broadside cow means a wounded animal... seems to me there is a lot more room for error just a bit further back. A 4" group at 40yds wouldn't be sufficient if your arrow ends up 4" forward on that shot, JMO. Let's also not forget a hunting situation likely widens our groups from what we can do in the back yard.

I don't mean to disagree or argue, just wanting to learn and let others learn where the vitals actually lie in those pics for the sake of discussion. This one is pretty fresh in my memory since my dad shouldered that bull last season... he thought he made the perfect heart shot, and likely only missed it by a couple of inches when he could have made a double lung a ways back and been safer.

by **mattstanton** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 13]

This pic os of the heart in relation to the front shoulder. To better answer your question about the margin of error, I feel confident that a forward step at the shot will cause a double lung hit. I have yet to see or hear of an animal stepping backwards at the shot and this makes me more confident in my selection of aiming points. Once again, this is my preferance and may not be for everyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with aiming a little back from there in the crease. That will kill em every day man.

by **eltaco** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 14]

Thanks Matt for that picture... aside from being a great learning tool, that's also some extremely fine artwork with the heart and bone outline tracing

I'm fairly new to archery hunting and elk hunting... grew up rifle hunting whitetail and never spent a lot of time worrying about shot placement. Never lost an animal, but I feel its important that I spend a good deal of time studying shot placement on an elk with a bow.

I really appreciate your help. I'm sure others are finding this very useful!

by **ElkManDan** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 15]

The locations pointed out are probably the most deadly spots to aim but in my opinion not the best place to aim. The lungs are very large and give you the most room for error. If you are a very confident shooter and not worried about pulling an arrow 3-4 inches either way then you are probably safe in aiming at these spots. If you have a little adrenaline pumping or want to give yourself a little more room for error while still making a deadly easy to retrieve shot I would definitely aim about 3-4 inches back on the broadside shots. It also gives you a little room for distance judgement error. If you miss judge the distance and shoot them for longer than they truly are if you are aiming that far forward there is a good likelihood that you will hit the shoulder blade and will have no chance at recovery.

by **CrazyElkHunter** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 16]

Broadside, 50 yd shot

by **Goneelkn** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 17]

Hey you just put a hole in a good piece of meat :lol:

Good shooting!

by **mattstanton** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 18]

frontal shot area.

by **slim9300** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 19]

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343185538.433783.jpg (137.16 KiB) Viewed 48875 times

If you shoot behind the crease and end up hitting low there is nothing there. If you end up pulling the shot back into the guts or the animal moves forward, the elk is now gut shot and the average bowhunters chance of recovery is slim; not to mention the animal is dead. If you shoot an elk in the shoulder because you pull the shot forward or low, it's going to live 9 times out of 10. I used to shoot elk behind the crease and I am ashamed to say this led to gut shooting two elk that were lost. Since I started aiming up the leg and a tad into the shoulder meat and low, I haven't lost an elk yet. (not counting one that hit a twig I couldn't see) Keep in mind this is when shooting inside 40 yards. When I shoot outside of 40 yards I aim mid lungs and directly on the crease. I thank my change in aiming point to BB's thread over on Bowsite a few years back. If you haven't read that thread you are doing yourself a disservice.

by **ElkManDan** » 07 24, 2012 • [Post 20]

I've read it and do not disagree with where the vitals are at. I'm just saying that your best overall chances of hitting vitals is to aim for the center of them. I also agree that too many people think that the lungs extend further back than they do. I would also go a little higher to avoid missing the lungs low as you stated there is not a lot under the lungs either. I've blown the heart out of a few animals, I was aiming for the lungs and missed by a few inches this is why I go center of the lungs to give myself a little cushion just in case my nerves get the best of me. You'r broadside bull pic is pretty close to where I would aim just a couple inches higher and back an inch or 2. The Cow is the one that I would aim a few inches back and a few inches up to give myself a little room for error.

by **slim9300** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 21]

ElkManDan wrote:I've read it and do not disagree with where the vitals are at. I'm just saying that your best overall chances of hitting vitals is to aim for the center of them. I also agree that too many people think that the lungs extend further back than they do. I would also go a little higher to avoid missing the lungs low as you stated there is not a lot under the lungs either. I've blown the heart out of a few animals, I was aiming for the lungs and missed by a few inches this is why I go center of the lungs to give myself a little cushion just in case my nerves get the best of me. You'r broadside bull pic is pretty close to where I would aim just a couple inches higher and back an inch or 2. The Cow is the one that I would aim a few inches back and a few inches up to give myself a little room for error.

I don't disagree with that shot placement. It's exactly where I aim at 50+ yards. There are too many guys that are so afraid of the shoulder that they tend to shoot way back. Those are the ones who need to be educated.

by **>>>---WW---->** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 22]

I'm not going to argue about shot placement. To each his own. However, I must comment on Slim9300's picture. It has been noted many times that the enternal organs super imposed on the elk are actually that of a moose. So you need to crunch things up a whole bunch both lengthwise and heigthwise to get a more accurate idea of exactly where everything lies.

by **slim9300** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 23]

>>>---WW----> wrote:I'm not going to argue about shot placement. To each his own. However, I must comment on Slim9300's picture. It has been noted many times that the enternal organs super imposed on the elk are actually that of a moose. So you need to crunch things up a whole bunch both lengthwise and heigthwise to get a more accurate idea of exactly where everything lies.

Makes sense. I just figured they struggled a little with the scale.

I mean look at the size of that liver?!

To me the most important part of that diagram is the location of the heart with regards to the shoulder.

by **Freebird134** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 24]

slim9300 wrote:There are too many guys that are so afraid of the shoulder that they tend to shoot way back. Those are the ones who need to be educated.

Agree 100%. When I look back on all the animals I've lost, I think all of them were from this reason alone. I didn't really have a bowhunting mentor growing up--I learned mostly on my own. And I learned a lot the hard way. Being "afraid of the shoulder" is exactly what was going on in my mind. Once I corrected this, bloodtrails got a lot shorter.

by **Breeze** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 25]

Options for Quartering-to, anyone?

It sounds like there are lots of opinions.... 6 of one/half dozen of another. We all have to decide on what is (exactly) right for us, and usually in the blink of an eye!
I'm appreciating the input... and ruminating for my own choices... so thanks again!

??? are there copyright considerations for posted photos/diagrams? I'm keeping a file (copy/paste) and am considering printing a collage or making a poster for keeping at camp, for developing that 'mental imagery' before the shot as well as for trouble shooting (hopefully never!) after the shot. Example: Way back in the day, Art Laha (?) printed a booklet for tracking deer that included blood/hair/diagrams/the whole 9 yards

, and it wasn't perfect (maybe not even very good by today's standards)....but we sure looked at it a lot, especially in times of need, ie after the shot. I like to be prepared for the easy shot/tracking, and/but also for those times of 'angst'.

Breeze

by **mattstanton** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 26]

A quartering too shot is a no no in my opinion. I won't take it. Frontal, broadside or quartering away only for me.

by **Breeze** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 27]

How about this one?

by **Breeze** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 28]

Ah Ha! I found the photo that started my conundrum in the first place on the 'BB' thread. My apologies for borrowing his photo for this topic. What a guy!

by **slim9300** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 29]

Breeze wrote:Ah Ha! I found the photo that started my conundrum in the first place on the 'BB' thread. My apologies for borrowing his photo for this topic. What a guy!

Bad idea.

by **slim9300** » 07 25, 2012 • [Post 30]

Breeze wrote:How about this one?

I would shoot. The elk is barely quartering to and you can easily get both lungs. Shoot mid shoulder in terms of height, 1-2" forward into the meat. I killed my biggest bull at 17 yards with this exact shot and angle. Expect 3/4 penetration and your arrow to stay in the animal though.

by **LckyTylr** » 07 30, 2012 • [Post 31]

Slim, can you repost the last pic with a dot precisely where you would aim?

Please, EVERYONE that has some confidence in your elk killing ability, post up more pics with shot-dots.

It's really nice to see shot placement for a few different angles, it would be AWESOME to see Several examples of each (bulls and cows).

Thanks, this is my FAVORITE thread.

by **WapitiTalk1** » 07 30, 2012 • [Post 32]

This will do the job if the shot is close enough (well under 20 yards IMO and the bull is frozen). Any frontal shot is touchy and one must be in control of their emotions before touching off the arrow. A twitch by the elk in any direction results in a bad story at the end of the season.

: bullelkclose[1].jpg (293.74 KiB) Viewed 48723 times

by **slim9300** » 07 30, 2012 • [Post 33]

LckyTylr wrote:Slim, can you repost the last pic with a dot precisely where you would aim?

Please, EVERYONE that has some confidence in your elk killing ability, post up more pics with shot-dots.

It's really nice to see shot placement for a few different angles, it would be AWESOME to see Several examples of each (bulls and cows).

Thanks, this is my FAVORITE thread.

This one?

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343708482.540294.jpg (88.13 KiB) Viewed 48717 times

by **T/H** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 34]

slim9300 wrote:
LckyTylr wrote:Slim, can you repost the last pic with a dot precisely where you would aim?

Please, EVERYONE that has some confidence in your elk killing ability, post up more pics with shot-dots.

It's really nice to see shot placement for a few different angles, it would be AWESOME to see Several examples of each (bulls and cows).

Thanks, this is my FAVORITE thread.

This one?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343708482.540294.jpg

on this angle i am shooting directly in line with the front leg on this side and maybe even a little further forward and watching him fall in site. i have made this shot on 2 cows and 3 deer now and none have made it out of my visual site, 30 to 50 yard recoveries and no trailing or tracking needed. i shoot thru the > every chance i get after seeing Joehunters post

by **tracker12** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 35]

Great thread and reading BB's post is very informative. I have been shooting deer for 40 years now and still have a hard time pulling the pin close to the shoulder. Unfortunately I think my eyes instinctively look farther back. I shot a nice bull in UT a few years ago at 25 yards with a Muzzy and expected him to fall right down and he did'nt. Instead he walked about 60 yards and laid down. I reloaded and when he stood up my partner said shoot him tighter in the shoulder. I shot tight in and he went right down. I shot seven deer in Maryland last year and each were farther towards the shoulder. Results speak for themselves as all were recovered within 70 yards. I'm starting to be a believer but it is still hard to do after all these years.

by **LckyTylr** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 36]

Yes Slim.

Keep 'em coming everyone. Can you smell the smoke . . . . . . . . I'm LEARNING!!! :lol:

More pics and shot-dots! Please.

by **easeup** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 37]

Breeze wrote:How about this one?

the wise bowhunter will wait on this one. This elk is not worried about you and he will turn enough to be killed.
wait!

by **ElkNut1** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 38]

Yes, WAIT on that last photo, more harm than good can come from forcing that shot, he will turn or face you, be patient as he is not showing signs of bolting.

ElkNut1

by **easeup** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 39]

Phantom16 wrote:This will do the job if the shot is close enough (well under 20 yards IMO and the bull is frozen). Any frontal shot is touchy and one must be in control of their emotions before touching off the arrow. A twitch by the elk in any direction results in a bad story at the end of the season.

bullelkclose[1].jpg

OK....friends..I gotta ask on this one. I would have not taken this shot at all for fear of losing the bull because I cant get both lungs. I can hit the spot, so my concern is not my ability to make it count when the moment of truth arrives. This particular shot is a common event when he is comng in. My instincts tell me to wait it out and see if I can get a better angle.
help me out here....

by **foxvalley** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 40]

easeup wrote:
Phantom16 wrote:This will do the job if the shot is close enough (well under 20 yards IMO and the bull is frozen). Any frontal shot is touchy and one must be in control of their emotions before touching off the arrow. A twitch by the elk in any direction results in a bad story at the end of the season.

bullelkclose[1].jpg

OK....friends..I gotta ask on this one. I would have not taken this shot at all for fear of losing the bull because I cant get both lungs. I can hit the spot, so my concern is not my ability to make it count when the moment of truth arrives. This particular shot is a common event when he is comng in. My instincts tell me to wait it out and see if I can get a better angle.
help me out here....

My experience when a bull is THIS close is and if he sees you,there eyes get as big as saucers before they turn inside out getting the heck out of there. I would hope to be at full draw, and if I am, I AM SHOOTING!!!!!

by **idahoghost** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 41]

Hi everyone, I would love to see some shot placement photos from above in tree stand, say 20ft? I know you should aim for the exit, but I still would like some input. Swede, help please!

by **slim9300** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 42]

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343762773.114765.jpg (71.46 KiB) Viewed 48667 times

Even at 10 yards I'm not taking this shot. I would hold still and wait. It's about 50/50 that a shot will present itself.

by **slim9300** » 07 31, 2012 • [Post 43]

Here you go.

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343765984.633644.jpg (87.07 KiB) Viewed 48659 times

by **T/H** » 08 02, 2012 • [Post 44]

slim9300 wrote:Here you go.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343765984.633644.jpg

dead elk standing

by **westaner** » 08 02, 2012 • [Post 45]

Please phantom! don't take that shot! That's a behind the shoulder shot if any. If your lucky you got neck artery.
Another point I need to make is the first front on shot pic is a bit low, draw a line between the to leg joints protruding forward and the bottom of the 6 inch hole is slightly below that line. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I've noticed.

by **Freebird134** » 08 19, 2012 • [Post 46]

Easy shot if you play the angles...

by **pointysticks** » 08 20, 2012 • [Post 47]

freebird..the ethical thing would be to skip it off the cow first..bankshot!!
justkidding!!

GREAT THREAD!! i never really looked at the sideways V in any photo before..great information.

by **Freebird134** » 08 20, 2012 • [Post 48]

pointysticks wrote:freebird..the ethical thing would be to skip it off the cow first..bankshot!!
justkidding!!

Well obviously! But only if you have two tags!

by **easeup** » 08 20, 2012 • [Post 49]

we got the same thread going over on AT.
that big bull picture at 10 yds looking at me has me going. do you guys really shoot in front of that shoulder?

by **gman82001** » 08 20, 2012 • [Post 50]

This is awesome between this thread and the linked thread there is a ton of info now I just gotta remember if I can ever get to crunch time on an elk