Are You "Stuck in a Rut"?

[Trophyhill]

A great elk killer once told me,
"Not all elk encounters are created equal", so many of us will continue to make mistakes while experience catches up. But are you repeating the same mistakes that may be preventing you from killing elk consistently if at all? My first few years have been loaded with mistakes. The toughest one for me to overcome was a hunting style. I was doing a lot of things right with lots of opportunity and have even had success but far more failures. This mistake was being a passive hunter which led to a lot of indecision and second guessing. It wasn't easy making the switch to a more aggressive style of hunting because I was seeing a lot of elk with the old approach which by the way was call and hope they come in for a shot without hanging up. It took a while to realize that I was doing the same things over and over.

So with that being said, for us less experienced guys, what are you doing or not doing that may be contributing to memories without a kill? For me I made a conscious decision to call and move and at times go straight at vocal animals almost daring them to meet me on the trail some where.

And for the experienced guys, what are some hurdles you've overcome hunting wise that maybe some of you haven't told us about? A lot of you guys are looked at as great hunters with a false perception that you've never screwed up and what do you see in terms of what may be holding folks back from joining the 10% club?

[otcWill]

Good post, Tropyhill!!

1. Recognize the connection between large private parcels of elk country to the elks movements on and off of public. In Colorado, I've found this the single most relevant factor in locating bigger bulls and larger numbers of elk. I'm not talking about trolling private boundaries rather looking for large (or small) public travel corridors between big, private, particularly unhunted ranches and estates. This is probably the best CO elk finding advice I've ever posted online. Find your next spot this way and let me know how it works out.

2. Slow down

3. Learn how to say what the elk want to hear and toss your calls if you don't know what you're saying. I know some dang good hunters who couldn't "talk" to the elk if their lives depended on it.

4. Work harder than every other hunter in the woods. Do something to improve your odds everyday all year long whether thats a lil internet scouting or sending some pms and trying to acquire new info or working out/shooting the bow.

Simple list here that works for me

[Fridaythe13th]

I see what you mean. I hunted the same way after we found elk had opportunity but brought home tag soup. While my brother was out challenging elk and haven a lot better luck.
I have turkey hunted for 25 years and what I learned is it's not as much fun if they walk in silent. I like to see them running in gobbling there head off. To get them to do that you have to be aggressive.
I just have to change my mind set to turkey hunting, except elk have a nose.

[Toby]

I have tried to maintain vocal contact with bulls from too great a distance. My intent this year is too move in towards the bull sooner and closer than I have in the past, before making my next move.

[easeup]

at the risk of sounding like an a--ho%%, the single biggest change I ever made was to not hunt with my old friends from long ago.
a big change it was; its like a divorce from the old hunting lifestyle. I put down the rifle and picked up a bow and headed to new country.
Now it meant learning how to hunt solo. It meant learning all new things. And I have Never looked back. Looking back on it, it has surely been one of the best things I ever did.

[zpd307]

A great elk killer once told me,
"Not all elk encounters are created equal", so many of us will continue to make mistakes while experience catches up. But are you repeating the same mistakes that may be preventing you from killing elk consistently if at all? My first few years have been loaded with mistakes. The toughest one for me to overcome was a hunting style. I was doing a lot of things right with lots of opportunity and have even had success but far more failures. This mistake was being a passive hunter which led to a lot of indecision and second guessing. It wasn't easy making the switch to a more aggressive style of hunting because I was seeing a lot of elk with the old approach which by the way was call and hope they come in for a shot without hanging up. It took a while to realize that I was doing the same things over and over.

So with that being said, for us less experienced guys, what are you doing or not doing that may be contributing to memories without a kill? For me I made a conscious decision to call and move and at times go straight at vocal animals almost daring them to meet me on the trail some where.

And for the experienced guys, what are some hurdles you've overcome hunting wise that maybe some of you haven't told us about? A lot of you guys are looked at as great hunters with a false perception that you've never screwed up and what do you see in terms of what may be holding folks back from joining the 10% club?

david, you described me to a T!!!! this site has changed my way of thinking. I am going to be a part of the 10% club this year. already getting the tattoo designed in my head

[Trophyhill]

A great elk killer once told me,
"Not all elk encounters are created equal", so many of us will continue to make mistakes while experience catches up. But are you repeating the same mistakes that may be preventing you from killing elk consistently if at all? My first few years have been loaded with mistakes. The toughest one for me to overcome was a hunting style. I was doing a lot of things right with lots of opportunity and have even had success but far more failures. This mistake was being a passive hunter which led to a lot of indecision and second guessing. It wasn't easy making the switch to a more aggressive style of hunting because I was seeing a lot of elk with the old approach which by the way was call and hope they come in for a shot without hanging up. It took a while to realize that I was doing the same things over and over.

So with that being said, for us less experienced guys, what are you doing or not doing that may be contributing to memories without a kill? For me I made a conscious decision to call and move and at times go straight at vocal animals almost daring them to meet me on the trail some where.

And for the experienced guys, what are some hurdles you've overcome hunting wise that maybe some of you haven't told us about? A lot of you guys are looked at as great hunters with a false perception that you've never screwed up and what do you see in terms of what may be holding folks back from joining the 10% club?

david, you described me to a T!!!! this site has changed my way of thinking. I am going to be a part of the 10% club this year. already getting the tattoo designed in my head

Now I don't feel so all alone

[zpd307]

awww, im here for ya buddy

[Trophyhill]

I'd like to hear Rory's thoughts from a different perspective since I know that for him not just any elk will do. Are you stuck in a rut? Or just in a slump? I sure look forward to seeing a bigun hit the ground for you this upcoming season. What do you need to do to make this happen?

[WapitiTalk1]

I'd like to hear Rory's thoughts from a different perspective since I know that for him not just any elk will do. Are you stuck in a rut? Or just in a slump? I sure look forward to seeing a bigun hit the ground for you this upcoming season. What do you need to do to make this happen?

Mine is easy David.. Quit being so picky. After knocking down a handfull+ elk with my bow, I made the personal choice that I would not shoot cows or raghorns. Why? Wifey doesn't eat wild meat (never has) and for me, shooting any elk too early ends my elk season and time in the mountains. Well, this philosophy hasn't worked so well for my batting average Did it again last year in WA. Had a slam dunk on a BIG roosey cow less than a mile from a road but.. saw antler tips coming up behind the small group and decided to wait for bullwinkle. Didn't get a shot on the bull (really nice bull by the way). I reversed my philosophy over the past few years on the bulls though and will take a legal bull (well, as long as it's not too small) so hopefully, I can get back on track. I have no trouble at all getting into elk pretty much daily, sometimes, twice per day where I hunt in two states but need to start taking some elk down pictures I suppose

Good thread buddy. The "hunt aggressive" point is very important for all who read your words. Gotta take the action to them. Good talking to you the other night.

[Trophyhill]

I learned the hunt aggressive stuff from guys like you Rory and I'll tell ya, I'm still makin mistakes but aggressive sure is fun!

[ElkNut1]

Being aggressive is huge in the right situation for sure! My motto is aggressive action kills elk! However, there are times patience is the key to success as well. In the past I wanted quick satisfaction, when it didn't happen as quick as I had hoped I'd move on, many times it was the wrong decision & would bump into elk coming my way in a silent fashion! These days being aggressive or not I do my best to "allow things to develop" I have no time table & neither do the elk! (grin) I will wait in area longer than in the past once calling is used!

ElkNut1

[dreamhunter]

Now this is some good stuff,I had to get my notepad out and jot some things down.I really like your first one, otcWill .

[Trophyhill]

Being aggressive is huge in the right situation for sure! My motto is aggressive action kills elk! However, there are times patience is the key to success as well. In the past I wanted quick satisfaction, when it didn't happen as quick as I had hoped I'd move on, many times it was the wrong decision & would bump into elk coming my way in a silent fashion! These days being aggressive or not I do my best to "allow things to develop" I have no time table & neither do the elk! (grin) I will wait in area longer than in the past once calling is used!

ElkNut1

Can we call this patiently aggressive? <grin> That is a great point! Choosing the right time for aggressive action is huge! That is the balance we must find.

[Trophyhill]

Now this is some good stuff,I had to get my notepad out and jot some things down.I really like your first one, otcWill .

I agree. When this elk killer talks, I listen

[Garrett Drach]

My intent this year is too move in towards the bull sooner and closer than I have in the past, before making my next move.

I've picked up on this tactic also, something I learned from listening to others on this site.

Our tactic this year is to hunt less with our optics and more with our ears. Historically our group has hunted through our optics in the mornings and evenings, which allowed us to see lots of elk and observe their behavior and patterns (and we really just enjoyed seeing elk which we didn't have back home), however it wasn't conducive to getting within shooting distance before the winds started swirling. This year, instead of glassing, we want to be at a location before first light or during the evening, where we predict the elk will be and listen. Once we hear them we will be close enough to quickly make a play, or several plays, before the winds swirl.

[Swede]

The toughest one for me to overcome was a hunting style. I was doing a lot of things right with lots of opportunity and have even had success but far more failures. This mistake was being a passive hunter which led to a lot of indecision and second guessing. It wasn't easy making the switch to a more aggressive style of hunting

While I was away, I got to following this thread with some interest. In it I read some interesting thoughts and perspectives. I think there is a common misconception that sitting and waiting, whether from a tree stand or from a spot on a hillside glassing over the surrounding terrain is not really trying, and not going to be effective. Calling and waiting at a set location for up to an hour is thought to be wasting time there.
Just as a hawk sitting on a limb is hunting, and a cougar hunkered down waiting for just the right moment to strike is hunting, so is the human that shows patience. Patience and indecision are not synonymous. Neither is active or aggressive and decisive. If a hunter wants to consistently kill elk, never forget patience is more than a great asset to have. It is essential. It is not what you develop when you are old and can't "really" hunt anymore. Patience will pay an even bigger dividend for the young hunter than it will for the older hunter.

[easeup]

OK Swede; I like your thought. just as a hawk sitting on a limb is hunting
are there anymore thoughts that goes with it?

[ElkNut1]

Hey swede, short vacation there? Hope all is OK!

ElkNut1

[Swede]

Thanks for the thoughts Paul. Everything is fine. My wife and I went to be with grandkids a few days and to babysit while their regular babysitter was gone. I have a sore neck now from piggy back rides. lol

Easeup: My point with the illustration was simply to demonstrate how being patient or passive is not necessarily being indecisive. I think some times we believe we must do something on the move, or we are not really hunting. Paul explained it well, but I wanted to add just a little to that point. Being patient is not just for tree stand hunters.

[mongopino915]

Being aggressive is huge in the right situation for sure! My motto is aggressive action kills elk! However, there are times patience is the key to success as well. In the past I wanted quick satisfaction, when it didn't happen as quick as I had hoped I'd move on, many times it was the wrong decision & would bump into elk coming my way in a silent fashion! These days being aggressive or not I do my best to "allow things to develop" I have no time table & neither do the elk! (grin) I will wait in area longer than in the past once calling is used!

ElkNut1

Paul pretty much nailed what I wanted to say.

Guys that has been elk calling/hunting for decade(s) have told me that they have never seen anyone as aggressive as I am but at the same time, I have worked bulls for 4 plus hours to "allow things to develop" as seem fit or wait 90 minutes when blind cold calling.

Over time and with lots of mistakes/experiences, you should be able predict and intercept to ambush them before they are spooked or see you.

I have come to the conclusion that the only bull I will kill is the one that has no idea I am even there.

[elk-n-walleye]

Yeah I'm stuck in a rut... I wake up, go to work, come home for lunch, check these forums during lunch, go back to work, come home, eat dinner, check these forums, spend time with my family, go to bed, repeat. How long until September?

[Trophyhill]

Yeah I'm stuck in a rut... I wake up, go to work, come home for lunch, check these forums during lunch, go back to work, come home, eat dinner, check these forums, spend time with my family, go to bed, repeat. How long until September?

I know something that might help. I've got a couple poles rigged up for bottom bouncing, a couple with crankbaits and a couple with jigs and my lil aluminum fishin boat is ready to go. It's almost time to start catchin some western 'eyes

[elk-n-walleye]

Yeah I'm stuck in a rut... I wake up, go to work, come home for lunch, check these forums during lunch, go back to work, come home, eat dinner, check these forums, spend time with my family, go to bed, repeat. How long until September?

I know something that might help. I've got a couple poles rigged up for bottom bouncing, a couple with crankbaits and a couple with jigs and my lil aluminum fishin boat is ready to go. It's almost time to start catchin some western 'eyes

I'm definitely tempted to buy an res license for WY during my semester break in May. I'll have a week back at home. It may be the perfect time to get out on the local lake and catch some walleye. I've been itching to catch them for a while now. Thanks for the nudge Trophy. I may just do that now.

[Washington Wapiti]

I'm not stuck in a rut, but I HAVE been "Caught in a Mosh!" Sorry some old metal-head humor there.
I finally just got out of my 4 year rut last year, for the love.

[dierwolf]

Trophyhill sent me a msg asking if I had ever hunted in GMU 561, within which I used to live, and the answer is no, and for some reason I cant post to that message privately, so I'm rolling that into here. I am in the process of saving up for an AR45, which is an AR15 chambered for 45 pistol. This is an intermediate range carbine, which will require me to call in the bulls just as if I were hunting with a compound bow, and to stalk and track them accordingly. While I have prior hunting experience with white tails on the east coast, this will be my first big game hunt of any sort. Having lived in Salida, and hiked all over Gunnison and Chafee counties, I am also not naïve to the topography of the area. I plan to focus my search for big bulls on areas that have the aforementioned connections with public/private land intersections, as well as sloping elevation changes leading to water. im not one hundred percent sure if that's going to be a winner, but I have months of research and discussion time on several forums like this one to refine the basic idea. oh and if anyones concerned about ballistics vis a vis using a pistol caliber at close range on such a large animal, I have access to some wildcat handloads designed for the purpose by a friend of mine. so long as I can draw him in to about 30-50 yards, I am as comfortably sure of a humane kill as I can be. will keep you all updated as to what I learn and my eventual experiences with that knowledge.

[dierwolf]

oh and another thing, mule deer bunch up in salida including some very very respectable elder bucks from time to time. I've personally seen a small group of elk running parallel to the highway going through monarch pass, about 5 minutes before Garfield (a small mountain town in the pass between salida and the ski park). but I didn't get a look at any bulls, and it was early winter so im guessing they were probably on their way into the deeper parts of the forest to winter down, is that a generally accurate assumption of their behavior? Im really itching to go hiking, being stuck in north Carolina for a while rrrreeaaallly blows.

[dierwolf]

here's a good article on the topic of elk hunting in that area that I found. quite informative.

http://www.biggamehunt.net/stories/colo ... h-mountain

[Trophyhill]

Thanks for sharing dierwolf!

[twinkieman]

Great thread!
1. Go the extra mile. Be in shape, and be willing to go where ever you have to, to get to that bull!
2. Practice your calling as much as you practice with your bow. If you are unsure about the sounds that elk make, Paul has shortened that learning curve significantly, just visit the Elknut store.
3. Learn your hunt area, take notes each year, build a notebook, in a few short years you may be surprised.
4. Allow yourself an adequate amount of time to be able to hunt. While not everyone has an unlimited amount of time, try to make sure that you have enough time in the woods to be successful.

Just a few of my thoughts

[dierwolf]

No worries Trophyhill, my hiking experiences in the area are a HUGE ace up my sleeve. I have physically been there, now I just have to mate that experience with where the elk are likely to find themselves. I really enjoy being in the woods, so going the extra mile is no biggie for me, even if I don't manage to get a bull, the entire area is just truly majestic. I heartily recommend people vacation there, let alone hunt it.

if anyone would like to take a look at my nature notes journals from my hikes, id be happy to share those as well. these were written with an aeye towards survival as opposed to hunting but there may be pertinent observations, I imagine one is inseparable from the other at the extreme end of survival games lol.