Cow elk from a "Hell Hole" or bull only?

[Lark Bunting]

I am possibly hunting with a group of guys next year in an area refered to as a Hell Hole. I was told that if I kill a cow down there I was on my own for the hike out. It is a backpacking trip 4ish miles from the trail head. They did however say if I killed a bull they are all-in for helping hike it out.

Next year will be my second season and it's in an area that seeing elk is supposed to be a no brainer. Cow elk seem to be common, bulls not so much.

Since I am a new hunter in general I wasn't sure if this was commonplace. This season was a learning experience for me and my son. I never got close to an elk let alone have the opportunity to pass on a cow.

Is this a rule for you and your group?

Do I pass the opportunity to take a cow in order to avoid the solo pack out? (Is this possible solo?)

Appreciate any input.

[ElkNut1]

Tom, it's pretty much a standing rule not to shoot a cow or spike in "hell holes" especially in those where 4 miles + is concerned. (grin) I'm sure your buds would end up helping out if it were to happen but generally most hunters would pass on the temptation because of the distance involved & the time it takes to haul one out on their backs! Generally cows & spikes can be had within a mile of roads or trail heads so why kill one in tough areas. Thinking can change though if the hunt turns out to be a tough one & time is running short & a cow pops out! (grin)

ElkNut1

[cnelk]

We have taken cows 4-5 miles from the truck.
Now those places are 'bull only'

Cows can be had easier than breaking your back.
But I do understand the enthusiasm of harvesting your 1st elk.

If you do shoot a cow 4-5 miles back and have to get it out by yourself, it will be something you will never, ever forget.

Yes. Its doable .... and memorable

[Swede]

There are all kinds of four mile pack outs. If you want a cow, then just remember it is probably four 80+# loads out. If you want one that bad, then go for it. I would make it clear up front that you will accept no help, and you will not be available to help anyone else out either during the two days you will be packing. Personally I don't need a cow that bad, and I am not totally focused on a trophy.

[Trophyhill]

antlers don't make or break my hunt. going home with an unfilled tag is unacceptable to me. distance is not an obstacle for me. if I'm that far back it's because I'm trying to kill an elk.

[Swamp Buck]

When you have the 80# pack of meat on your back I don't think it matters much if it was a cow or bull. Real friends would help and be happy for you.

[Willie makit]

Good thing is you've got plenty of time to think over the situation. Since you are new to hunting in general, the itchy trigger finger, adrenalin and excitement of being up close will definitely be hard to resist. Sounds like your goals and there's is not the same, it DOES sound like a golden opportunity to look and learn though. They are laying down the rules early, you can't be upset or mad if they follow it TO THE LETTER.


I do agree with Elknut1 that most likely they would help you pack it out (at least I hope someone would), you also must keep in mind that this will take away there hunting time and be considerate of that fact. I also guarantee two things: you won't win the most popular guy in camp award if you do this and the pack out WILL help you make decisions for the next time.


For me hunting has always been a roller coaster of emotions and feelings, from misery, to excitement, sadness, anticipation and appreciation. One certain fact about hunting is once you pull the trigger and the tag is filled it now becomes WORK. I've yet to see a tread or advertisement stating "ill pack out your elk for free, just for the fun of it." Be it .5 miles or 5.

[BrentLaBere]

First year elk hunting I helped out a I guy I had met one day in the field. I had a smile on my face the whole time and I asked if I could take pictures of it.
I get just as excited to see someone else success in the field be it a stranger or a hunting partner. I am there to hunt and take care of the meat when necessary. I would encourage anyone I am hunting with to shoot whatever floats their boat and will take time out of my hunt to pack it out because that's why I am there.......Ill keep that smile on my face all the way through till the end. Now the next best thing starts because I have a tag in my pocket while heading up the mountain!

[Swede]

We were discussing not taking advantage of fellow hunters on another thread. If I am invited on a hunt, where the understanding is that anyone who shoots a cow is on their own, then I should expect to take care of my cow myself. Under those circumstances, it is taking advantage of your hosts to even put them in a position where they have to pack out your cow. Just remember they set the rules of the hunt before you joined them and warned you of the consequences. If you man up and pack out your own elk, then you will most likely be invited back. If you make them feel you can't without wasting the elk, then the next season you will be looking for new hunting companions.
I hunt with a bunch of 60+ year olds. We have a few places that are off limits. We do not test the waters, so to speak, to see if they would follow through on their warnings to let you do all of your own pack out. In our camp, I am satisfied that anyone who shoots an elk in a designated "hell hole" will have the honor of carrying out their elk on their own. If you shoot an elk and it travels wounded into a hell hole, then that is different. Personally, I consider that quite fair.

[pointysticks]

i would fire that arrow without thinking about it. zing!!

rifle shot..maybe not. but i do love elkmeat. and so does my wife. i think i could do 4 miles pretty easy solo. even if i had to take several trips. i wouldnt expect anyone to help me..especially if they are still hunting for that bull.

[Swamp Buck]

Sorry, I see you just said you were going with a "group of guys"... not friends. In that case I would plan to pack out the cow alone. You can do it.

[MTLongdraw]

I might be a little twisted in the head but I absolutely love hauling elk out on my back. I've carried a half of an elk at once by myself two times in the last two years and both times they were for other people. The first time was about 3 miles up hill and the other was 2.5 miles flat most of the way. I did it because I like to help people and I love to see the excitement on someone's face when they harvest their trophy. I agree that if your 4 miles back it's because your busting your butt looking for an elk. So if you happen to find one I guess that's why you're there. The only time I limit where I'm going solo is if I'm concerned about the weather (too hot and meat would spoil before I get it out). Be honest with yourself, if you think you can get an elk out solo and you're body can take it then shoot that cow if that's what your really want. The trophy is in the eye of the beholder and you will remember the hunt. Just my two cents.

[Indian Summer]

First off.... do NOT take your young son that far and have him pack elk especially if the 4+ miles is uphill. You'll jeopardize his interest in elk hunting. Instead take your wife so that she doesn't always think you're out there having a blast and will be more cooperative when you leave to go hunting. Be sure to strap an unboned hind quarter to her back and have her start at 4:30 a.m. hee hee

But seriously... I can completely relate to yearning to kill your first elk. My first bull was 13 miles in... but the packout wa downhill and on an old mining claim road. Nevertheless it was something I'll never forget. I'd go to the ends of the earth to kill a bull, especially if the season was coming to an end but of course... I'd have help getting it out. Even if I didn't that wouldn't stop me.

A few factors to consider... is it early or late in the season. If it's early then no reason to feel pressure to kill a cow since you said finding them isn't super difficult. Don't tempt yourself by hunting that far in.

Also... how many days into the hunt is it? You'll only make 1 trip per day so realistically you could need 3 more days to get it out assuming you packed one quarter out after the kill. Less if you bone it out but I prefer not to do that at just about all costs.

I'll be honest... I would never leave a guy or girl hanging so I'd have to help you. But I wouldn't be overjoyed because it is sacrificing my time. On the bright side they should consider the fact that if cows are plentiful closer to the road where bulls aren't... they would be in better bull country 4 miles in so they would be hunting... sorta. I might make you carry my gun lol! Then I'd really try to kill my bull for payback!!!

Last factor: Gun or bow? Any elk with a bow is a trophy and I realize every first elk is too but man alive... I have faith in you Lark, you can kill a cow with a gun half that or less from the road buddy.

Why don't you fill a pack with 80 pounds of cement blocks and carry it 4 miles 4 times and get back to us.

[Indian Summer]

MT Longdraw... half an elk!!!

You may know where Robbins Gulch is. One time a buddy asked me to help pack a cow. it was only two miles and a nice slight downhill all the way out. So nice that I decided to pack 2 quarters at the same time. He begged me not to so I'd go with him on his 2nd trip but I saw no reason. I nearly died by the time I got to the truck. Both quarters were unboned and it was a good sized cow. But when I popped the straps on my pack I realized why... somehow instead of lashing on a hind and a front I had packed 2 hinds. Holy crap my back still hurts. But since you love pain next time I kill a bull in the Root I'll give you a ring!

[Trophyhill]

well I really don't understand why anyone in a hunting group wouldn't help a fellow hunter pack his/her elk out. and especially if they tried to make you feel bad if they "had" to help you pack out and sacrificing their hunts. those aren't very good hunting partners.

[Indian Summer]

well I really don't understand why anyone in a hunting group wouldn't help a fellow hunter pack his/her elk out. and especially if they tried to make you feel bad if they "had" to help you pack out and sacrificing their hunts. those aren't very good hunting partners.

I mostly agree Trophy but if you can imagine I've been places where 5 points were minimum. 32 miles in and not an easy step all the way! Riding horses and dragging mules that far is even a long hard day. We even passed a 5 point herd bull in there though I regret that now I'll admit. If you shot a cow back there you better start eating it!

I'll say this though.. if a hunting companion was a friend... not even a close one mind you, and he was looking for his first elk... I'd help pack it out from the gates of hell for him. I might discourage it well before the hunt like they have but if he knew me he'd know I'd be there for him. I'd hope for a steak dinner and a cold one afterwards though.

[bnsafe]

my hunting partner is a bull only guy an he has never killed an elk, but he has no problem with tag soup as he wants antlers on everything. im ok with that but Im a elk hunter an a cow is an elk. we have discussed it an he says he would stop hunting an help me pack an I have no doubt he would an never give it a second thought. but I refuse to let him in a spot we go. its a looonnngggg ways from the truck an I would not let him stop hunting or even get into that mess because I shot a cow. I might let him help me pack it to the bottom of the mnt which is about a half mile so I didn't have to climb so much tho, lol.

[elkmtngear]

If it were on the last day of your hunt...and that cow was the only animal taken, they just might reconsider.

In my camp, we share everything (workload and meat).

[>>>---WW---->]

Like Jeff said, everyone shares the work load. That includes everything from camp chores to packing meat out. Sore backs and dish pan hands never killed anyone. If your group isn't willing to share he load, find another bunch of guys. Doesn't sound like they are REAL friends in the first place!

If you are hunting hell holes way back in, it is a good idea to have a horse packer lined up. You'll be glad you did!

[cnelk]

This thread has got me to thinking about how many elk I have packed out [or helped pack out] over the past 20+ years.
Most for friends and myself, some for complete strangers.

That number is ~80 elk [+/- a few, as my memory isnt what it used to be]
Not one was whole.

Packing meat can be a real camaraderie builder. Even when its not your own.
It tests more than your back.

I believe EVERYONE should partake in packing an elk out [bull or cow] 4-5 miles.
When you do it once, you will say you wont do it again.
But you will. Guaranteed.

But as I mentioned earlier, my memory isnt what it used to be and I will still help someone get their elk out of those 'hell holes'
But it wont be at the pace I did it 20 years ago....

[pointysticks]

i once helped a guy pack out a deer. he was crushing under the ridiculous load. my pack was sadly empty..so i took some. we got to his truck and he shook my hand and have me the warmest thank you..

i laughed as he drove away. he didnt even offer me deer steak.

i dont mind helping strangers. i hope karma shows up and kisses me on the tip of the nose oneday and an elk walks by me. ahhhh...someday.

[Lark Bunting]

Thank you all for the replies! Indian Summer, my son will not join me on this particular trip. He gets the rest of September to hunt with me.

Also, I am only archery hunting big game at this point. I don't own a rifle yet and I want to upgrade bows before putting any money into rifles.

I have done something every day since the season ended to be better prepared for next September, even if it's just asking dumb questions online. I've read books from the library, researched bows, arrows, backpacking gear, upgrades for my truck to get further back, studied maps, etc. I am determined to be prepared next year.

I will think about what I will do if an opportunity presents itself. There are many variables to consider as mentioned above; what day of the hunt is it? Have we seen a number of elk or just a few...or none *gulp*
At this point I would seriously consider taking the first legal elk just to see the look on my family's face. (My son and daughter would be thrilled, my wife thinks I'm an idiot to be taking up another hobby...I'd love to show her I can learn how to hunt).

Thank you again for the replies, I really appreciate it!

[Swede]

Best wishes Lark Bunting. Getting a cow with a bow is great. Shooting that first elk is a significant achievement. Let us know how you do.

[ishy]

We've done that. Got two cows back in somewhere tough late season hunt. Then about a quarter mile into the pack out my buddy comes up with a bum knee! Oh well thats how it goes.