Different Areas/Bulls Same Results :(

[chiznitz]

Hello all,

This is my crews first year archery hunting elk. We've been through so much material on elk language, yet we still keep failing to respond or act correctly.

Typically we will bugle to locate the elk. We usually will get a reply very far off and hard to judge exactly how far, so we move in that direction and then give another bugle, the bull responds with bugle w/ chuckles. At this point we start cow calling with estruss buzz, we'll hear the bull a few more times but he's getting farther and farther away. This has played out for us on about 4 different bulls the exact same way.

What could we do different? I understand he's most likely taking his cows and getting away from us, but how are we suppose to know we are close without doing the 2nd locator? We are all having a blast hunting and hearing the elk but it's getting really frustrating that every single encounter we have plays out the same way.

Thanks in advance!

[Indian Summer]

I hear you on the "how do we know we are close without the 2nd locator" Are the bulls hot? Like... bugling every time you call. If so leave the caller behind... or have him/her walk even further away, and give the shooter LOTS of time to move in before calling again. The shooter needs to push his luck a bit it sounds like but after checking the wind get closer than you thought you could before the caller tries to get another response. I guess the key is to try to pinpoint where the bull is as best you can. I know it's hard from a distance but if you call from outside the zero tolerance zone it's really common for bulls to avoid a conflict by heading the other way.

If nothing else you'll learn a lot. You'll need to give plenty of time and be sneaky as a wolf using binos to peer ahead through the timber like a still hunter as you move ahead.

If you think they will move off no mater what for various reasons just locate and go into stealth mode. Split up and pick a place to meet. Both hunters go wide left & right of where you think the bull is & sneak right in knowing you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. If you don't see or hear him you'll likely be a lot closer when you meet up again so at that point try another call. How's that sound?

[Broken arrow]

Silence is golden sometimes. I did way more sneakin n peakin until I could see them. Or felt like I was on top of them. I am still a rookie in my book though. Just keep at it you just never know what the next day/ encounter will bring!

[BRazz]

I have also had bulls go the other way when trying to get a response. Indian Summer is right about the zero-tolerance zone. If outside that (maybe 75-100 yards?), it's unlikely that the bull I'm chasing does anything other than head the other way...

The really tricky part is when they bugle once, then shut down altogether. If anybody has ideas for how to locate them in those cases, I'd appreciate the input.

[chiznitz]

Hopefully we get another chance to give this a go around. The season is coming to an end this weekend and the frustration just keeps building. We've tried cow calls when in an area that obviously has elk, they just seem to shut up and not bother with us. Yesterday I bugled and had a response w/ chuckles and then he shut up, i tried to move to where I thought he was and cow call but still nothing happened.

It'd be nice to actually call an elk in my general direction rather than have them run me all over the mountain

[Waygoner]

This has been my experience in OTC units in Colorado too. I've been through that same scenario many times. Bulls that are cowed up would rather run than fight. My suggestion is to stop bugling if you get a response to your locator. Go in stealthy with cow calls and watch the wind.

[FreshPow]

Are folks switching up callers? I wonder if these bulls have maybe gotten a partial view or scent associated with a caller. Also, would we have better luck with little bull calls?

[chiznitz]

Yah...would having a less mature bull type bugle still lead to them taking away the cows or would they feel less threatened and stick around? I may sound like a super mature butt kickin bull

[cnelk]

If I hear a bugle, I'm not doing nothing but getting closer.
He will bugle again without being prompted.
I will then adjust my position again by closing the gap more.
Wind is always a concern.
Making a little noise (stepping on a stick) getting there doesn't concern me too much

Only, and I mean only, I know I can give up my position,then then I will call.

Too many times I see/hear guys trying to call elk where the elk have already been.
That is tough to do most times.

[Indian Summer]

Yah...would having a less mature bull type bugle still lead to them taking away the cows or would they feel less threatened and stick around? I may sound like a super mature butt kickin bull

If you think you can continue to call those elk... instead of just trying a different type of call using the same call, try switching calls altogether. I prefer diaphragm calls. My brother uses an external reed Abe & Sons. It sounds like a flute. Very very different call. We always go with the diaphragm but if we have had a bull respond and then shut up we give it awhile and then hit him with the other call and lots of times wham... an immediate response.

"Too many times I see/hear guys trying to call elk where the elk have already been.
That is tough to do most times." A statement worth it's weight in gold cnelk.

[chiznitz]

Thanks all, we'll give it a try tonight if we find a bull.

We have been practicing with mouth calls but neither of us have it down yet. I can make an EE-OO sound but it sounds more like a calf, haven't been able to get the right tone.

I've been using an Abe & Sons dominator bugle and the hoochie and baby hoochie. I have a cow girl call that my dad bought me a few years ago, it has a much higher pitch but I've been reading that they work fairly well, may try that tonight.

[klean1]

What is far off? Like, so distant you are not sure where? Or, this bull is 600 yards sitting on that bench on that ridge? . If I locator bugle and get a response in the morning at first light I will listen, and then try to significantly cut that distance down. I did this today and it resulted In a bull coming in to about 80 yards, he somehow winded me and busted out but If I bugled again at 300 yards he may or may not answer or turn and move away if he has cows. I knew pretty much where he was and I dropped into the canyon and cut the distance to 150-200 yards and then I let out one soft cow call and he ripped off a bugle and started his movements towards me

[chiznitz]

Not quite sure how far off. Far off enough that I heard the bugle but I'm not quite sure which ridge it is. Usually its narrowed down to two ridges/draws. I've tried the silent thing with just a mew here and there and have never gotten a response. I guess the ruts going a little better right now. Stuck at home today but tomorrow morning we know where there are at least 3 bulls that have been chatty in the evening. Hopefully we can get them to talk in the early AM or maybe even look for a hot cow aka me