Whats it Means

[Swede]

Here is a scenario I suppose all experienced elk hunters have seen at different times. You are hiking into an area you plan to hunt. As you walk along you begin to notice there is absolutely no fresh sign. You decide to continue on anyway even though you are somewhat discouraged. One mile turns into two. Still absolutely no fresh sign. In fact the few old tracks you find appear to be from last Spring. The droppings look prehistoric. There is not a rub tree anywhere. Bummer, then all of a sudden at about mile three you start to see it. There is fresh sign and soon you find it everywhere. Fresh tracks, somewhat recent tracks, fresh rub trees and recent, plus old rub trees. As you begin to investigate you notice that many of the rub trees are large, and so are the tracks. What does this change mean? It is early September at 2:00 PM. What do you do?

[WapitiTalk1]

Hey Swede.. I've experienced this phenomenon in the elk woods numerous times. Check the elevation when you hit the sign. That's the contour lines, elevation, the elk are "hanging" in. My pop taught me this years ago and again, I've experienced it quite a few times since. Continue to hunt that elevation in the area you're hunting and don't be afraid to branch out east/west/north/south and continue to try the same elevation. RJ

[elkohalic]

I have seen this too, many many times. I really don't understand it either. I have often wondered if the elk were grazing through an area and then you finally get closer to them and the sign is fresher. It really doesn't take sign very long to dry out and look very old, especially on a dry sunny hillside. I'm sure everybody has done the step on the dung test to see how squishy it is. I never test the stuff that's still steaming!!
I would love to hear some answers to your question.
I guess I would stop right there and call a few times, while waiting I would be looking at my topo map and try to figure out the next move.
And while I'm looking at my map I hear a twig snap and look up to see that I was once again caught off guard.

[ElkNut1]

I think the question is vague? Heck, that can mean that's where the elk are because of feed, water & cover, elk are not in every drainage, basin or meadow. If it's like Sept 1st or so you could be in a Staging area where bachelor groups are hanging out & living, they will generally be above the cow groups separated but in time as cows start showing signs of estrus they will make their way towards the cow groups. Are these areas above timberline or right at it?

I've seen Breeding Areas, show the same sign, but early Sept. both genders are not generally there yet!

Because of the track sizes I'd guess you are where the bulls are! The fresh & old rubs reflect a Staging area with years of use, fresh droppings indicate they are there or within earshot & you are near the bedding area. I'd leave them be & listen, meaning I would not just go busting through the area & blow them out of there especially with a bow in hand! 2pm is midday, set back listen & be patient, they will move to browse, water & even relocate their beds if the sun ends up close by as it rises & changes position. They may even bugle here & there giving away their position, now you may plan an ambush. Challenging them early season & no cows is not top of the list! Bugling on the hunters part can create curiosity as to who you are & could bring bulls your way in silent mode to check out the new comer! If I could get elevation on them to glass likely bedding spots with openings I'd consider that, if they are cowed up that changes things! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Swede]

I am sorry for the vagueness of the question, but that is how it is when I have come upon this situation. For further information I will add that nothing significant changed in the terrain, elevation or vegatation while I was hiking along. I know about how elevation can make a huge difference, and should have ruled that out in my opening question. That was a distinct possibility from what I wrote. Elknut may have hit close, but let me add that after I hit this sudden area of fresh sign, I hiked on and the sign continues, but is spread out with the tracks, droppings, and rubs more scattered. In the typical situation like this, nowhere in the close proximity is there a particularly good bedding area, but I get glimpses of edge of a large greener north facing timbered area about 1/3 mile away.

I will monitor this thread to see if there are more questions about what I observed, but I am going to leave this here for a little while to see if more ideas come in. I will give my answer soon.

[ElkNut1]

A 1/3 of a mile from bedding area is close! Oh, need for apology!! (grin) I look forward too Swede for more responses! I've seen areas as you mention tons of times & know it's an area that bulls frequent yearly. Many times they are deserted by mid Sept & on! Not sure if this is what you're looking for? (grin) Great question though, gets the mind to spinning!!!

ElkNut1

[N5J]

This happened to me this past week as I was scouting a new area. I noticed at 8000 to 9000ft elk sign was old. As I progress to 7500 ft (bam) there they were…fresh sign everywhere. The only difference I can see was that vegetation at 7500 ft was thicker than higher up. Everything else was the same as water and feed goes. I figure the late melt off had something to do with this, so the cow’s had the calves lower in thicker vegetation to protect them from predators was my guess.

N5J

James

[elkmtngear]

One thing I would do if it were early September and relatively warm, is search for wallows somewhere in the vicinity. As elknut mentioned, it could be a "bachelor pad", where velvet was being rubbed, and a wallow could be very productive early on.

Best of Luck,
Jeff

[stringunner]

transition area between bedding and feeding grounds? Or a local "hang out" spot of a resident herd?

[bowgy]

I'm curious to find out what it means Swede. When I see that type of sign to me it means the elk are somewhere else.

[welka]

Had a similar situation that we ran into after no sign for 2 days. We "thought" we hit the jackpot when we found a ton of fresh sign. However, after hunting the area the next two days with only one bull called in and looking at the area after the fact, it was apparent that the area we found was a "hidey hole" that the elk went to after opening weekend in early Sept. My guess is that hunters came in and pushed them up a little higher and they found their isolation spot. When we got their the second weekend after Labor Day, they were already onto their alternate bedding/feeding areas. Interested to hear what others think and what Swede reveals.

[Swede]

Ok. Here is what I have observed. It takes nothing away from what others have suggested. In fact several have apparently seen about the same thing and came to a similar conclusion. Where I hunt, I see this situation fairly frequently. It is found along a general travel route between feeding grounds (could be a ranch or an area reseeded with good forage after a burn) and a bedding area. The reason for the consistant high level of traffic in this particular area (spot) is because there is something along the general travel route that is drawing them. There is some object of their focus. When I see this I start looking for their water hole. It is close. When I find it there will be a tree stand there shortly. That water hole will usually be muddy and stinks from elk use. Even though the bulls and cows may not be traveling together, they both may be coming to that exact same spot. At other times, with some slight difference in the observable sign I know this is only a hang out area for a lone elk. This too is good, as an elk that hangs out in one particular area for an extended period of time is very killable. Just slip in, set up and wait.

[ElkNut1]

Hey Swede, thanks! You made it too simple, I was over thinking it!! (grin) I appreciate you throwing that mind jogger out there, very nice!! Stringunner was spot on, congrats! You still have me thrown on "all the tracks seemed big" statement? It was as if you were eluding to bulls? But it was a trail or direction that was habitually used by all elk. There are lots of these like trails that go up & down the mountain as well with over a 1000' elevation change with typical rubs, I think that's where you threw me when you mentioned that the sign was at the same basic elevation! I gotta watch you!! (big grin) Thanks!

ElkNut1

[>>>---WW---->]

Here is another angle to think about Swede. The dead give away was when you mentioned old rubs and new rubs in the same area. This sounds like an area that bulls use almost every year when they first start rubbing velvet. It could be a hot spot for late August or (very early) September. I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in it after that unless you happen to find cows as well in the area. But nothing is cut in stone when it comes to elk hunting.

Usually this type of rubbing activity where you see both old and new rubs is made early before the bigger bulls actually join up with the cows.

[Swede]

Yeas ago while working in the forest I started noticing some tree stands at water holes. I had heard they were reasonably effective for bow hunters, so I was interested, but they appeared random in placement at water holes. A few springs and water holes had stands, but not many. I could not see where one was any better than another. Now I know that is because some were set up in good locations and some were not. Back then I placed a stand in a tree where I had seen elk two or three weeks earlier. On opening morning I sat there for about an hour, but could not stand it any longer. I knew I was wasting my time as no elk had watered there since I had observed them milling around weeks before.
I hunted on the ground that weekend, and on Sunday afternoon I was walking into an area, when I observed a water hole not far away. I went over to check it out and my understanding of tree stand hunting took a quantum leap forward. I could not put my stand there that day, but got back with it the next Friday. On Saturday I killed a beautiful bull at that location. What I described in the opening post of this thread, is what I observed as I walked in that opening Sunday afternoon of the archery season. I have seen this situation play out many times since. My hope is that if another bow hunter sees a similar situation and wants to shoot an elk from a tree, they can experience what I did.