Public land preasure tactics

[ElkNut1]

Josh, I moved your Topic over here!

Public land preasure tactics

Unread postby Elktracker » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:33 pm
Well I think this has to do with Elk Country Education so here goes......


I know as well as most of the people that hunt public land know that there are ways around hunting in Elk country that sees lots of pressure. The obvious tips I would say are have more than one plan for any givin day in case someone is right in the area you plan to hunt.

How can we use other people to our advantage??? I would think depending on what type of Elk hunting you are doing it could be benificial. for instants if your rifle hunting you could use other people drive the Elk to you. If you are a bow hunter you could use others around you to locate Elk for you and then move in silent?

What are some tips you have for hunters in high pressure Elk country??

Josh

[Swede]

I have several tree stands. If the tooters are going crazy one day in my area, I sit quiet for awhile, but may leave and try another area. If I hunt on the ground I am very sparing with my calls. The elk are very used to hearing location bugles, Hoochie Mamas, Sleezy Cow calls, etc. I like to give off a single two note short bugle, move a few yards and wait especially mid day. I will go back if nothing appears and try a little raking and stomp around some, or go back and give off a longer two note "I'm lonesome" bugle, then set back up. I do not answer any calls when I do this.

[Elktracker]

Copy paul I wasnt sure what the Elk country education forum was for but I guess ill just wait and see. Is it meant for starting new topics about Elk country education? or is it just to read in?? Thanks

Josh

[POk3s]

The only time I use other people to my advantage while bowhunting is simply being friendly and asking where they are hunting or headed to hunt. I'm not too worried about the guys close to roads but once I get off the beaten path and see other hunters I'll simply stop and ask if it's not out of my way. Most people are reluctant to tell you where they're hunting unless you do it like I do and ask where they're headed so we don't bump into each other again. Becomes very easy at that point. Rifle hunting I'll sit at saddles, fingers of dark timber, and areas I know the elk will hole up in when they're pressured.

[BowElkDwn]

swede, what kind of country are you hunting. Sounds like there a lot of hunters around. Is there no way to get away from the pressure and find elk that don't hear human bugles all the time.

[Buckriser]

Just hike in further than them all. I would say that once you get a mile + from the road your away from 90% of all the other hunters.

[JohnFitzgerald]

+1 buckriser

Lots of hunting pressure usually means a lot of human bugling. When I can't get away from the pressure, I usually go silent and let others get the bulls taking. Know your hunting area and try to intercept a vocal bull. A lot of times another hunter is dog'in the heard calling every 2 minutes. Very easy to make a quick plan and intercept. Questions can arise about ethics on this style. Some congratulate you on great job and others are mad that you killed "their" bull.

[Swede]

Where I hunt has mostly been logged. Roads, including closed ones are close together. The land is very accessable. I hunt the Ranger District where I last worked. I could go other places, and am planning to next year, but I hunt where I do, because I know it well and it is where my hunting buds hunt. One thing that has exacerbated the crowding problem is ODF&W closing other units to cow hunting or making them draw only.

[Swede]

I just got to thinking that I should quantify what I am saying is high pressure. I am sure it is nothing near what the Whitetail hunters experience in the eastern U.S. on a regular basis. I hear or believe I hear other hunters every other day on average during the season while I am in my stand. The heaviest periods of traffic is on opening weekend, Labor day weekend and most of the last week. Use varies from season to season. Some stand locations are more susceptible than others to having hunters pass nearby, but all can have folks come close.

[ElkNut1]

We pretty much hunt Pressured elk the same as non pressured elk! We screw it all up, we're not partial!!! (grin) Seriously though, we really do hunt them the same way! We do our best to always hunt smart when sounds are used or are not needed to get into position or get elk to do the moving, all depends on the encounter! You must be versatile & willing to adjust at a moments notice! In many situations it's a specific sound used that gets it done, not just any elk sound!! Closeness & believable sounds is a huge factor at the right time! Bulls will bugle in pressured areas, so many feel they stop 100% but they do not, they will talk, biggest issue in high pressure areas is there are not a lot of elk, in good limited draw areas you have lots of bulls, this means lots of competition which equates into a lot more possible bugling! Few bulls, few bugles! Lots of bulls, lots of bugling! Of course they need a reason to bugle, if cows are not in or nearing estrus then bulls bugle little, the opposite is true when they are near that cycle! When they are not, hunters have to get creative not reckless & just bust through unknown or known bedding areas, your chances are not good when bulls are not in aggressive state of mind!

This doesn't mean you can not force them into action but it all has to be right!! Play on their curiosity at these times! Sit well used trails/water. Glass for elk & get a direction/pattern of their goings & comings! You don't want to just wander about in the wrong areas & bust them out.

When pressure hits, many times elk will move to where there's less pressure, guess what? They are still the same elk that were around the pressure, you still have to hunt them & call to them especially in the thicker country where glassing is at a minimum! If in deep enough you can get into a whole different herd or herds, that's a huge plus! If you're making mistakes when they were closer to the roads there's a good chance you'll make again when in deeper! No ones perfect & we all but elk accidentally! But fine tune your calling ability & save it for just the right moment! You can be effective in hunting & taking elk that hear lots of good calling & bogus calling, TIMING is everything! Most hunters want to setup prematurely & have the elk come great distances to them, in most cases big mistake!!! I will share a few actual hunts in high pressured areas & their outcome with actual happenings so you can see what worked for us, maybe there's something in them that will help you in this years elk hunts? Gotta run right now though! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Goneelkn]

Lots of hunting pressure usually means a lot of human bugling. When I can't get away from the pressure, I usually go silent and let others get the bulls taking. Know your hunting area and try to intercept a vocal bull. A lot of times another hunter is dog'in the heard calling every 2 minutes. Very easy to make a quick plan and intercept. Questions can arise about ethics on this style. Some congratulate you on great job and others are mad that you killed "their" bull.

All i can say is WOW. Ever heard of ethics, right and wrong, etc., etc.??? I know there are alot of variables in that situation, but wow.

[sockeye]

Lots of hunting pressure usually means a lot of human bugling. When I can't get away from the pressure, I usually go silent and let others get the bulls taking. Know your hunting area and try to intercept a vocal bull. A lot of times another hunter is dog'in the heard calling every 2 minutes. Very easy to make a quick plan and intercept. Questions can arise about ethics on this style. Some congratulate you on great job and others are mad that you killed "their" bull.

All i can say is WOW. Ever heard of ethics, right and wrong, etc., etc.??? I know there are alot of variables in that situation, but wow.

I have had this senario happen to me, It is all about how you take it. This was a fairly easily accessed area. I was calling a bull and he was comming towards me. I heard a sorry cow call 100-150 yards in front/right of me. The sorry cow call went silent and the bull moving towards me. I got a visual of the bull approx. 100 or so yards out within seconds the visual of the bull movement indicated someone obviously arrowed the bull. The other hunter wich I never saw intersepted "MY BULL" but, that is PUBLIC land hunting. I got up moved to another area of the forest and and decided from that point on not to hunt such easily accessible areas. It was a bummer and a nice 5x sattelite bull but, what do ya do.

[Goneelkn]

Like i said, there are endless variables to each situation, but to go in and deliberately go after a bull you know someone else is working, is just wrong in my opinion.

[sockeye]

Like i said, there are endless variables to each situation, but to go in and deliberately go after a bull you know someone else is working, is just wrong in my opinion.

Gonelkn I 100% agree, personally I would back out and the other hunter would even know I was around. That incident did leave a bitter taste in my mouth but, was not worth letting the other hunter know I exsisted, much less a confrontation ( I know my mouth sometime engages before my brain does) So i slipped back out quietly and never even let the other guy see where I was at. Now I try to go most hunters won't go whether it is Wilderness or that nasty Hell hole that most won't want to pack out of if they get something down.

[Elktracker]

I agree if someone has a bull coming into them dont run in and kill it out from under him. What I got from what John was if people are bugling all over and a bull sounds off then you now have that bulls location and in my eyes it would be ok to go after that bull wether you got it to sound off or one of the other ten guys in that givin area, a bull or animal being hunted doesnt have your name on it untill you have that tag on it.

Here in Oregon if you arrow a bull and it crosses my path with a arrow hanging out of it and I put a kill shot on it then that bull is mine, thats just the law weather the first arrow or arrows were fatal hits or not. I dont completely agree with this law but its the law. I also dont hunt areas with lots of pressure so allot of this I dont have to worry about but I started the thread to just see what other guys tactics are in these high pressure areas not to talk ethics of ones strategys that they decide to use, that is a different thread and the debate on ones ethics can go on and on and those threads usually dont end well as we all have different ethics and wont always agree on all of them.

Josh

[T/H]

How can we use other people to our advantage??? I would think depending on what type of Elk hunting you are doing it could be benificial. for instants if your rifle hunting you could use other people drive the Elk to you.

when i used to rifle hunt for mulies the pressure could get so bad that this is exactly a tactic i used for deer. i don't see why it wouldn't work on a rifle hunt for elk

[Elktracker]

Like i said, there are endless variables to each situation, but to go in and deliberately go after a bull you know someone else is working, is just wrong in my opinion.

Gonelkn I 100% agree, personally I would back out and the other hunter would even know I was around. That incident did leave a bitter taste in my mouth but, was not worth letting the other hunter know I exsisted, much less a confrontation ( I know my mouth sometime engages before my brain does) So i slipped back out quietly and never even let the other guy see where I was at. Now I try to go most hunters won't go whether it is Wilderness or that nasty Hell hole that most won't want to pack out of if they get something down.

sockey that would definately upset me, have you ever wondered if the other hunter may have just thought he was hearing 2 bulls moving closer together so he got between the two and just waited for one of them to come pass him? Who knows maybe if you would have said something to him he would have appolagized and made it right?

Josh

[eltaco]

I agree with Paul, I use precisely the same tactics when the elk are pressured or not pressured... I'd always prefer to hunt the non pressured elk, but I don't hardly ever get exactly what I want on public ground. I do my very beat to hunt earlier and stay out later than anyone in my area, and do my beat in the offseason to make sure my calling sounds more realistic, too. If I'm going to have to compete with others, the only thing I can control for sure is the amount of time and effort I put into it.

I have had other hunters knowingly work in on a bull that we were calling back and forth with. In fact, they told me that they saw us from the cliff above and decided to work in in front of us ... they told me this once they found us, as I was pulling the first quarter off of my bull neither of these guys were carrying a call, and they said it wasn't worth calling to bulls opening week with so much pressure. Man, couldn't help but smile and nod while I was cleaning up

I won't work in on any bull that I know is coming into another hunter's calls, but I'll never expect the same from the guys I'm competing with. That said, if a bull is being called to and splits off, I won't hesitate to follow the bull and work him seperately.

Giving up on your most successful tactics just because there are other hunters in the area is fundamentally flawed, IMO! Do what you can to be in the right spot before others, and know how to communicate with the elk and I do believe you stand a better chance of success than the competition.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Lots of hunting pressure usually means a lot of human bugling. When I can't get away from the pressure, I usually go silent and let others get the bulls taking. Know your hunting area and try to intercept a vocal bull. A lot of times another hunter is dog'in the heard calling every 2 minutes. Very easy to make a quick plan and intercept. Questions can arise about ethics on this style. Some congratulate you on great job and others are mad that you killed "their" bull.

All i can say is WOW. Ever heard of ethics, right and wrong, etc., etc.??? I know there are alot of variables in that situation, but wow.

+1 Elktracker

Please don't get me wrong, if someone is successfully working a bull, I never intervene. What I'm talking about are those situations where you are close enough to a bugling bull and he's being pushed by another hunter. Understanding the area you hunt is also important. We have a lot of hunters that like to chase bulls only a short distance before the terrain forces them to turn around. If the hunter has no real chance of killing the bull, is it unethical to put yourself into a spot that might give you a shot? A lot of rifle hunters put themselves on "stands" in hopes that someone else pushes out an animal. Unethical? What I say to myself when presented with this type of situation is does this hunter have a chance at this bull! If the answer is yes, I always back out.

Just my 2-cents.

p.s. Ethical questions plague my mind all season. That's why I choose to go the extra 2 miles to get ride of most pressure. I never get in between a bugling bull and another hunter. To dangerous in my book.

[Goneelkn]

Please don't get me wrong, if someone is successfully working a bull, I never intervene. What I'm talking about are those situations where you are close enough to a bugling bull and he's being pushed by another hunter. Understanding the area you hunt is also important. We have a lot of hunters that like to chase bulls only a short distance before the terrain forces them to turn around. If the hunter has no real chance of killing the bull, is it unethical to put yourself into a spot that might give you a shot? A lot of rifle hunters put themselves on "stands" in hopes that someone else pushes out an animal. Unethical? What I say to myself when presented with this type of situation is does this hunter have a chance at this bull! If the answer is yes, I always back out.

Just my 2-cents.

p.s. Ethical questions plague my mind all season. That's why I choose to go the extra 2 miles to get ride of most pressure. I never get in between a bugling bull and another hunter. To dangerous in my book.

Your first line says it all, that's where my concern was. Like i said there are endless variables to every situation.

[ElkNut1]

Guys, this can be a touchy subject, we can all have our opinions on the matter & define "ethical" on different levels, let's not force our thoughts or beliefs onto others, if it's legal then it doesn't give any of us the right to display our feelings or code of ethics on others. There are many things in life this can apply too so remember we all will look at certain things differently. Let's stick to our own codes & standards & we'll have peace within ourselves, that's what counts!

I do understand both sides to these issues, no one likes having elk taken right out from under them but that is public land hunting. I've had it done to myself as well & I just moved on!

Hunting Pressured Land & Bulls/Elk still requires the same skills as less hunted areas! We've taken bulls within 1/2 mile of dirt roads on many occasions with lots of pressure. Why was it we took these elk & others did not? In many cases it's because hunters want elk to do all the work & come to them! Other times hunters call their way all the way to the bull, at least they try too! Sometimes elk will cooperate & come 100's of yards to the caller, in most cases they do not! So, it's the "most cases" that ones have to figure out & deal with! Your odds will rise incredibly when you are the aggressor & you can put the bull on the defense! Calling these more pressured elk or any elk requires Timing sounds when sounds are the need! There are times when you call, call, call & elk come trotting over to you, when they do, what a bonus! (grin) But when they stay put or get to a hangup spot that's where the hunter shows his true colors! (grin) First, avoid hangups best you can through better "setups" -- 2nd, corral all calling until the need arises & you are on top of them! What calls that may be needed is dependent on the encounter! Get in tight, be aggressive when needed & use sounds that are not so generic. There is no one technique that applies to all bulls or encounters!

ElkNut1

[elkohalic]

A few years back [about 5 I believe] I spotted a herd of 13 cows and a bull from the highway. They were in a park just before dark and just below timberline. I sat there planning my next mornings hunt,[ I had hunted the area for several years so I kinda knew the territory]. While I sat there glassing them from approximately 2 miles away, another truck pulled up behind me and yup you guessed it !! They spotted them also.
I decided to sleep in the truck that night at the base of that draw, I remember leaving the truck pretty early, not sure what time, but it took FOREVER to get to that park.
When I got there the sun was already lighting things up, and within 5 minutes of being there I spotted a group of cows 100 or so yards, moving across the park away from me. Then I heard a bugle about 200 yds below me. All the cows picked their heads up and looked strait down to where I had just been threw. So I let out a cow call, And somehow one of those cows grew antlers very quickly and was on a fast walk right at me. He stopped about 60 yards and turned back and looked at his cows and then looked down the mountain towards the bugle. I pointed the old squeeze me cow call to a small draw just to the right of me. The bull ran to the edge of the draw, stopped and stared into it long enough for me to slip an arrow through him at 30 yards.
As I sat and waited my grueling 10 minutes to go look for my arrow [the arrow only, I'm not tracking yet] I herd the bugle again this time a little closer, he sounded pretty big so I wanted to at least see him. So I crawled down to a good spot and 15 minutes of bugling later I see the same 2 hunters that had pulled in behind me the evening before.
I walked down to meet them and tell them I had just shot a bull up at the other end of the park. They gave me the congrats and turned around and back down the mountain they went. As they walked away I heard them one of them say " I told you we should have gotten up earlier' . I'm pretty sure I grinned from ear to ear.

Moral of the story: When hunting areas with camo behind every tree, Don't advertise the elk you have spotted from the highway, Go after them with all you know and DON'T MISS !!

[JohnFitzgerald]

Great story! Makes me want to get up a little earlier than normal.

[Swede]

Elkaholic's story reminds me of one of my own. Mind you I have had several encounters with other hunters cutting in over the years, but some how this hunt turned out great for me.

It was opening day of the October 1975 rifle season. Dad and I went out to an area we thought should be good. We had scouted through there the day before and saw some good sign. As we started down the road we intended to hike in from, we saw hunters posted all along it. There were about ten of them spaced about 200 yards apart. We realized they were on the receiving end of a big drive, so we decided to go and pick up his pickup miles away and hunt another area we had scouted previously. Our intent was to leave his pickup on a low road and drive around to a higher one and drop down to it.
It was a little late when we started walking into the timber after launching out on our second try, but we soon saw elk milling around in the timber below. We just could not see any antlers. I suggested to dad that he wait there, and I would drop down in an adjacent draw and work my way back up to him. That way we would have them between us. Well I moved into position and headed up to where the elk had been. As soon as I arrived where they had been I saw dad standing there. I asked him what happened and he said about the time I hit the draw the elk spooked out of there. I did not understand. The wind was totally in my favor and the woods was wet. We were experiencing a steady rain. I was baffled as to what was going on. Why did the elk take off. Well dad and I decided to continue our hunt and continue on down the ridge until we met at the road. I still wanted to see what had happened. As dad walked around a Rhodendron patch on one side, I went down the ridge on the other. I had only gone a few feet when I saw another hunter. He asked me if I had seen the elk. I said I had, but I could not put antlers on any. I asked if he had seen them. He said he did and said two bulls headed out of there and he pointed towards the northeast. He asked me where I was headed, so I told him that dad and I were heading down to the road below which was in the opposite direction from where the bulls had gone according to him.
As soon as I told him I was heading down the ridge, he turned around and headed in the exact direction I told him dad and I were going. I soon realized He was going the way I intended whether I liked it or not, so I went back to where I had first seen the elk. From there I coincidently went in the direction this interfering hunter had said the bull went. As soon as I got over to the adjacent ridge, I saw something. I wasn't sure at first, but when it lifted it's head I knew it was a rather decent 4X4 bull. I shot it and shortly thereafter I cut off its head and headed down to the road below.
As soon as I hit the road I saw someone's pickup that had a woman sitting in it. She got out and admired my bull. She identified herself as the wife of the power company employee who lived nearby. I described the hunter I had seen and asked if that was her husband. She said it was. So I told her to be sure and thank him for me. I said, if he had not told me where the bulls were I would never have gotten him. She looked more than a little perplexed as I took off to find dad.
The hunter thought he was throwing me off coarse on the elk, and I knew that was his intent, but the elk had doubled back and was heading up the mountain just as I came across and intercepted him.
At work the following Monday I was relating the story to a couple fellow elk hunting workers, when the one said he had shot his bull the year before right from under the same hunter. He said He was on one side of a brush patch thinking he was all alone. As soon as he shot his bull, he heard a scream from a startled hunter that was just getting ready to shoot from a few yards away. I was more than a little pleased with that news, even though I could feel a little sorry for the disappointed one.
Like I said in the beginning usually other non party hunters just mess things up. Usually, but not always.

[Lefty]

I hunt big open country, few elk and few hunters, but certainly no lack of archery elk presure on those elk. Maybe less than 100 animals, a group of 6 out of staters, a group of three, a father son team and me.
The group of 6 seem like good hunters, however the days they are hunting the area they tend to show up less than an hour before sunrise,.. if They pull into a great glassing area with their pickups; If the elk are close to them when they move in I head a couple miles away. the elk seem do the same because of their activity. They should know I exist (see my truck or camp) but I dont think they have ever seen me
The early season bedding area is hunted, I dont hunt it after the end of the 2nd week. I think Im the only one who knows where the elk secoundary bedding area is located. So in a sence the presure move the elk to where I can hunt them uninterupted

The father son team,...very good hunters They waited and watched me do my thing. I have done the same for them. in a sence we have worked with each other. They have watched me and parralled me more as obsevers from a distance, I have done the same with them, then share what went wrong or right

The group of three are morons, after our last "meeting" I havent seen them. they used ATV's and drove off trails to ralley/harass the elk then follow them. after blowing a very good oppurtunity for me
From what Ive heard, If they see my camp or vehicle the leave the area

[mattstanton]

I feel that when elk are pressured you have 2 options. Either be more prepared, skilled and educated than the next guy or go deeper than everyone else to get to the unpressured elk. I try and educate myself on elk talk and behavior all year. Along with this I call a lot. I will record myself and tweek my calling routines untill they are as realistic as pollible. I will say with great respect that Pauls cd's and the phone calls I have made to him have aided in this education process greatly. I also like to get away from the "yodelers". If I hear an open reed primos bugle, I get the hell out of there. I like to find roads that are gated off. After about the first mile, the human tracks stop. Then i go another mile and let the games begin.

[mongopino915]

I would love to hunt on ranched properties but like most folks on here, it was and will always be on pressured public land.

The most important piece of the puzzle is that there has to be elk there.

Yes, elk can get call shy and learn to shut up but elk will always be elk. They are social and curious animals and that will always be their weakness.

Paul already discuss these tactics to death but I will repeat and add my 2 cents. I will do whatever it takes, whether it be a ninja stalk, pretending to be a whole herd waking up the mountain, aggressive calling, one soft cow mew, two/three bulls challenging each others, and everything else in between. I also use of calls that are not frequently used by most average Joes. Be versatile but selective in your calling.

For the elk, it is all about associating sounds with human danger, and as hunters, you must learn to recognize and avoid those danger sounds and be unique to give you an edge. If I can tell the fake calls, so can the elk.

Do you really think that when a real bull bugles all the other elk within hearing distance take off to the next county? Maybe the one that just got shot at but most elk would just go about their own business. Sometimes, even elk don't respond to elk and has nothing to do with you being detected for a fake. This is where you have to be creative, to make elk respond either vocally or silently, to make things happen.

With that said, I hunt the same way whether I am next to road or 10 miles into the wood, with or without other hunters around.

[easeup]

this thread about crowded conditions reminded me of a rifle muley hunt I was on about 25 yrs ago in CO natl forest lands. I had stalked a little buck and had managed to get just about 100 yds away and settled down with a rest, dropped off the safety, and let out a little air and was slowly squeezing the trigger when the roar of a rifle from somewhere else put that buck rolling end over end down a very steep slope. I just put it back on safety and walked off. there is no ethics issue here, it was open range and open season.

none of us ever want those type of things to happen, but infrequently they do...I suggest we congratulate the hunter and just move on.

[easeup]

one tactic that we can use is to avoid areas that are open to ATVs. not stepping on any toes here but it is just kind of a universal truth there are fewer hunters where there are fewer open roads.

[ElkNut1]

Hunting pressured areas means there's hunting pressure from other hunters! Most hunters (not all) do not negotiate any tougher country than they have too! Best thing to do is plan on putting some distance between nearest roads & majority of hunters! Some areas it may be hunting areas everyone drives right by, in other areas you may need to get over some steep rough country to get completely away from other hunters, this can put you into less harassed elk! This photo shows a mtn that if hunters will get on the other side of they could without a doubt get into more prime elk country! There is no road or trail over it & that's they type of country we generally will look for in these heavy hunted areas! Rarely do we see other hunters willing to put the miles on to do so! This mtn is aprox a 1000' higher or a bit more in elevation & just rough enough to keep guys from wanting to climb up & over it! Get over it & that's when your hunting begins!

ElkNut1

[alan_gruver]

Hmm, I am guilty of driving past that spot. Possibly that exact spot Paul!!!

LOL