The Good and the Bad

[cnelk]

We have discussed many Good things that we need to do to prepare, be successful, importance, etc...

There are things that need to be done but we really don't like or are the most difficult.

What are the Bad things?

What would you 'warn' a newbie about that may not necessarily be known?

[cnelk]

To me, it would be exhaustion.

You can't prepare enough for what it takes to hunt elk hard for a week or 10 days.
By the 5th day, your body is cursing you.
Your mind is wanting rest.

The early rise and long pre-dawn hikes become grueling.

This is when you begin to stumble or maybe not step over that log quit high enough.
Down you go...

This is one of those Bad things to me

Take some time to rest.

[GetemDuck]

I would warn newbies about preparation Keep enough in your day pack to get you through a night on the mountain. Things came happen at last light you can get that trophy bull down, you can get turned around, you can get injured. All things that will keep you from getting back to camp. I always carry emergency supplies just in case. water, food and a fire starter would be at the top of the list of what you will need.

[Indian Summer]

CnElk makes a huge and very important point. I bet it's hard for someone who hasn't been there to imagine taking a long break.... taking 5 or 10 steps, and needing another one.

I used to do a seminar at a a guide school I called Reality 101. It was where we told the young guys that this wasn't just a fun alternative to working at Wal Mart. I always started with: "If you haven't given birth to a baby or been to a military boot camp you have no idea what it means to be pushed to your limits" At the end I'd say "I'm looking for 2 good guys, who is actually looking for a job" 3 out of 12 might raise their hands.

Keep in mind not everyone has to beat themselves up the way some of us do. I woudn't want anyone to be intimidated and there's no reason to be. For the most part any level of abuse is self inflicted from a labor of love. I have days where I plan a walk in the park too. But there could come a day where a bugling bull leads you somewhere that you might not normally go. Perhaps late in the day too. Maybe you'll get turned around for a little when you didn't have much energy to spare in the first place..... in the rain. (I hate rain)

Be prepared and pace yourself. Have a reasonable plan everywhere you go ... with a plan to cut it short if you run out of time or get sidetracked. Laugh but me and several others I know keep a 5 Hour Energy in our pack in case of emergency only which means you look at your boot and it refuses to take another step! The days you ask yourself... is it me or did someone just turn the gravity way up?

Cnelk... you been there?

[Lefty]

While my family has participated in many parts of my hunts, ATV riding, scouting and camping trips, shooting our bows in the yard and eating elk.

The two major things.
Archery elk hunting currently gas is an expense, last fall $ 70-120 each of the five trips out.
The other is time away from home scouting and hunting is time away from my wife and kids

[>>>---WW---->]

Buying the very best, hi priced/hi tec equipment available just because some well known celebrity uses it on TV won't make you a better hunter. In reality, most of these guys are no more than product pimps trying to make money for their sponcers.

[WapitiTalk1]

cnelk mentioned exhaustion/potential injury; a very real concern and a solid point! I'll offer a couple more.

1. It's very, very hard to put an arrow into an elk, even in a very good area containing good populations and/or vocal bulls. If you look at the harvest statistics for a given state/area for example, 10, 12, 14% etc.. It is normally the same seasoned hunters knocking down the 10, 12, 14% of the elk each year. And no, it's not easy for the seasoned hunters either. Find a mentor....latch on to a seasoned hunter for your first few times out, or, perhaps learn the ropes from an experienced guide. I don't know how full Indian Summer's outfit is for this fall but I'm sure a trip out with him (or someone he recommends) for your first elk hunt would push your learning curve way down.

2. Good hunting parters are hard to find.. period.

3. Meat spoils very quickly if not taken care of properly, and, gotten to a cooler as soon as possible. Gutless method works great; get meat to shade; then get it out quick.

4. Packing an elk out on uneven terrain is much harder than one would imagine. Get in shape for your season with weight on your back, working out with lots of elevation change (both up and down) if possible.

5. Thinks look very different in the high country after it gets dark. A "pretty good" pack trail on the way in doesn't look the same at all on the way out after dark. Some strategic trail marks on the way in can save your bacon on the way out. This can be as simple as scratching a few horizontal lines in the trail with your heel at certain points which will help you know you're on the right track on the trip back to camp. Very seldom is a straight line course back to camp the best method believe me, I know.. It can take hours to go through a few hundred yards of ID or MT alder.

[msd1228]

Phantom hit a lot of the points I would have mentioned, especially with regards to getting the meat cooled quickly. I remember the first elk I ever shot with my bow - it was about 5km back to my truck and I had a first time hunter along with me. I had never had to backpack meat out in my life, but I did know the gutless method. I shot my elk right at the end of legal light and worked into the night to get it quartered and into game bags. The problem came when it was time to leave - thats when we clued in that not only did my partner not have a pack at all, but I may as well of not had one because it was useless for packing quarters. Needless to say, packing out an entire elk that is strung to a long, heavy branch (think of a cross beam that you would hang your quarters from) for 5km for 3 trips in the middle of the night makes for one of the most miserable experiences you can imagine. Even at 23, my shoulders were absolutely obliterated for a few weeks. Never made that mistake again.

One mistake that I used to make very early on, and its still really hard not to do, is to keep from calling as soon as you hear a bugle close by. There is really no reason to drop everything and start calling the moment you hear a bugle - rather than making a bunch of noise and giving your position away from 200 yards, stay quiet and work in closer to the bull before setting up. Don't start calling until you are in a position to maximize the likelihood that he will come in for you.

[cnelk]

Oh yeah. i been there.

You can't imagine having a quarter on your back,being above timberline and having to go up AND over the continental divide at 11,000ft.

You can only take 5-6 steps before your lungs BEG for more air.
Your legs are jelly.

Then once you crest the pass, you quickly find out how much your toes will curl in your boots as you carefully step downhill.
I swear I had an inch of space in the back of my heel it was so steep.

I experienced this in 1997 when my buddy shot a 5x5 on the other side of the divide.
It was only 200yds down to the elk, and back but it took us HOURS to get that elk up and over that pass.

[Swede]

I probably am like a broken record on this in more ways that one. Like others have said above and I have pointed out on different threads, the biggest reason for failure I see is unrealistic expectations. Unless you go on a high fence ranch hunt, killing an elk is not easy. This is especially true on public land, OTC units. As Phantom16 noted, elk hunting success is usually under 15%. The ones who are getting elk year after year are those same hunters who are prepared and willing to give it everything they have to succeed. Good elk hunters are confident, but never cocky. They know what it takes to make it happen. They have been there and done that. They have the patience to wait days and even weeks for just the right moment to spring into action. They will not force the issue at the wrong time. They have the endurance to last the whole hunt without being demoralized. It is interesting too, that they are a lot of fun to hang out with in camp. They laugh about how beat they are or how far they are going, but there is never any doubt about what they will be doing before first light. These hunters miss their wife and kids, and even the comfort of their home, but the sound of a distant bugle, or the trail into a distant water hole draws them like a magnet. Failure is not an option, and it is fought against until the last hour of the last day of the hunt.
Successful elk hunting is a joyous exercise in patience and perseverance, cast in some of the most glorious, but contrary country God created.

[easeup]

oh such a collection of wisdom in the posts above me.!

here is another sour pill.....
guys...put a little more thought into who is in your camp.
over a week or more in the mountains, it is not if something goes wrong but when it does, and then the next bad thing and then more bad luck.
you will very quickly find out what your camp friends are made of or in most cases; not made of.
if you have a complainer or a lazy friend around, they can/and will infect the whole show with the sour attitude.
they will effect others and you, and surely impact the outcome of the trip to the point there will be no laughs nor smiles.

A true elk hunter and a real friend is a very rare find.

[mtnmutt]

People spend a lot of time educating themselves about hunting elk, but the related education is overlooked because its boring to them.

Take a Wilderness First Aid Course.

I took the NOLS version which some say is better than the American Red Cross version.

Carry a first aid kit that you know how to use. No use packing things you don't know how to use.

Carry trekking poles even if you don't use them. They will help you if you ruin your feet which I did for the first time in late season last year or if you injury your ankle. They will also help with pack out. I started using them last year. Sometimes, they stay strapped to my pack and are only used when heading back to the trail head.

Read about attitude sickness and practice with map and compass at home before heading into the mountains.

The Rocky Mountains catch flatlanders and even seasoned mountain hikers off guard every year. Your pride and ego is something that can get into trouble in the mountains. It can also help get you out of trouble too. When confused and tired in the mountains, learn to sit down, don't keep moving. It took me a long time to figure this out. I was hardheaded and kept going rather than stop and figure out really where I was and take the time to rehydrate and eat a snack.

Last year, 2 hunters I found on the road did not know where they where or which direction to their camp. I asked them for a description of their camp location and then gave them a ride to their camp. Because I knew the road and all the turns in it, I was able to know which direction their camp was located.

[cnelk]

Yes Indian Summer, I don't like rain either...

That is something else that is bad.

Most people don't realize how COLD mounting rains are!
Usually sleet/hail accompanies the rain.

Hypothermia can set it if you are not prepared....

[welka]

A wise guide told a couple of us flatlanders a long time ago that "you can't get into shape for the mountains unless you train on the mountains" or hills or whatever natural elevation you can find to climb and side hill. A real killer can be swollen knees early on in a hunt because you do not walk hills and especially walk DOWN hills as part of your main training. Most exercise equipment, running, etc gets you well prepared for up hill, but few get the muscles on the top and around your knee cap ready for the downhill part of elk hunting. Great list of "bad mistakes" by all.

[msd1228]

I agree with welka 1000% about the DOWNHILL portion of the hike - I would venture to say that it is actually the hardest part of the whole walk on the knees and especially the feet. Last year while doing some preseason scouting for elk my partner and I climbed into some nasty, nasty steep country in the infamous Canmore sheep bowzone (there's some big bulls up in them hills!) and while the hike in was hard on the lungs and the quads, the trip down absolutely annihilated my feet. What was a pretty decent hike going in turned into the single most painful hike of my life on the way out as my baby smooth feet turned into 1 literal, gigantic blister from toe to heel. I honestly couldn't walk more than baby steps at a time. This occurred from going down an incredibly steep grade and picking up more speed than I could handle - when it came time to try to slow down my feet slid forward in my boots so hard that it generated an ungodly amount of heat, and it was like the entire skin section of the bottom of my feet melted from the meat part and slid back to my heal. It was utterly disgusting, to say the least.

[buglmin]

Calling...In todays world, what worked 10-15 years ago aint going to work now. By the third week of elk season here in sw Colorado, the elk have heard every cowcall there is on todays market. And by now, I bet they know the difference between a Hoochie Momma and a Hyper Hot...We hear guys all the time, screaming and screaming and screaming over and over again, then start cow calling, trying to sound like a huge herd of cows...or bugling from huge meadows or sage flats at 1:00 in the afternoon. Elk dont do that, especially after they've been hunted for a week or two. You have to be an elk, be were elk would make sounds and noises at 11:00 or 1:00, and know what sounds they would be making. I, personally, have never heard cows call over and over and over again, unless she is stressed out, and if she is stressed, then other elk become nervous cause something is upsetting her...learn to call, where to call, when to call, and what to say when you do call. Just cause you have a call doesnt mean you have to blow it every two minutes.

[Jaquomo]

Following up too soon on what is supposedly a "perfect, double lung" hit.

How many times have we heard, "I hit him perfectly, right behind the shoulder, only a few drops of blood, and we never found him."

[Magic]

A recipe for personal physical failure is not drinking enough fluids. Dehydration can lead to altitude sickness as well as having the potential to be life threatening.

"Camel up" in the mornings before leaving camp. OK, you will have to pee more often, but your body is fully hydrated and the benefits will continue throughout the day.

[mongopino915]

Lack of patient.

[BowKill]

Elk hunting for me is an emotional roller coaster at times. Sometimes you will have close calls for days upon days or go days without seeing or hearing elk. I hunted in a premier unit in New Mexico in 2008. I was close to bulls for 6 days without ever drawing my bow. It was a roller coaster of emotions all week, by the 6th afternoon I was mentally and physically beat and ready to call it along with my brother. On the way back to camp a bull rang out above us, I told my brother that I had to try. He shook his head at me and wished me good luck as he walked off for camp. Within 10 minutes I was standing over the top of my biggest bull at that time.

The mental games that your mind will play on you will be the hardest part of your hunt. Be prepared for it by having all of the loose ends tied up at home before you leave. Be conditioned like mentioned above for uphill and downhill mountain traversing. I second the fact that downhill packing is a killer. Like Cnelk said your toes are going to curl.

After killing that bull we got super charged again. My buddy shot a good bull the next morning, and my brother killed his the following day. Stay Positive!

[wideangle]

Getting ready, travel to hunting area and actually hunting takes up quite a bit of time - time away from family and work.
It is expensive - equipment, tags, gas etc. Just ask the equipment junkies!
It can be physically demanding - for example; hunting in wilderness areas.

[mtnmutt]

The "downhill" conditioning and choosing correct footwear hit home for me this past season.

I have hiked CO mountains for 22 years. Last September 3rd hunting weekend, I did a day hunting/scout trip trip of hiking 4 miles in and back. I messed up one foot. I used the same footwear I used all summer, so I was surprised. I must have not heel locked when lacing.

4th weekend and final long weekend, I backpacked into same area 5 miles in. My foot had not healed from the previous weekend. I over did it. I could not even last for the final day of hunting. Both feet were a mess. It was the first time I missed the last day of hunting.

One small mistake of not lacing your footwear correctly can cost you big.

In 22 years, I have never ruined my feet until last September.

This summer, I will try a silk liner to see if I can save myself if I fail to heel lock when lacing.

Footwear tip: check your foot size each year and try on your footwear at the end of the day when your feet are their largest. I have gone up a half size the last 2 years. At the end of a hiking day, my feet are a quarter to half size larger.

[elkmtngear]

Desperation, exhaustion, depression, hopelessness

If you have a short attention span, you may suffer from any, or all of the above. As others have mentioned, keeping positive is most important, and
if there is one single key to success, I would say it is "perseverance" . NEVER give up!

[welka]

For you 76er fans, here's one that is not always a fun one top prepare for.... "practice, you talkin' about practice, practice?" Its so easy to fall into a mode where you think your ready to kill an elk. Its also easy to just shoot from a standing position or a couple of extra positions while practicing and calling it a day. But killing an elk is rarely a practice-like shot position. Practice as you normally would, then add a couple of these every few shoots:
1) Draw, hold for a minute, let down (like a bull left quickly), cow call and re-draw and shoot within 3 seconds.
2) Draw, hold and have a buddy scream behind you and shoot within 2 seconds (mimicks something going wrong quickly).
3) Draw, hold for 3 minutes to mimick a bull staring at you dead on, shoot at the end of 3 mins and hit a 3" circle from less than 7 yards.
4) Same as (3), but after 3 mins, let down, re draw and shoot within 3 seconds at a 30 yard distance - good luck.
5) Go to a farm and get close to cows and horses and visualize shooting one of them. The size of an elk can freak you out if you don't realize the size and the large area you have to shoot at.
6) Run sprints or a 440 and then shoot 3 arrows to make sure you can hit the bullseye 3 times in a row.
7) Never end on 6 and you should get the point by now and can come up with other ideas to prepare.

Good luck and shoot straight!

[Indian Summer]

Practice waking up from a nap with a bull stomping by, nocking an arrow, and shooting while half asleep? Hee hee, couldn't resist. Has to be a lesson in there somewhere. Maybe sleep with an arrow nocked? You can practice that at home Welka.