Guided Elk Hunt Questions?

[ElkNut1]

Not everyone has the capacity to do DIY Elk Hunts. When this occurs & hunters are seeking out a guide but do not know where to go or who to consider what are questions they should ask potential guides as they root through the hundreds that offer this service? I have a fairly long list myself I would ask these days, but I've never been on a guided hunt. This info could help lots of hunters avoid some unforeseen pitfalls. Thanks everyone!

ElkNut1

[Goat Boy]

Process for choosing an outfitter

Questions you need to ask yourself:

Ask yourself what experience you are looking for.
What species? (Elk, Deer, Bear, Moose.....)
Location? (Wilderness, private land, public land?)
Fully guided vs. drop camp
Ratio of hunter to guide
Time of year?
Horseback, Truck, ATV or foot only
How soon (number of years) do you want to go on the hunt
What kind of accommodations do you need? (Resort, cabins, wall tents, backpacking tents?)
Research:

Research states that offer experiences that fit your criteria (online) Link to all State Fish and Wildlife departments
Look up online the guides and outfitters for those states. It pays to deal with outfitters that belong to the state association. (Example: search the phrase “Utah guides and outfitters association) Link to a partical list of Associations
Many of the state websites are divided by regions or units with the guides/outfitters licensed for each area and what they offer
Numerous outfitters have websites that you can look at to see if what you are looking for is offered
Create a list of potential Outfitters
Depending on your time frame, a good next step is to send out “inquiry letters”. Start with some of your main questions to weed out the Outfitters that don’t fit your needs and ask for a brochure. (See sample letter below) Ask the rest of the question in a phone conversation directly with the Outfitter.
Outfitter questions:

How long has he/she been in business? Good hunting guides stay in business; poor guides eventually are forced out. You can get some deals with newer inexperienced guides, and you can have a wonderful hunt with them, you are just running more of a risk.
How long has the guide been operating in the area you will be hunting? A guide should know an area inside and out, from daily game movements to average temperatures for the season you are hunting. If the guide has hunted the area for a long time it will greatly increase your chances of success.
What is the size of the outfitter's area? Are other outfitters in the same area? Can residents hunt the area?
How many guides are there per hunter? What kind of equipment does the outfitter have? Be sure to ask the outfitter how many hunters will be assigned to each guide. In many cases one guide for every two hunters is about right. If more than two hunters are assigned to a guide then logistical problems are a real possibility
Is the tag a drawing in your area (or owner permit) If drawing will we get a total refund if we do not draw a tag? What percentages of the applicants are successful in the drawing in your area?
What type of animal is the outfitters specialty? (Elk, Deer, Bear, Moose) Ask him if he only hunts one animal at a time or does he have combination hunts. (example: Elk and deer)
What are the hunting guides average opportunity rate for both the season and the game animal? You need to be very succinct with this question. You are not looking for an average of all the game animals that the guide hunts, just your animal and your season. Opportunity rate vs. success rate: Outfitters success should not be judged by the hunter’s ability to make the shot!
How many people total hunt the guide’s concession per year. This question will help to tell if the guide is managing his area for the future/
What is the TOTAL price and are there any extra fees? This sounds simple, but often a gratuity is not included, how about if you get an animal is the fieldwork taken care of or is it extra. These small fees can really add up quickly, make sure you know exactly what is included in the price. Make sure to inquire about the required deposit and whether it's refundable should you have to back out of the hunt. In addition, fully understand the length of the hunt in terms of total days of in-the-field hunting. Many outfitters state that they offer six-day hunts when in reality the hunt amounts to less days due to travel time into the wilderness. There is no problem with this if you understand it up front.
What is the transportation to and from camp? Is it an easy drive from town or is it a 26-mile horseback ride? Most guides will offer a pick-up service from the nearest airport but you need to ask if you plan on flying.
How does the Outfitter care for the meat? Do they do everything from gutting, field dressing, packing back to camp, cleaning & hanging. If you have an early hunt when it is still warm how do they keep the meat from spoiling? If you are packed in do they send the meat out to a cooler or butcher for you?
Trophy Care: Do they field cape the animal leaving the head on but cutting off at the neck or do they completely cape the animal off of the scull?
Ask for References A good hunting guide will have plenty of references for you to check, if they don't be leery. Don't hesitate to call and check, you can get a pretty good idea on what to expect by talking to other hunters who have used the hunting guide. Ask for both successful and unsuccessful hunters.
If you harvest an animal, miss or turn down a shot what happens? Some outfitters feel your hunt is over…ask! Are you required to leave or can you stay in camp to enjoy the rest of your vacation or can you be packed out if you want to leave early.
What do you need to bring? Again, get specific; if you need to bring bedding, it is good to know in advance, your hunting guide should have a list they can mail to you. Is there a weight limit? Is your rifle and daypack included in that limit? What is the weather normally like so you know what kind of clothing to bring? In every case bring plenty of layers!
How physically demanding is the hunt? If you have any physical limitations, or are just out of shape, a 10-mile hike each way to the hunting area from base camp is probably too much. There is no shame in asking and it can save you thousands of dollars for a hunt you can't participate in.
Who will be guiding your hunt? Some of the larger hunting guides may have some younger/other guides working for them, who may take out the clients, while the main guide works on the business end of the service.
What are the sleeping arrangements/accommodations? Is this a lodge you will be hunting out of, Wall tent, backpacking tents? Will you be sharing a room/tent with how many other hunters? What is the Outfitters policy regarding smokers?
Who supplies food and is a cook provided? This seems like a simple thing, but more than one hunter has gotten to camp only to find that they needed to bring their own food. If you have special dietary needs can they accommodate them? Especially on semi-guided hunts you need to ask if a cook is provided or will you be doing your own cooking and dishes?
How many hunters will be in camp at the same time? Find out ahead of time how many other hunters will be in the camp. You don’t want to hunt an area that was hunted the day before by someone else from your camp.

Questions to ask the references: You are going to ask some of the same questions that you asked the outfitter to see if the answers are the same.

How many years have you hunted with X Outfitters?
What was the hunter to guide ratio?
What did you think of the guides?
Were they knowledgeable of the area and the species that you were hunting?
Did they join you at mealtime to share stories?
Were you successful?
If not, would you go back?
If yes: (let them tell you their hunting story and congratulate them)
How was the meat taken care of?
How was the trophy head taken care of
Would you go back?
How many hunters were in camp?
If using stock: Tell me about the horses, did they perform well?
Ask about the area they hunted, their perception of the area.
Does is seem to hold a number of animal?
Did you see any other hunters?
How tough was the terrain
What were the accommodations like?
How was the food?

By asking questions ahead of time, you can ensure that your well-deserved hunt is enjoyable and memorable.


Simple sample letter:

Dear Outfitter:

My hunting partner and I are looking to book an elk hunt with an outfitter for the year 2013. We are interested in rifle hunting on a classic horseback hunt with bulls that score in the 350-380 range. We want a fully guided hunt with a ratio of two hunters to one guide.

Can you tell us the location of your hunting camps?
Do you own a ranch, lease private land or use permits to hunt BLM, National Forest or wilderness?
What is your opportunity and success percentage on bull elk over the last five years?
Is the tag a drawing in your area (or owner permit) If drawing will we get a total refund if we do not draw a tag?
What percentages of the applicants are successful in the drawing in your area?
Do you belong to a state outfitters association or guide service and do you have liability insurance to cover unexpected accidents?
I need some references for last years hunt too, both successful and not successful.
We look forward to hearing from you. Please send us your brochure, any other information you have available and possible hunt dates for 2013.
Thank you,

Your name
Your Address
Your e-mail address
Your phone number

[Indian Summer]

I like "Can you give me the names and numbers of ALL of last years hunters lucky or not" You may want to add that you realize all hunters aren't exactly good at what they do. Any answer other than a quick yes isn't a good sign. Even crappy hunters see and hear game.

I also like to initiate a conversation about bowhunting if it's a bowhunt I'm booking. I'll throw in some details about brodheads or brace heights etc. If the guy can't talk bowhunting I'm out.

[buglmin]

I've read your comments, and you guys need to understand that although it has a lot to do with the outfitter, it really comes down to the guides. You might find a great outfitter, but if he has young, inexperienced guides, or guides that havent guided bowhunters, then the hunt could be a wash. Ask the outfitter questions about the guides, how long have they worked for you, are they returning again, do they know the area, and have they guided bowhunters. Having the right guide could make or break your hunt.
I've seen it all....guys that think they are the best elk hunters in the world to guys that have never seen an elk in the wild. We've had guys show up that were so big we couldnt get them on horses, and guys so out of shape the couldnt walk 100 yards. You have to be honest with the outfitter too...it really sucks to get a guy 8 miles in, and find out he cant eat the food in camp cause of allergies or diabetes...or having a guy with extreme allergies that he cant even leave camp because of the sneezing and watering eyes.

[Goat Boy]

If you do all the research and find an outfiter that is the best then then the likely hood is that his guides are the best.

[buglmin]

No sir, not always, and I wouldnt bank on it. Guides go where the money is. When you pay your guides a $100.00 a day, and another outfitter offers $150.00 a day, the guides jump ship and fast. Years ago, when the outfitter we worked for got the Floyd Lee Ranch in NM, he had to send three of us down there cause the hunters were complaining bout the guides. On the Banded Peak Ranch, I was called in mid season cause the outfitter fired the guides.
Guides and outfitteres dont always see eye to eye, and there is nothing worse then a guide mad at an outfitter. The guide feels like he is getting screwed, and he stops putting out 100%.
If an outfitter has to keep hiring new guides every year, I'd be concerned. And if you can talk to the guides, you might learn a lot about the outfitter. Not very many outfitters guide, and youre usually in the hands of the guide, not the outfitter.

[easeup]

you guys have some good line going on this one.....

my contribution to the guy considering a hunt is more to the heart before you ever call anybody.
What is it that is most important to you on a hunt and why?
What are you really looking for on a hunt?

If more guys would be still in their mind, be honest with themselves; know what they are looking for; then, well it makes that attribute easier to find.

simple examples might be; "I just want to kll a bull" - then go find someone that is talking high success numbers.
If one was to say; I want most to ride a horse in the wilderness; camp in a wall tent, and take it all in, then go find a guy that hunts like that.

An outfitter can provide you with a good hunt, but if it not really what you were looking for, you may be disappointed.
So when you go home from your hunt, you want your heart to be satisfied by your labor.

[Indian Summer]

"I've seen it all....guys that think they are the best elk hunters in the world to guys that have never seen an elk in the wild. We've had guys show up that were so big we couldnt get them on horses, and guys so out of shape the couldnt walk 100 yards. You have to be honest with the outfitter"

Amen to that. Not only does it help them plan the hunt that is right for you... it could also save your life.

I was guiding for another outfitter in the Bitterroot. We were still in our saddles pulling into elk camp after a 3 hour ride. All of the sudden one client starts yelling "My leg my leg!!!" We look back and his foot was pointing backward after he caught it on a tree and his horse kept going. It was obvious that he had either severely broken something.... ankle, knee or both. It was way worse than a sprain or dislocation.

In that moment where you're brain is processing what just happened and what's about to hapen his buddy jumps off of his horse, runs over, grabs the guys foot...... and spins it back around to where it belongs! The guys calms right down and says thanks.

We're still speechless when he says "oh yeah I guess I didn't tell you guys I only have one leg. Never told the outfitter either.

I had an unguided client who got really bitchy by the 3rd day. Not uncommon since the mountains chew guys up all the time. It was so bad though that eventually we heard his buddies in the tent giving him a choice: Grow up or shut up. Then they come in the dining tent where he proceeds to give us an explanation for his natsyness: "You'd be pissed off too if you tried this $h1t with one lung" 0K.... let me process that! L0L.... I'm not so sure I'd try this #%7@ with 1 lung!

0n a more serious note: I had a guy who came from Texas with his son. The morning of day 1 he is way overdressed and starts the usual profuse sweating and heavy breathing. Pretty normal really so I'm going really slow and taking breaks. Until him and his son step away for a quick conversation in private. They come back and tell me that they think he may be going to have a heart attack. Wow ok tell me more quick!.... tell me about your symptoms...... he said he had numbness in his hands and fingers, a really tight pain in his chest, was dizzy, couldn't catch his breath.... and by the way, I had open heart surgery and a triple bypass 3 months ago. Ding ding! You didn't tell the outfitter or anyone? No. That's when the 25 year old son breaks down and starts pleading with me "My mom told me that if anything happened to my dad up here she'd never forgive me. I promised her I'd get him off the mountain right away if things didn't look good. You gotta get us out of here and now." Yeah no kidding dude!!!

We packed them out and everything was fine except my tip. lol

Sorry to get off track of the thread but the point is that it's amazing the things hunters don't tell or ask outfitters. Honesty is a two way street. Be honest with him, AND Y0URSELF about your abilities as well as your realistic goals and you'll have way better hunt..... and probably live to tell about it.

[Trophyhill]

i would ask if i get to kill what i want or do i have to kill a certain animal? i don't know if i could do a fully guided hunt if someone else was making all my decisions for me.