50 Yards, No Problem.

[WapitiTalk1]

Ran this one on AT a while back.. Got some interesting chatter going.

Allrighty, another waddaya think thread Soooo campers, you've shot your fixed blade broadheads till your target is ragged, bleeding it's guts all over your yard and pleading "no more, no more". Let's say it's only weeks till the opening of the fall wapiti season in the state you're hunting. You can honestly say "my consistent grouping at 50 yards is XX inches" and I feel very confident that I can touch off an arrow from my bow and hit the vitals of an elk. Sure, we all prefer the 12 1/2 yard shot but dedicated elk hunters practice at much greater distances for those possible situations that necessitate a bit of a longer shot. I know the particular situation unfolding in the elk woods has a profound bearing on your decision at the moment of truth (Trophyhillism) but just curious, how tight of a group do you personally deem as acceptable in "practice" before season to loose a broadhead at a bull at 50 yards.

[cnelk]

a 3 shot, 3 inch group at 60yds for me.
60 is my max practice distance

[T/H]

i would say 3" would be acceptable to most

[Swede]

You folks that can shoot a 3 inch group at 60 yards make me sick. LOL Maybe that is why I limit my shots to 40 yards or less.

[FemoralArchery]

1 inch per 10 yards is what most deem acceptable.

I would be happy with 2-3". I would not shoot an elk at that distance if I couldn't shoot 2-3" groups at 50 yards.

[Heartwood]

I certainly respect those archers that can shoot nice tight groups at 50 yards and many can with today's much improved equipment. However we all know that lots of things can happen to foul up longer shots in the field under hunting conditions. I would probably take such a shot on a live elk if conditions were
"right" , known distance and angle, time, no wind, no obstructions etc. Sometimes I think back to some of those "slam dunk" opportonities gone bad in the past and it makes me feel rather humble. Finding and knowing our limits as archers is difficult when each and every situation we encounter is different.

[LckyTylr]

Good post Heartwood.

I can't shoot 3" at 60, I can do 4.5" at 60, but I'm not comfortable with that on a live animal of any sort.

With arrow flight time, at 60 yards, even with my smokin' fast bow, one half step of an unassuming bull means gut shot, alarmed or not.

Once that arrow is on its way, there is no getting it back and no "I'm Sorry's" to a wounded animal. You get to live with it. I have only had to suffer through the mental anguish that accompanies a wounded animal once, and that was enough.

First shot on a live animal for me . . . 40 yards.

Follow up shots, I'll be smoking 'em at 60 all day if they let me get more arrows knocked.

[foxvalley]

More like paper plate groups for me at 50,standing broadside,at an elk, no problem. Just cuz you can shoot 3-4 inch groups at a target,doesn't guarrantee that will happen on a huge bull tearing a tree apart at 50.LOL.

[ElkNut1]

Shot this bull at 50yds. My answer, tight enough! (grin)

ElkNut1

[cnelk]

48 yards on this bull. My longest shot on an elk yet.
You can see the Broadhead almost poking thru the hide in the front shoulder

[elkmtngear]

Bowhunting elk for me is a dynamic event. I practice out to 50 (bare bow, compound with fingers), and I can group in about a 10 inch circle. I shoot through brush, on my knees,
leaning around trees, etc.

That being said, my longest shot on an elk was 45 yards. Nothing I care to repeat, it was a last day, last chance evening hunt, second year cow standing broadside. I got the job done. Every other elk I have killed has been under 20 yds.

If I think I can pull off an effective kill, I will take the shot. If there is any reason to believe otherwise, I will hold off. The situation can change in a split second.

[buglmin]

Once my bow it set up and grouping good at 30 and 40 yards, I no longer shoot more then one arrow per target. I shoot from 15 yards to 70 yards, only one arrow. The first thing every morning, I allow myself one shot at a 30 yard target. No warm up, no sctretching...To stay in one spot and shoot four arrows is boring to me, so I walk around my targets, guess the range and then check the range with a rangefinder.

[foxvalley]

This is one shot I would NOT recommend taking at 50,30 yds was scary enough,thank you.

compressed.jpg (45.51 KiB) Viewed 32572 times

[Swede]

I have a great respect for hunters who know their maximum effective range and live within it. It does not matter if that range is 20 yards or 60 yards. I have to admit to having doubts when I hear of hunters who shoot 80 or even 100 yard shots. Like a post above mentioned, the target animal can move in an instant. Elknut and Cnelk can be justifably proud of their accomplishment. Elkmthgear and Buglmin know their ability and their effective range. They too are lethal predators. Unfortunately not everyone has the same moral compass these men live with. Unfortunately some hunters live with the addage, "you won't get anything if you don't shoot." They shoot a lot, and sometimes they get incredible trophies; which in turn encourages them to just keep on shooting. It is unfortunate, but I know some of these people. I have seen them on the 3D range. I have heard their hunting stories. I have seen their hunting trophies.

[Herb]

I like to practice out to 60. When it comes to the shot in the heat of the moment, I rarely can tell you the yardage, the mind just dials that in some what automatically.

Pretty sure this was about 25 yards, about far enough for me for that shot, he took 10 steps and was down.



I have to change my target point practicing, the the arrows really get beat up shooting groups. I like the 3" groups. I have a recurve I like to play with, but I've never gotten consistent enough with it that I would take it on a elk hunt.

[cnelk]

Herb
I absolutely love that pic....

[Swede]

IMG_0145.JPG (323.57 KiB) Viewed 32554 times

After seeing Foxvalley's and Herb's pictures which showed difficult, but ethical shots made on elk, taken at a relatively close range, I remembered this bull I shot about four years ago. The range was 25 yards. The bull was following his herd. The cows and calves had crossed a meadow in front of me. Each of them had stopped, and I could have shot any one of them, but I waited for this guy. When he crossed the meadow folowing them, he stopped behind a large pine tree. Almost all of his vitals were hidden. He left only about 2 inches of his lungs. Any movemnet forward would leave me no chance. I knew he would bolt out of there soon, as his herd was getting farther and farther away. When I came to full draw, I knew I had to make my decision while my bow was drawn. One step forward and he was gone forever. I decided and softly pulled on the trigger, as he had made no motion to leave. He fell over dead within 60 yards. Every shot is a decision in itself.

[flystrait]

I can shoot a tennis ball at 60 yards, BUT I personally will not shoot over 35-40 yards at a elk and never actually needed to. As some of the earlier posts suggest too may things can happen in that short window of opportunity. My closes is 3 yards my furthest was 34 yards. I much rather have the 3 yard over anything else.

34 yard bull

photo[2].JPG (130.84 KiB) Viewed 32531 times

3 yard bull

photo[1].JPG (264.84 KiB) Viewed 32531 times

[buglmin]

The problem comes when guys dont realize the size of an elk, and shoot for 40 when the bull is 50+ yards...seen it too often. We had an IBO World Champion flat out miss a bull at 30 yards one morning...shot under neath him.
When I'm carrying a recurve, thats when I gotta really be careful of shots I take that I would take with a compound. I dont shoot bulls head on or quarting to me unless they are under 10 yards, but broadside, I'm good to 35 or 40 yards. But I sure love them shots measured in feet, not zip codes...
I try to tell guys to take the first good shot a bull gives them once they are inside 30 yards. Hate when a bull comes in too close and the hunter gets buggered...thats when bad things happen to good shots.

[LckyTylr]

Flystraight . . . . DANG!!!

Nice Bulls!

[T/H]

awesome bulls Craig! you are the man!

[POk3s]

That three yard shot is the best one I've seen so far.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would prefer to shoot every animal at 10 yards, but FOR ME there is no excuse to not have my equipment find tunes, my mind fine tuned, my form fine tuned, and my overall ability as an archer fine tuned. I regularly practice out to 90 yards. Occasionally 100. I do this simply to make those 50 yard shots "easy".

I've killed one buck antelope at 69 yards and a doe that I estimated for 70 and smoked. I've missed my fair share too, obviously but my misses have been on antelope.....and one bull elk. Antelope have a way of jumping the string weather it's 40 yards or 70 yards. I've shot at antelope at 40 yards and had them not even be there when the arrow got there out of a Bowtech 82nd airborne shooting 293 fps. Animals move, yes and that's part of the game. Some things you can only control to a point. I can't stalk much closer to antelope than 40 yards in shin high sage.

A little bit off topic I guess but just simply showing MY NEED for fine tuning myself and my equipment to be the best archer and hunter I can be. If something happens that I can't control I can live with that. If I make a bad shot because of lack of focus or practice, or my equipment is not as tuned as it should be resulting in an arrant shot....I CAN NOT live with that!

[wapitibowman]

It surprises me how many people shoot 3" groups at 50 yards!!! That is a loooooong shot and a very small area. I'm not saying it can't be done, but wow, we have some excellent shooters amongst us!!! Whenever I answer questions like this, I always like to error to the larger group size (so I am not lying to myself - we would all love to shoot better than we actually do). If others follow this same practice, some people are shooting 2" groups consistently at 50 yards. I would say my group is in the ~5" range at 50 yards at a target . . . who knows on a live animal, I have never had an animal stand there and allow me to group arrows into its vitals, lol.

I like Elknut's answer, shoot what you know you are capable of shooting. Know your limits, be honest with yourself, be fair to the game, let 'em walk if it isn't right for you.

Wapitibowman

[wideangle]

My honest limit is 20-25 yards with a long bow. However, that said, modern equipment is amazing when combined with skill.

[ironhead22]

I have always practiced at least 20 yards past where I think my longest shot could be, 40 yards for 20, 60 yards for 40 ect ect. I belive I'm better at 60 yards if I spend months at 80 yards. I can get a 3 inch group at 80 yards consistently. I have shot broadheads out to 100 wouldn't dream of ever taking a shot like that at an animal but my point is the more you practice those long shots the easier it is to make those 40-50 yard shots because you've done it hundreds of time's at 80.

[G Posik]

I only shoot loose groups when needing get more arrows slung down range. I typically shoot one arrow at a time. When it starts getting closer to hunting season I will set my 18/1 at 50 yds. Stand next to the target and run to my bow 50 yds away. Pick up the bow and make the shot before 10 seconds of getting to my bow. This comes close to coming over a small ridge and seeing a bull standing at any distance. I will say I will not take a shot at any distance unless I am sure I will make a good shot. That is why I practice the way I do.

Glenn

[ElkNut1]

Glenn, sweet bull, man he looks old! Was he using a cane when you shot him!!! (grin) How long is your longbow?

ElkNut1

[G Posik]

He was old, Just before I got the shot off he had put another bull on the ground and wounded him bad. The long bow is a 62". I cannot wait for him to get home from the Taxi, having a ped mount done on him. This was a private land hunt and the only one I have ever been on and probably the last as $ is a factor. This was a trip I was taken on by someone else, hence the only reason I went. I did take and use a few things form this guy out there called ELKNUT. I would say a few years ago I was shy in my calling, then really started listening to your play book and working on my calling. When the time came to play the game of calling with this guy before I had even seen him I was not worried in the least. When I first seen him I was a little surprised of what came out. Then a quick reminder to get back in the game and it was focus time again. My goal for this year is to get my guys in my elk hunting group some good shots on bulls. Still listen to the playbook and practice. Thanks Paul for putting your knowledge out there for everyone like you do. Some of us really do pay attention.

Glenn

[ctdad]

I practice out to 90 yards often. My groups at 50 are not 3 inches, but they are lethal for elk.

That being said, last fall I had a big 6 I had called in at 53 yards broadside and I passed on the shot. It was a marginal shot (due to one small tree) and I didn't want to mess it up. I've relived that at least 1000 times already b/c I came home without an elk. I am at peace with it and know I did the right thing, but wow that would have been nice on the first day of my hunt. Without a single 3 inch tree located just across the vitals, I would have let the arrow fly. Confident I would have killed him too.

I am a little curious what a 3 inch group is to most? Is that a 1.5 inch radius from the middle of your intended spot, or is that a 3 inch radius (6 inch diameter)?

[>>>---WW---->]

For me, 50 yards is totally unacceptable. I'm just not that confident of my ability at that range, that little tree limb that may go unnoticed at that range, the wind, the time of flight that may allow the animal to move ever so slightly, and the list could go on and on.

50+ yards is not what bowhunting is about in my book. Getting close is the name of the game. The only time I would even think about it would be for a second shot standing still on an already wounded animal.

This is not intended to ruffle anyone elses feathers! If you can do it and you are DEAD SURE of your ability to do it, that's up to you.

It's kinda like Clint Eastwood says, " A man has to know his limitations " !

[Vanish]

I don't know how you guys do it. It must be these new fangled bows and light carbon arrows. My 65lb bow from 1999 with aluminum arrows absolutely maxes at 60 yards ... I'm using my bubble as my aiming point for that range. I do practice at 50 fairly often, but the drop is just so severe I would not shoot an animal at that range.

[Chad44]

With arrow broad head and bow technology as it is there is no reason not to be able to shoot that far. I practice all year long. Indoor leagues in the winter and 3d in the summer. If you know the range there is no reason to not take a 50 yard shot on a bull ( if you practice and are confident with it). An elks vitals are gigantic and I've never seen an elk jump a string like a white tail. Like many have said, practicing out at 80-90 yards makes 50 seem like 20. And for those that doubt small groups at long distance go sit at a tournament sometime. Lots of great shooters out there. I was just reading extreme elk magazine last night where Cameron Hanes regularly shoots out to 130 yards in the off season. If you've never tried it I recommend it. It's really fun watching your arrow arch in.

[Da White Shoe]

With arrow broad head and bow technology as it is there is no reason not to be able to shoot that far. I practice all year long. Indoor leagues in the winter and 3d in the summer. If you know the range there is no reason to not take a 50 yard shot on a bull ( if you practice and are confident with it). An elks vitals are gigantic and I've never seen an elk jump a string like a white tail. Like many have said, practicing out at 80-90 yards makes 50 seem like 20. And for those that doubt small groups at long distance go sit at a tournament sometime. Lots of great shooters out there. I was just reading extreme elk magazine last night where Cameron Hanes regularly shoots out to 130 yards in the off season. If you've never tried it I recommend it. It's really fun watching your arrow arch in.

I agree 100% with everything you said... except this.

They're not as prone to do it, but they will drop to load their legs, just like a whitetail. The last bull I killed did it.
Stopped him with a call. He was 45 yards, broadside and looking at me.
It knocked him right down with a spine shot, but if I hadn't been aiming low to begin with...

Aiming low is not a bad idea in bowhunting anyway.

[FemoralArchery]

I have a great respect for hunters who know their maximum effective range and live within it. It does not matter if that range is 20 yards or 60 yards. I have to admit to having doubts when I hear of hunters who shoot 80 or even 100 yard shots. Like a post above mentioned, the target animal can move in an instant. Elknut and Cnelk can be justifably proud of their accomplishment. Elkmthgear and Buglmin know their ability and their effective range. They too are lethal predators. Unfortunately not everyone has the same moral compass these men live with. Unfortunately some hunters live with the addage, "you won't get anything if you don't shoot." They shoot a lot, and sometimes they get incredible trophies; which in turn encourages them to just keep on shooting. It is unfortunate, but I know some of these people. I have seen them on the 3D range. I have heard their hunting stories. I have seen their hunting trophies.

What exactly is their moral compass? Buglemin didn't even mention hunting at all in his post. Paul's answer was "tight enough" and cnelk more or less didn't answer at all. Now,I'm not at all suggesting that they don't have a moral compass, or that they are anything but the most ethical hunters. But how are you commending them over anyone else?

In my opinion, Jeff had the best answer of all, "If I think I can pull off an effective kill, I will take the shot. If there is any reason to believe otherwise, I will hold off. The situation can change in a split second."

What is there to doubt about hunters who shoot 80 yards or more? I've seen several guys on other forums say they have and would shoot at animals at those distances. I have to question their ethics, but I don't doubt them. Some people do it and are successful. There are plenty of hunters that regularly wound animals at less than 50 yards. Some claim that if you shoot beyond XX yards, you will always wound and lose animals.

[foxvalley]

One thing that should be taken into consideration when taking a shot at an animal, is the state of mind and body that you are in when doing so. Do you really think you will shoot as good:( Charging uphill fo 100 yds. then chasing the bull another 300 yds., then have him,a huge giant bull, bigger than you ever saw, standing in front of you. Now dump a half gallon of adreniline into the mix) as good as you are liesurely standing 60 yds. from an inatimate target,with all the time in the world?

Do you really want to find out your effective range under duress?
Go do your daily workout,then run a mile or two,now before you do anything else,run up to your bow,that you preloaded with an arrow and waiting for you,and shoot a few times.

[>>>---WW---->]

All I can say is for you guys that can consistantly shoot 3" groups at 50 yards (one guy even said he could do it at 80 yds). You are wasting your time hunting. You should be on the pro circut shooting for one of the big three archery companies.

My hat's off to all you deadeye shooters. I sure can't do it!

[wapitibowman]

All I can say is for you guys that can consistantly shoot 3" groups at 50 yards (one guy even said he could do it at 80 yds). You are wasting your time hunting. You should be on the pro circut shooting for one of the big three archery companies.

My hat's off to all you deadeye shooters. I sure can't do it!

Amen.

[cnelk]

Let me clarify...

I strive to shoot a one shot group, in a lethal spot, on an elk, out to 50 yds, with my compound.

I hope this helps helps answer any questions, i.e. moral compass or group size

Also,
This fall, my intentions are to tag 2 elk, one with a compound, one with a recurve.
My max distance wont be anywhere near 50yds with the recurve.
Moral compass or not...

What is a moral compass anyway?

[Black Wolf]

how tight of a group do you personally deem as acceptable in "practice" before season to loose a broadhead at a bull at 50 yards.

I may get slammed for this....but I will practice 50yrds. shots and I would say I can consistently put my arrows into a 10" -12" group with every arrow in the kill zone with my recurve.

The only time I've taken a 50yrds. shot at an elk is to put another arrow into one of my friends bulls he had gut shot with his compound bow at 25yrds.

Here's a pic of the double we got. After putting another arrow into his...we heard my bull bugling and racking a tree about 75yrds. away and I stalked to within 20yrds. and got a complete pass through the the heart and lungs.

Please excuse the gratuitious shirtless pic...it was pretty hot out that day

Ray

[wapitibowman]

More clarification . . .

If you know you can make the shot . . . you feel good about it . . . it's your decision . . . you live with the consequences!! It's hard for one person to tell another what is ethical or moral when it comes to shooting. Some people take shots (and appear to brag about them) that make me cringe and I believe give us all a bad name, but all I can do is disagree with THEIR choice. I am not going to change THEM. I believe you should try to become as proficient as you can be with your weapon of choice and then make/take shots that you know YOU can make. Even then . . . things go wrong, you flinch, you peek around the bow, the animal moves, the wind blows, branches grow hands, lightening strikes your arrow, sasquatch catches your arrow in mid flight, etc., etc. It is no guarantee no matter how capable you are at any distance!!

Wapitibowman

[ironhead22]

OK my turn to clarify
I will not take a shot at any animal at 80 yards but I do practice out that far so if presented with a 50-60 yard shot I am supremely confident in that shot.according to P&Y club statistics 50% of trophy elk are shot beyond 30 yards and 25% are shot beyond 40 yard's.

[Chad44]

With arrow broad head and bow technology as it is there is no reason not to be able to shoot that far. I practice all year long. Indoor leagues in the winter and 3d in the summer. If you know the range there is no reason to not take a 50 yard shot on a bull ( if you practice and are confident with it). An elks vitals are gigantic and I've never seen an elk jump a string like a white tail. Like many have said, practicing out at 80-90 yards makes 50 seem like 20. And for those that doubt small groups at long distance go sit at a tournament sometime. Lots of great shooters out there. I was just reading extreme elk magazine last night where Cameron Hanes regularly shoots out to 130 yards in the off season. If you've never tried it I recommend it. It's really fun watching your arrow arch in.

I agree 100% with everything you said... except this.

They're not as prone to do it, but they will drop to load their legs, just like a whitetail. The last bull I killed did it.
Stopped him with a call. He was 45 yards, broadside and looking at me.
It knocked him right down with a spine shot, but if I hadn't been aiming low to begin with...

Aiming low is not a bad idea in bowhunting anyway.

I agree. Aiming low is always best when you know the yardage exactly. I guess I should've said I've never had an elk jump a string for me. Not that they will never do it.

[slim9300]

50 yards is cake here. My 2012 bull was 51 yards if I recall correctly.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1360032734.134872.jpg (162.74 KiB) Viewed 32166 times

[Huntrgathr]

I practice out to 65 (that's where I run out of pins). I can group 5" at 55 yds (honest and conservative estimate) consistently. And I'd feel comfortable shooting at animals based on that group size, but here's how I decide on my absolute max range : I practice all Summer long and get my groups as tight as I can. Then, in the Fall, I make a point to shoot more when it's really cold, windy, last light, raining, when I'm tired and worn out, etc. That tells me a lot more about my max range than my fair weather, ideal conditions, group size.

Another test I use is to walk out every morning in all my gear, elevate my heart rate and shoot one arrow at what I think is my max range. If I don't hit a 5" circle, I won't shoot that far on my hunt. My max range changes all the time based on how well I'm shooting. Sometimes it's 60. Sometimes 40 (we all go through slumps). Even more important are all the variables at the time of the actual shot. It's got to feel right. I've passed a whole lot of shots. I've passed shots as close as 15 yards where the animal was moving or brush was in the way. If you're relaxed, have ample time and the animal is cooperating (especially elk sized targets) 50 yards is no problem.

[BowKill]

First and foremost a man must know his own limitations, I don't like arguements on ethical distances based on when people use their own abilities and then hold others to the same limits. Personally I don't believe that 50yds is to far, I'll go as far to say that I don't think 80yds is too far under certain conditions for me. But this is my opinion based on my abilities, not your abilities or anyones elses. Standing in my backyard I could kill an elk target every shot out to 100yds all day long pending certain variables were in check. But the problem is I don't take my backyard elk hunting with me. My abilities are controlled and limited by my environment, my physical condition, and my mood. At home I have very few variables to deal with, I usually practice about the same time of day which means I'm running on about the same hours of sleep and nourishment when I go out to shoot. If the weather is poor, or work was mentally or physically exhausting for the day I usually skip the practice session for the evening, should I? Probably not, instead I should take advantage of a bad day for some great elk hunting target practice. I would guess most of us don't take advantage of these times either when we are physically tired or mentally drained to grab our bows and go outside and shoot some arrows. What about when it's cold and raining with a 20mph wind, I bet we skip those practice times too. But when we are elk hunting we don't have the luxury of picking and chosing when we get the chance at the bull of our season, we have to roll with the punches and step up to the plate and perform.

When we're elk hunting we are up well before dawn and not going to bed until its well after dark and we end up exhausted most days even before dark settles in. We're not living at the office all day, we're climbing mountains day after day. The food we're eating is not the same as the home cookin we are used to. Our whole physical environment has changed too, instead of nice flat sidewalks and streets we have extreme inclines and blown down timber to traverse along with tempertures that can vary 40degrees in one day. So I ask, how in the world do we just automatically assume we are good shooting out to a certain distance in these conditions, especially longer distances? I think this is where some of us get ourselves into trouble with taking risky shots. We must know our limitations and then allow the situation to present it's self before we put undo pressure onto ourselves to make a shot within our previous imagined preset distance. If we tell ourselves that we can shoot 50yds no problem and the bull steps into a 50yd window, we have already tricked ourselfs subconsiously unless we have practiced this under simulated stressful conditions enough times for us to ingrain it into our brains and be prepared for it prior to the hunt. Consiously we are thinking 50yds is in my shooting ability take the shot, take the shot, but subconsiously we might be doubting our abililities. This is the undo pressure that I'm talking about. My opinion is that we would be much better off not assigning distances to our abililities until we prove and prove again to ourselves that we can make those shots in replicated scenarios. How about running one mile, pickup your bow and shoot one arrow at 50yds into a 3D target. Or how about after a mentally exhausting day, jump on your mountain bike and ride 5miles, jump off and shoot 50yds. Then try adding in the next time holding your bow at full draw for one full minute after elevating your heart rate. I just finished watching a show featured on the Military Channel about a sniper competition. One of the main things that I picked up on was a sniper is not just a guy who can make a 1500 meter shot, but a master of being physically fit and mentally fit for the job. The shooting aspect was not nessasarliy the focus of their training to learn how to be a good sniper, don't get me wrong those guys know all of the in's and out's of shooting but they would never be a good sniper and place well in the competition with out first being physically and mentally prepared. I once read a book about how athletes prepare subconsiously and how important it was to train the subconsious mind to win in competion, I believe if we practice like we are going to hunt those longer shots if needed will come more natural and just as easy to make. Try some 3D tournaments and see how you mentally hold up, most of us will put undo pressure on ourselves to make good shots in competition. It's also un-natural for us to forget about a bad shot on the previous target and shake it off on the very next target. Usually a bad shot will hang onto a guy for several targets unless he is mentally strong and can forget about it. Take notes on how far the targets were and align that up with your score card, do you see any patterns? Subconsious training coupled with physical and mental stress takes us above backyard shooting and really teaches us what are true abilities are under certain simulated conditions.

In conclusion, learning to read the physical and mental conditions in the field and then comparing them to our simulated practice conditions that we have rehearsed over and over should give us a good idea of weather or not our animal is within range based on our tested and proven abilities.

Here is a buck I shot in 2008 after running out of cover and determining that there was not going to be anyway to sneak closer or back out for a different approach with out being spotted. After ranging and evaluating the distance and my physical and mental conditions I determined that I could make an ethical shot, the buck had no idea that I was around and he had his head down feeding. He was at 72yds- Bowkill

[cnelk]

Limitations or not, I believe that some people are just better shots than others.
No matter how much practice is put forth.

You all know what I'm saying.
Some guys have that 'dead eye', others don't.