Wapiti Talk | Elk Hunting Forum | Elk Hunting Tips
 

Advanced technology

Moderators: Swede, Tigger, Lefty, Indian Summer, WapitiTalk1

Advanced technology

Postby GPelkhunter » 05 09, 2023 •  [Post 1]

G'day everyone

I was listening to a podcast the other day and a gentleman called in talking about an encounter he had at a hunting store with a stranger. The person calling was asking the store owner about Rangefinder Bow Sights in which the stranger started grilling this guy that 'technology is ruining the sport' and basically calling this guy down because he was entertaining the thought of using this new tech. The general consensus from the group doing the podcast was that technology is riddled throughout the sport: from calls, weapons, to general transportation and that embracing any sort of new age advantage is a good idea. Is there a line out there that people feel is lawful but unethical, or going too far? I personally think the Rangefinder Bow Sight is rather cool. Has anyone tried this?

I was going to go out and do some scouting this upcoming week and thought to myself 'what about a drone'? I don't have any plans on using a drone for days where I'm actually hunting (this I feel is unethical and would take away from the sport) but rather use the drone to find wallows and smaller water sources that google maps can't zoom in on accurately enough. I want to walk into a trail and use the drone to scan 100 yards on each side to find any hidden gems. Just wondering if anyone does this or knows of anyone who utilizes drones for scouting?

Tree stand escalator anyone?
GPelkhunter
Rank: New User
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 04 03, 2023

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Elkhunttoo » 05 09, 2023 •  [Post 2]

Technology is definitely changing the hunting landscape. People shooting animals from over 1000 yards away with rifles. Over 100 yards away with bows. Honestly idk what the answer is to how much is to much and I think that is for each individual to decide themselves. But each state has different laws. Here in Idaho you cannot have anything electronic on your bow and so a range finder sight is out.

Technology has changed calls but you still have to use your own power to use those calls. Study practice and prepare for what sounds you want to make and when.

I’m interested to hear the thoughts on drones and scouting.
Elkhunttoo
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1160
Joined: 05 23, 2016

Re: Advanced technology

Postby saddlesore » 05 09, 2023 •  [Post 3]

Just another short cut cut to what everyone should be learning. Same with cameras
User avatar
saddlesore
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 11 07, 2015
Location: Colorado Springs,CO

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Swede » 05 09, 2023 •  [Post 4]

If it is legal you might as well use it. I hate the advancements that technology has brought to bow hunting. From the time I started bow hunting 50 years ago with a stick bow until now, the success rate for bow hunters has not changed. In places it has actually dropped. For every advance in gadgetry we see approved, there is a reduction in hunting opportunity. That said you might as well get on the bandwagon and not be left behind. Regardless of whether you are on board or not, you are going to pay the penalty for the things being used by others.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Jhg » 05 09, 2023 •  [Post 5]

saddlesore wrote:Just another short cut cut to what everyone should be learning. Same with cameras


Agreed.

What bothers me most is why so many hunters want something to make the activity not just easier, but more to the point, guaranteed.

Anyway, what a rabbit hole. I always get annoyed when all the gymnastic justifications start rolling out why more and more tech diapers are okay starting with "your recurve has fiberglass" or "your arrows are carbon". If we had to make bows and arrows from animal sinue and mastodon tusk there wouldn't be a lot of bowhunters. Somehow it seems almost impossible to have a sensible discussion about tech advances without getting bogged down in that kind of back and forth.

The elephant in the living room is that the general non-hunting public (a group we might just want to have on our side) is slowly but surely not seeing Archery (or smoke poles) as the cool, nostalgic, primitive and thus honorable, activity they once did. Why? The steady march of using tech diapers, some of which are clearly contrary to the spirit of the sport as it was originally. What was that you ask? GET CLOSER!
Watch any of the latest archery hunt videos from some big names and a lot of footage showing the hunters with their faces glued to a smartphone or ipad. What a crappy message to send to anyone who might be curious about the sport.



That does not bode well for us.
Jhg
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 864
Joined: 07 18, 2018
Location: Colorado

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Indian Summer » 05 09, 2023 •  [Post 6]

You can find everything you need on a topo map used in conjunction with Onx Maps or other satellite imagery. Drone video would be fun to make and watch but I honestly don’t think it would be worth the money as a scouting tool. Besides if I was that close I’d rather hike over to see. Who knows what I’d see and learn along the way.
User avatar
Indian Summer
Wapiti Hunting Consultant
 
Posts: 5247
Joined: 06 14, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Ferraro

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Lefty » 05 09, 2023 •  [Post 7]

GPelkhunter wrote:'technology is ruining the sport'

Similar comments have always been stated. Internet Scouters, ATV's, high-tech fabrics, spinning wing decoys, leases, trail cams, cell phones and apps,,, heck my hip replacement, my wifes knees money money and money.

Do I think some technology should be eliminated? Well I don't think a crossbow should be part of regular archery season. But thats me.
User avatar
Lefty
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 6926
Joined: 06 25, 2012
Location: Pocatello Idaho
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: H

Re: Advanced technology

Postby saddlesore » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 8]

Lefty wrote:
Do I think some technology should be eliminated? Well I don't think a crossbow should be part of regular archery season. But thats me.


Some of us have no other choice when we have a replaced shoulder. Should we sit home because we cannot draw a conventional or compound bow.
User avatar
saddlesore
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 11 07, 2015
Location: Colorado Springs,CO

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Jhg » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 9]

Yeah but Lefty, if we do not self regulate someone will eventually do it for us. We can't allow continued erosion of our sport from devices and designs that essentially undermine its very premiss. Archery hunting = hard.
By saying the changes in gear in the past justifies or excuses more changes or current ones is not going to serve our future well. Look at baseball. They essentially froze the advancement of bat design as well as the ball construction. The sport is better off for that.

Anyway, my big concern is we are advancing toward a moment when we lose our sport because it no longer is what it pretends to be- a traditional activity using gear that requires of the user skills and savvy that take time and effort to develop. To be successful an archer has to be very close to game.
Anything that diminishes that basic part of archery is really destroying its essence.
Jhg
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 864
Joined: 07 18, 2018
Location: Colorado

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Tigger » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 10]

Cool topic.

Regarding crossbows, I really haven't formed an opinion on them other than this.....people who have disabilities or have lost strength due to age should ABSOLUTELY be able to use them. As for the general public.....I lean toward no.

Maybe a step back and look at technology in bowhunting in general. If there a line that should not be crossed with regards to technology, then who gets to decide that? Politicians? That is scary.

How far are we from a crossbow shooting 1,000 yards?
User avatar
Tigger
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: 01 12, 2015
Location: Minnesota

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Swede » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 11]

I agree with Jhg on this issue. The problem is the archery industry and bow shops do all they can to sell their inventions and products. Every year there are new products and the latest and greatest bow or arrow. Some tried hard to keep something as simple as lighted nocks illegal with no success. Many did not want 80% let-off bows, but they are legal now.
As much as I blame the archery industry for promoting bow hunting to where it today, the bigger problem is the celebrity class we have made of hunters that promote themselves to gain recognition and to sell to their admirers. It is so mainstream that Walmart carries a lot of their products. If you buy their stuff, you also will get a big bull elk seems to be the idea.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Swede » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 12]

I do not want to surprise anyone, but politicians make all of the rules that apply to hunting and fishing. They accept or reject what the game commission recommends. Politicians still respond to what their constituents request.
I wrote an e-mail to my State representative last week to complain about the disadvantage bow hunters with multiple points find themselves in here in Oregon if they want to continue to hold out for a quality hunt. He has invited me to call him this Thursday or Friday to discuss the matter. He has written back and said he will discuss the matter with the ODF&W. I can't say that if someone wants to see change in how things are managed that an e-mail or letter will change things for them, but I will say this: if you don't write you can just sit back an complain about the politicians. My state rep. is a Republican. He did not ask me about my political party affiliation. It does not matter. If you see real problems, be courteous but write.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Elkhunttoo » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 13]

Idaho changed the crossbow laws last year to allow visually impaired individuals to use a crossbow with a 4x (don’t quote me on that I’m going off of memory and don’t want to look it up right now) power scope. I have a brother in law who has very limited vision. Most people with his vision walk with a cane yet he is still out hiking the mountains. He talked to the fish and game here several times in the last 8 or so years. He has always wanted to bow hunt but he can’t focus and seeing bow sights were completely out of the question. He tried 2 years but his maximum range he was comfortable with was around 10 yards and that makes it really difficult.

When he started shopping for the crossbow and scope last year it took a lot of trips to the store and he heard tons of comments about how “anyone can cheat the system” he never said one word back to any of the workers or people around that were making comments but those people have no idea what he goes through on a daily basis. Even with the scope he can’t lean down into it and focus like I can. If he tries to focus it goes blurry and he has to start go back and forth with his eyes in and out of the scope. As far as I’m concerned I love to hunt and get out in the woods and I like seeing other people given that opportunity also.

Technology is going to continue to advance. Some things for the better and some for the worse. I’m sure when compound bows were starting to take off there were plenty of people against them. When I first started bow hunting aluminum arrows was all there was. Then carbon arrows came into play and I remember people saying they would never use them because blah blah blah…I haven’t bought aluminum arrows for a long long time and I’m sure I never will again.

Change is definitely a constant
Elkhunttoo
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1160
Joined: 05 23, 2016

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Lefty » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 14]

I wasnt very clear on my point. There are always people who complain about change and technologies.

saddlesore wrote:
Lefty wrote: Do I think some technology should be eliminated? Well I don't think a crossbow should be part of regular archery season. But that's me.

Some of us have no other choice when we have a replaced shoulder. Should we sit home because we cannot draw a conventional or compound bow.


i meant to be petty, snarky, and a bit sarcastic,,, I was offered a crossbow permit after my shoulder. I hunted the desert for years before my hip replacement, The only reason I started elk archery hunting,, I could draw a Compound, but not the Herters Recurve that I got when I was 13 years old ( my shoulder has been rebuild also)
As a society , a hunting community and so on where do we stop or start?

I quite like much of the technology. Forums and Websites, YouTube, all sorts of mapping, my compound box my Goretex boots, Thinsulate, binoculars, ATV, my heated pickup seats cheap phone service, trail cams, my CPAP, blood pressure and other medications,,,,
User avatar
Lefty
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 6926
Joined: 06 25, 2012
Location: Pocatello Idaho
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: H

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Jhg » 05 10, 2023 •  [Post 15]

There is some pretty funny irony in this thread. The following are what I think is dooming our sport and why if we don't put up some guide rails. None of it is meant as a personal judgement on anyone.
I don't mind change. I mind change that erodes our sport. Carbon arrows do not change anyones attitude about archery. But lighted nocks do. So do compound bows which have only two things visually in common with what is most peoples image of a bow, a string and an arrow. The rest is something else.
Add hunting films displaying the use of screen tech, cell cams, drones, etc and nobody can say hunting is much of a majestic activity anymore, by and large. They have made muzzle loading so easy an eight year old could do it- put that piece there this piece here close the breach pull trigger. There is no primitive in that and there is no primitive in anything most bowhunters use as a weapon anymore.
Trust me- If we lose the image battle, we lose the war.
So where and when will we draw the line? It is industry driving these changes. And in the end if we allow those forces to erode the premiss of archery hunting- hard, recognizable as it has been for generations back into pioneer times, simple gear. I am not afraid of anti's. Their message is so out there they never will be more than a blip. But the general non-hunting public who is largely uninformed and unaware of huntings legacy, is not a group we want against us. Swede is right. We should earn their trust and to do that we can start with self-regulating the gear we use so that archery does not appear to be something else: making it so easy anyone can do it with this gadget and that let off and the next leap in design.
Jhg
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 864
Joined: 07 18, 2018
Location: Colorado

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Swede » 05 11, 2023 •  [Post 16]

Unfortunately, I think the genie is out of the bottle on the technology matter. To go back would require the high-tech bow hunters, archery shops and archery industry to give up all they have gained.
If traditional bow hunters petitioned their representatives and game commission, it might be possible for the traditional bow hunter to get an extra week of hunting season if the hunter buys a traditional bow only tag. With a traditional tag they could not switch back when the regular archery season opened but could continue to bow hunt. Just a thought.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Jhg » 05 11, 2023 •  [Post 17]

My worry is public perception more than somehow we go back to recurves and longbows. I think the debate is valid in terms of what we might lose of we don't self-regulate changes to be more in-line with what bowhunting was. I am seeing "Red dot" sights for smoke poles in Colorado. Looks just like a scope and other than having no xpower, they are fiber optic in a can so to speak. Not trad at all.
Another notch chipping away at public sentiment supporting the "traditional" way of hunting.
Jhg
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 864
Joined: 07 18, 2018
Location: Colorado

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Elkhunttoo » 05 11, 2023 •  [Post 18]

That is an interesting thought Swede.

Giving some benefit’s to hunters that chose to use a more traditional weapon. I like that idea

If Idaho came out today and said I could start a week earlier in the archery season if I use a recurve or long bow over a compound I would truly be debating it.
Elkhunttoo
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1160
Joined: 05 23, 2016

Re: Advanced technology

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 05 11, 2023 •  [Post 19]

I mostly agree with a lot of what is being posted. That said.. it doesn’t really matter much which high tech stuff you mount on your cam bow, or, what kind of super duper laser sights you are allowed to emplace on your smoke pole, both these weapons ranges are limited to xxx yards by the very nature of their physical construction/ability. Many of you know that I’m a retired Army First Sergeant, but I still work with America’s finest citizens/Soldiers as a DEPT of DEF civilian. A good portion of these young men and women are not avid supporters of how shall I say this, a person needing to kill animals to provide sustenance for themselves and family in this day and age. One small ray of light is that they all respect the fact that I do my hunting and gathering with either a bow (mostly) or a muzzleloader dependent on the species, State hunted (short range weapons). I have never been queried about what or which non-traditional appurtenances I have mounted to my weapon's that surely detract from its primitiveness. Sometimes I think we create controversy, within our ranks… just to debate right from wrong based on our own personal beliefs. Just a thought gentleman.
User avatar
WapitiTalk1
 
Posts: 8732
Joined: 06 10, 2012
Location: WA State
First Name: RJ

Re: Advanced technology

Postby Swede » 05 12, 2023 •  [Post 20]

I do not dismiss what Jhg is saying about hi-tech apparatuses on primitive weapons, but I have never heard anyone complain either. I have heard complaints about hunting slobs and those that care nothing about offending others. Just remember that as a hunter you are the face that your friends and neighbors see when they think about hunting and all that means.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Advanced technology

Postby saddlesore » 05 12, 2023 •  [Post 21]

Swede wrote:I do not dismiss what Jhg is saying about hi-tech apparatuses on primitive weapons, but I have never heard anyone complain either. I have heard complaints about hunting slobs and those that care nothing about offending others. Just remember that as a hunter you are the face that your friends and neighbors see when they think about hunting and all that means.


I will add to Swede's comment. Remember, unless you hunt private land, all National Forest, BLM lands, and Wilderness areas are multi use unless official signage says differently. You will encounter muzzle loader, hunters archery hunters,, bear hunters, turkey hunters, grouse hunters, small game hunters, cattle and sheep on grazing permits.They all have as much right to be there as you do.
User avatar
saddlesore
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 11 07, 2015
Location: Colorado Springs,CO