What made you a better killer?

[7mmfan]

As opposed to a better hunter. I know some EXCELLENT hunters that are not good killers. They hunt hard, see game, etc... but rarely end up punching that tag.

I was one of those guys. I hunted hard, had encounters with animals, but rarely killed anything. I felt that I never had enough time, was always behind, always moving and wore out. I'd be up early, hike into my spots, hunt until 11 and head back to camp. At about 2:30 or 3:00 I'd head back out for the evening hunt. We always talked back at camp about how we would find tracks in places that weren't there that morning, or hear shots while we were eating lunch and mumble under our breath about lucky B____.

Then I changed one thing.

I changed ONE THING and started killing animals. A lot more animals.

I started packing a lunch and staying out ALL DAY. I didn't go back to camp for lunch anymore. I wasn't necessarily on my feet moving all day, in fact most of the time I would find a spot and sit down for a couple hours midday to eat lunch, shut my eyes for a few minutes, just rest my brain. But I was in the woods. Numerous times I've had to hurriedly put my lunch away, or leave it there all together to shoot an animal. I became the guy firing those shots at 12:30 in the afternoon when all the animals were supposed to be bedded down. That one change made me a much better hunter/killer.

What one thing made you a better killer?

(Midday, mid-October, sitting down to eat lunch when I spotted him on his feet)

[Jhg]

The day I decided to take the shot that was there rather than wait for the better one that never came.

[7mmfan]

The day I decided to take the shot that was there rather than wait for the better one that never came.

That's a great one. That can be confusing for new hunters. It usually takes a few years of missed opportunities to get up to speed on it. And lots of practice and becoming very proficient with your weapon.

[Tigger]

Analyzing all of the inputs when it is "go" time. Some people freeze and make the wrong move or no move at all. Knowing animal body language is key. Is he going to bolt? Does he know you are there? Where is the wind? Can he see you? Are there other elk to be concerned about?

Oh, his cows called and he looked at them. MOVE NOW to get in position as he is going to go back to them....PFffffffffffffftttTHWACK. CRASH....Bull down.

[saddlesore]

Empty freezer was a big motivator

[wawhitey]

I think when it comes down to it, for most folks, the basic answer would be making mistakes. But you have to first be able to admit you screwed up somehow, so you can larn from it. Some peoples egos prevent that. Ive made a ton of mistakes, bad calls, whatever that led to missed opportunities. I still tend to screw the pooch on a pretty regular basis. But every time i do i take a critical look at what my thought proccess was and how i screwed up, and carry that with me afterward so that i hopefully wont repeat the same mistake twice. Hell, at the rate i screw up, i should be a perfect flawless killing machine pretty soon.

[six]

I think when it comes down to it, for most folks, the basic answer would be making mistakes. But you have to first be able to admit you screwed up somehow, so you can larn from it. Some peoples egos prevent that. Ive made a ton of mistakes, bad calls, whatever that led to missed opportunities. I still tend to screw the pooch on a pretty regular basis. But every time i do i take a critical look at what my thought proccess was and how i screwed up, and carry that with me afterward so that i hopefully wont repeat the same mistake twice. Hell, at the rate i screw up, i should be a perfect flawless killing machine pretty soon.

Not just for elk hunting.

[saddlesore]

I found just stumbling around blindly until a really stupid elk walks by is very productive. All this thinking planning and second thoughts give me a headache.

[7mmfan]

I found just stumbling around blindly until a really stupid elk walks by is very productive. All this thinking planning and second thoughts give me a headache.

I am a master planner. When I step into the woods in the morning I know exactly how my day is going to work out. It usually lasts about 37 seconds. Two times in all my hunting career have I ever had a plan work out exactly the way I thought it might. Both ended up with dead animals asap, but I still stood there shaking my head in disbelief that it actually worked out.

[Lefty]

My dad started me on my way of being a master killer, but I also had a neighbor who was on the Olympic archery team and currently holds a 30 caliber 600 yd perfect score record of some sort. He taught me to shoot rifle and archery better .With a shotgun I wasn't taught your standard method of swinging through and pulling the trigger I was taught Point shooting so basically I could get on game quicker than most people.

I also hung around a lot of hot dog really good fur Trappers and tons of little things about wildlife that you can learn.

Spending a lot of time in the woods and on the Trap line making use of skills that I've learned

[wawhitey]

I found just stumbling around blindly until a really stupid elk walks by is very productive. All this thinking planning and second thoughts give me a headache.

I am a master planner. When I step into the woods in the morning I know exactly how my day is going to work out. It usually lasts about 37 seconds. Two times in all my hunting career have I ever had a plan work out exactly the way I thought it might. Both ended up with dead animals asap, but I still stood there shaking my head in disbelief that it actually worked out.

Thats me, every day i hunt. I know exactly where ill go, what ill do, until maybe by mid morning the plan goes out the window, usually to wind factors. Then its all freestyle. Had one perfect hunt like you described. Friend called me said cougar was closing in a couple days and he really wanted to get a cat, lets go cougar hunting. I told him i knew just the place, meet me here at 0 dark thirty and well hike up to this spot and ill call. Went right up there, dropped down below him and started calling, and 30 minutes later he shoots a lion sneaking in on me. Couldnt believe it actually happened exactly according to plan. Really it was a 1:1,000,000 odds scenario.

[Lefty]

Really it was a 1:1,000,000 odds scenario.

I hope you didnt tell him.

You look like a god if you pull stuff like that off!!!

[Indian Summer]

I became a better killer when I did two things. I learned how to quit thinking like a human. I also learned to not think about time and create pressure and hunting every single day the same. Elk aren’t in a hurry. Neither are the birds. We shouldn’t be either.

Why do we jump out of the sleeping bag on day one like there’s a snake inside and three days later we want to stay in there like there’s snake outside waiting to bite us?

How can we say I’m not shooting anything smaller than a 5 point for 10 months and in 3 days be saying I’m killing the first legal elk I see?

It’s a mental game. Start thinking more like an animal than a hunter on a schedule and things will be totally different. More enjoyable and more successful.

Animals don’t have a thought process like us. They don’t experience anxiety or a lack of patience. No sense of urgency as a part of normal daily life. We undermine our own actions by making decisions based on thoughts and feelings like that. Emotions. In other words we make bad decisions because we are in a hurry and we fear we’re going to miss an opportunity if we don’t jump.

But you can’t be in a hurry. That’s probably my number one lesson in a nutshell. When I see elk my heart rate increases like anyone else. But I’ve hunted with lots of guys who said omg there they are let’s go and started jamming things in their pack. I used to do the same thing. Not anymore. I watch them. I pay attention to every detail of what they are doing. Exactly how many are there? Are they angling their way uphill or down? What are they heading toward? A saddle? A flat in the bottom? Water? Where at in the herd is the bull located? In front or pushing from behind? Is he uphill or downslope from the main herd? When they bed he might be in the same position. Good to know if I plan on stalking in for a shot which involves losing sight of them for awhile. I look at anything I can to try to predict where they will be by the time I get over there.

Then I start thinking about exactly how I’m going to approach them. What am I going to use for cover? I’ll look at Onx Maps or my topo also trying to determine what they are doing and what I’m going to do. Is this a situation where I do actually want to make this happen right now or today or am I going to be in a position to wait on them to return to the spot tvst evening? Or do I actually need to have a plan for morning and be in a great position bright and early?

After I get that all figured out then I’ll make a move. Maybe. Maybe I won’t. The point is I am doing just like an elk or any animal would do. Taking life one minute at a time and being aware of the present moment and not much else. Using my instincts.

Thinking about our hunt and our goals instead of what’s going on right now makes us say things to ourselves like “This is day 4. My hunt was like the blink of an eye and if the second half goes as fast and uneventful as the first half I’ll be going home with an unpunched tag”

Thinking anything negative like that is not good for your mental game. Instead I picture a bull bedded somewhere half asleep in a place I would go if someone was trying to kill me. There wouldn’t be much of a thought process for the bull though. He’d be where he followed lead cows and older bulls when he was a little guy. Of course the weather would be a factor in where I laid down for the day too. Then I tell myself….. somewhere within a 3/4 mile radius of where I’m standing there are elk. Where are they and why? I actually tell myself during the off season when I’m at home or at work…. Right now there’s a bull somewhere chewing his cud and growing antlers for what might be the last time. They are not ghosts! They are out there!!! Haha!

Over the years of guiding one thing you learn for your own good and the good of the hunters is how to motivate them. How to be a coach. How to keep their confidence up and also push them without going to far. It’s not always easy. You should be doing the same thing to yourself. One of the things I said to clients all the time was “Elk don’t know if it’s the first day of your hunt or the last and they certainly don’t care. An elk falls over dead on day 7 just as fast as he would have fallen over on day one. So do your best to hunt every day like it’s the first day and you like do much better.” It’s true and I still tell myself that all the time.

I can tell you exactly how I got to be able to stay relaxed. I was outfitting and guiding. In Montana that meant I had 6 weeks of archery season and 5 weeks of rifle. That was a lifetime of elk hunting for some people in one year. In bow season I knew I had that long gun season ahead so I didn’t care at all if I killed anything today or tomorrow. I just hunted. It was a whole new way of thinking. The difference was amazing. Way less mistakes and much more fun. Very peaceful I might add.

I did develop one other ritual. A Cardinal rule. Being out hunting at all times as long as there’s enough light to shoot. I’ve seen guys kill bulls right off of the horse trail on day 1 before they ever saw base camp or where they were packing in to. One time after a hunt on pack out day we were weighing loads after breakfast and getting them into panniers to load onto the mules and out of nowhere BOOOOooom! I had a family in camp that week. A 13 year old boy and his parents. Mom did didn’t hunt. She helped in the cook tent and enjoyed camp. The kid and his dad hunted together all week fully guided. The kid had taken a short walk through the trees behind camp by himself. As soon as he climbed up on “The Rock”, there was a bull standing just below him. So he shot it! Amazing! Talk about a last minute elk. His last minute was the night before. But I guess it wasn’t!

One of the most inspiring things to me is when someone in camp kills an elk on the last day. At that point what was the better to to be out giving it hell, the first day or the last? It ain’t over til it’s over.

Those are my things. Never in a hurry and never in camp unless I’m sleeping. Younger hunters will take awhile before they can truly slow down. And it’s not easy being out hunting all the time like that. I also tell myself that in a few weeks and the months to come I’d give anything for a long day of elk hunting right now.

[Indian Summer]

Yes you can type long posts using the microphone! Long winded! Haha!

But those things are gospel to me. They are my keys to consistent success.

[7mmfan]

IS, you covered a lot of ground there, but my one take away, is SLOW DOWN. And you're right, of course. I've blown a few great opportunities by going to fast, not being patient. The largest bull I've ever seen in the woods was bedded with a group of cows in a thick patch of young pines, I knew just where he was, and where he was likely to go that evening. I had a great vantage point to watch from and move from when they did move. Instead I chose to rush in and try to call him away from his cows. He knew what was up, they disappeared into hells hole and I never saw him again.

I've also been laying on a ridge in my self made shooters nest with 5 bulls inside 200 yards of me, but could only see the spike. Instead of being patient and waiting for the other bulls to stand and present themselves, I shot the spike. He sure tasted good though

Slowing down, having patience, and observing the WHOLE situation, not just what is right in front of you at that moment is a learned skill. I'm 38 this year, I feel that I'm finally getting it after over 20 years of elk hunting.

[Indian Summer]

When people say slow down they mostly mean the pace at which you cover ground. What I’m referring to is slowing down every aspect of your hunt. Slow down your lifestyle. Slow your metabolism! Lol

I’ve had a few guys freaking out because they were standing there with their packs on ready to fly and I was still sitting on the ground staring through the spotter. Calm down.

I guess this would be an appropriate time to tell the story of the big bull and the little bull standing on a hill looking down at the herd of cows.

[Swede]

To my way of thinking being a better hunter is part of being a better killer. You can't shoot what you can't find. I could piggy-back on what I. S. wrote but to keep it short, I would say it boils down to patience, perseverance, and Experience.

[Armed_Hiker]

This is going to be my ninth season as a adult on-set hunter and I found that I am more successful punching tags when I go alone. I started hunting with buddies who like the social/camp aspect of hunting (which I also enjoy) but when I go out by myself I am less distracted with the camping part. I have yet to kill an elk and this year I talked with my long time friend, who I normally go with, to let him know I wont be hunting with him. Not a fun conversation - but as I mature as a hunter I know that everyone who hunts has different goals....mine are to hike to the top of the mountain and kill a bull rather than head back to camp early and drink beer.

All that has been said about persistence and patience is true and its a lot easier to be those things when the other guys in camp are on the same page.

[Indian Summer]

This is going to be my ninth season as a adult on-set hunter and I found that I am more successful punching tags when I go alone. I started hunting with buddies who like the social/camp aspect of hunting (which I also enjoy) but when I go out by myself I am less distracted with the camping part. I have yet to kill an elk and this year I talked with my long time friend, who I normally go with, to let him know I wont be hunting with him. Not a fun conversation - but as I mature as a hunter I know that everyone who hunts has different goals....mine are to hike to the top of the mountain and kill a bull rather than head back to camp early and drink beer.

All that has been said about persistence and patience is true and its a lot easier to be those things when the other guys in camp are on the same page.

I hunt alone. Always! But I prefer company in camp. I don’t care what kind of schedule my partner runs. I can’t help myself from exercising my sarcastic humor though if I find out they were in camp with some daylight left. I usually have one drink after dinner while I’m looking at topo maps. But I don’t bother them and how they hunt doesn’t affect me.

Why don’t you just tell your friend you’re shifting gears for your daily plan. Will he hunt solo? I wouldn’t be so quick to give up a dependable partner.

[Swede]

I often have someone in camp, but always hunt alone. I don't care when they get up or go to bed. I am not mother, but it would not work for me to have some hunters drinking and making load noise all night.

[Armed_Hiker]

In 100% agreement that camp is better with company. I've made great friendships and learned to hunt from some amazing mentors at elk camp. If the guy who gets back to camp with daylight left whips up an a tasty meal he gets off easy on the ribbing

In the case of my buddy, I'm going to hunt the archery season by myself and then tag along during his rife hunt in October. More time in the woods for me, but wont feel like I'm missing out on my season if he wants to have a slow morning. Win/Win. Who knows, we both might become elk killers this year!

[Billy Goat]

this is one of the better threads.

IS had very good feedback, as have others.

I did a guided hunt once in 2012 after 3 years of no success. when the opportunity arose, it was a bugling bull, about 300 yards downhill from us that wasnt coming to us in mixed timber. The guide had me RUN downhill following him. before we took off running, he said "stay right behind me, dont break a stick, dont kick a rock, and BE READY TO KILL HIM WHEN WE GET THERE". I did exactly as instructed (best I could) - that 5x5 is now on the wall, 35 yard shot. crazy.

lesson - BE READY TO KILL IT when the shot presents itself.

Several times I've had opportunities that presented themselves and I wasnt ready.

[7mmfan]

lesson - BE READY TO KILL IT when the shot presents itself.

Several times I've had opportunities that presented themselves and I wasn't ready.

This is a big one. I'm sure we have all missed opportunities because we weren't prepared for them to present themselves. Know your gear, practice with it in awkward positions. When shooting a rifle in the woods, you rarely have that perfect rest to shoot off of (unless your IS and build a long range shooting platform on a mountain in WY ) so practice shooting off your pack, off shooting sticks, off stumps or logs, braced against a tree, free hand.

One drill we do is to place milk jugs out in clear cuts at unknown distances and out of view of the shooter. Then the shooter walks the road looking. He has 10 seconds to set up and shoot once the jug is spotted. The shooter has to decide at that moment if they shoot free hand, with a rest, what rest? Sticks? Bipod on rifle? stump pile? Pack on ground? It's a fun game but is pretty realistic and definitely creates a mindset of knowing your gear and how to use it in different situations.

For me, when I get in the woods and I'm actually hunting, my gun is almost always in hand. It's not hanging on my shoulder or strapped to a pack. I want it in hand for the opportunity that might pop up. Every hunting situation is different though obviously. If I'm hunting wide open big country, it's probably on my gun bearer, which I can have it in hand in seconds. I have a friend that hunts all over the place with this rifle strapped to the back of his pack . Just this last weekend we hunted together and I asked him what his plan was if a deer or bear was to jump up right in front of him? "I expect you to shoot it!", was his answer. Well, I'm ok with that I suppose. He had some answer about it was more comfortable to carry and he could glass better. That's great, but it won't do you any good behind you when that buck jumps out of the brush at 20 yards.

[>>>---WW---->]

Every time I see a post like this one, I think of Don Kilmer. Don was always accepted as one of the best bass fishermen in our little southern Illinois town where I grew up. He went fishing every single day. No, he probably wasn't all that much better than anyone else. He just put in the time needed to be the best around.

So, I have always figured if you want to be better, you need to get off the computer, stop day dreaming and reading all those magazines, and get out in the woods and burn some shoe leather. That's what worked for me.

[MidwestHunter]

I am one of the guys that is consistently punching tags regardless of the species, while others in our camp/family are saying "he has all the luck".

The difference is that when I have a misplaced shot or make the wrong move, I analyze the situation afterwards, and make a plan to rectify anything that was either a failure for me as a hunter or an equipment failure and I fix or correct that factor.

I also try not to get set in my ways. I use my experiences to guide me through the next, but understand that each experience is slightly different and may need to have actions adjusted slightly to be successful.

[saddlesore]

Best thing I ever did was to slow down and then slow down some more.

[Swede]

Best thing I ever did was to slow down and then slow down some more.

You will not get any better advice here than that. There is a time to move but it is used too often because we are impatient. I have messed up far more from being impatient than I have from waiting too long.

[saddlesore]

When you enter your hunt area, take your sling off of your rifle. Not only will it stop that annoying little squeak that elk can hear for 500 yards, but your rifle will be in your hands when you need it.

[MidwestHunter]

Best thing I ever did was to slow down and then slow down some more.

You will not get any better advice here than that. There is a time to move but it is used too often because we are impatient. I have messed up far more from being impatient than I have from waiting too long.

Good advice, I need to be more attentive to slow down during elk hunting. Sometimes freezing up and being too slow can be just as devastating, probably more so for treestand whitetail

[7mmfan]

When you enter your hunt area, take your sling off of your rifle. Not only will it stop that annoying little squeak that elk can hear for 500 yards, but your rifle will be in your hands when you need it.

I started doing this a long time ago. I feel that for me, just having the rifle in my hands makes me hunt better, vs. Just ambling around the woods with my rifle hanging on my shoulder.

[saddlesore]

My wife telling me if I didn't bring home an elk or deer, I would be eating a lot of chicken

[Jhg]

I don't use a sling to carry. I use it to lock in my shot.

Seeing this made me a better killer:

0AEBF169-A801-4B03-871C-F0EB916B0F8D.jpeg (149.84 KiB) Viewed 2017 times

[saddlesore]

Yep, I took my sling off when I entered the hunt area and put it in my pack