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Elk scouting

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Elk scouting

Postby Wapiti » 07 11, 2022 •  [Post 1]

Well we have really started kicking up the scouting efforts. Learning new areas this year. Walking all the game trails to see where they all lead to. Most trails connect feeding to bedding areas with stops at water holes along the way.

What are some of the key features you guys look for while scouting elk ?
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 11, 2022 •  [Post 2]

Trails and water holes. I will look over a good saddle in the right area. I like actively used water hole near a bedding area, where multiple trails come together. No special reason. It just sems like a good place to ambush an elk. :D

I am not planning to go on a separate scouting trip this summer due to the gas prices. I plan to just leave early for my hunt and add a few days to my vacation that way.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Lefty » 07 11, 2022 •  [Post 3]

I was out today, and yesterday, mostly for something to do. Set up three cameras. .
I did mark a new place as a calling location a little fir grove above some lots of quakies,,

What am I looking for?


Anything new, something different. Another puzzle piece?


today I climbed this ridge to a location I had never been within 100 yards of. Incredible view,, And cell reception
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Elkhunttoo » 07 11, 2022 •  [Post 4]

With gas prices and knowing my area fairly well from the last few seasons I plan on just one trip before the season to hang tree stands…I live fairly close to my area but it’s still $75 bucks to go so I will just wait as bad as it hurts. :(
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Indian Summer » 07 12, 2022 •  [Post 5]

Only two things get me excited. A place that smells really heavily like a barnyard. It’s a spot that multiple groups of elk use. Unlike an area that only holds elk once every couple weeks, when one band of elk moves on its not long until another moves in. The ground is beat up. There are beds in the tore up dirt or pine needles. And it just stinks with the permanent odor of elk.

The other is a water source waaaay ip high. Water where there is no other water. There are always up high where it’s fairly dry. Often elk will drop down to water. But if I can find a place where they don’t have to do that it’s common for them to have a route coming directly to and from their bedding and feeding area. It’s a gold mine.

If I had to pick a third thing it would be an overlooked spot that holds elk close to the road.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Tigger » 07 13, 2022 •  [Post 6]

Old rubs. Especially from different years. If I see them, that tells me bulls will likely be in this area during archery season.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Indian Summer » 07 13, 2022 •  [Post 7]

Tigger wrote:Old rubs. Especially from different years. If I see them, that tells me bulls will likely be in this area during archery season.

Every time someone says that I think back to 2002. I was in an area I knew well. My outfitting area. I came through a nice bench I’d never walked through before. The place was destroyed! About 150 rubs. Every other tree was shredded. Of course I went back there. During all phases of the rut. I never crossed paths with a single elk there. Left me scratching my head.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 13, 2022 •  [Post 8]

I find rubs along game trails and in bedding areas. I think the others are pretty random.
I.S. was writing about liking places where multiple elk herds pass through an area. That place is likely to have a lot more rubs than where I hunt. That would make rubs more encouraging. Multiple rubs above a ranch with large alfalfa fields would be a good indicator of consistent use. It would be a good indicator of well-fed elk. :D
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby >>>---WW----> » 07 13, 2022 •  [Post 9]

Why are you scratching you head Joe? Most likely the rubs you found were made prior to the season when the bulls were trying to shed velvet.

I believe there are two types of rubs. (1) type is when they are trying to get rid of velvet as the antlers harden and (2) is when they are close to the rut period and may use rubbing as a display or building muscle prior to rut.

I'm guessing the rubs you found were early velvet shedding rubs. Probably made during late summer
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 13, 2022 •  [Post 10]

>>>---WW----> wrote:I believe there are two types of rubs. (1) type is when they are trying to get rid of velvet as the antlers harden and (2) is when they are close to the rut period and may use rubbing as a display or building muscle prior to rut.


Good point. Also, there are places where elk hang out at night and leave very in the morning.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Indian Summer » 07 13, 2022 •  [Post 11]

>>>---WW----> wrote:Why are you scratching you head Joe? Most likely the rubs you found were made prior to the season when the bulls were trying to shed velvet.

I believe there are two types of rubs. (1) type is when they are trying to get rid of velvet as the antlers harden and (2) is when they are close to the rut period and may use rubbing as a display or building muscle prior to rut.

I'm guessing the rubs you found were early velvet shedding rubs. Probably made during late summer

I was there scouting during the summer. They were rubs from the year before. So I figured at some point between late August and the end of September there would be some activity there. None. Not that season or the following ones. ???
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 13, 2022 •  [Post 12]

I see why you are scratching your head. Not seeing elk is one thing, but no more rubs is a different matter. I am left guessing. Could it have been a migration thing or industrial activity that moved the elk to your area for just one time? I have seen places where elk used to be consistently but no longer come around that area. Something changed.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby saddlesore » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 13]

I believe all those rubs are earlier than Sept. I have never encountered bulls at those locations during mid September muzzle loader season. Same with wallows. It is about like scouting in the timber in July and expecting to find the elk there two months later. Scouting for me was to get to know the country and finding escape routes , places to ambush elk and feeding areas.
Scouting a few days before season, unless it is sitting somewhere and glassing, is more likely to run the elk out of their safety area than not.More often than not, it does more damage than it helps. Then again, I don't know much about elk hunting.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby >>>---WW----> » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 14]

Great points Vince! We see it every year, especially during the rifle seasons here in Colorado. The sea of orange arrives anywhere from a few days to a week prior to the opening day of the hunt. And the first thing they do is scout out the area. Imagine several hundred hunters invading the woods a few days ahead of the season. Then they wonder where the elk are when opening day finally comes. Elk aren't stupid!
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 15]

Saddlesore and WW, I think there is something wrong with your assessment. Joe said he re-visited the area again "during all phases of the rut". That should extend from the early rubbing and jousting to determine dominance, to the end of September. Maybe it would go beyond that, but regardless; the elk never returned. Certainly, Joe would have not been left scratching his head if he just arrived late. That would be self-evident. It does not matter how long Joe hung around. He could have come back the next year and made that same determination.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby saddlesore » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 16]

I don't think my assessment is wrong. It actually makes my point that seeing rubs have nothing to do with the presence of elk. It only means elk were there at some time. "all phases of the rut" does not include when velvet is being rubbed off mid August. I don't think rubbing off velvet has anything to do with the rut. It's like walking into an aspen grove and seeing the first 6 feet of the trees black with scars from elk eating the bark. That is after all the grass is covered with snow and the elk have long since gone. If one thinks there is an abundance of elk there, it is akin to thinking there is an abundance of elk when they see rubs.

All kind of reason make elk choose to go elsewhere. Mostly it is from humans invading their habitat. Doing that scouting 2-3 days before season is one of the big culprits.

Several years ago Colorado DOW decided there were too many elk in a big area of NW CO. Some they issued a lot of OTC cow tags. After 2-3 years, any elk that were left drifted over the divide to the west. 4-5 years ago I went up into that country where I use to hunt just to camp and fish.We found 1 elk track and it followed the trail about 4 miles up over the top and then it went down the other side
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 17]

The following is a concise statement stating when the rut begins and ends. I believe the quote came from Leupold. I just cut and pasted it. "The elk rut season is from late August through October, with some breeding activity continuing into November. Male elk, or elk bulls, are much more aggressive during this time. The peak of the elk rut season is when the most elk breeding activity occurs. During the elk rut season, there is lots of bugling, cow elk communication, and elk movement."

This is consistent with what Thomas and Toweill documented in "Elk o North America Ecology and Management. The full rutting season begins with removal or the velvet from a bull's antlers and extends through the breeding period. A part of the rutting season is the determination of which bull(s) will be the main breeders and which will be kept at bay.

Obviously, this is the time frame Joe had to be referring to if he covered all phases of the rut.

Even in the early hunting season I do not answer a bull in the nearby forest. Dominance has been established or the bull in the woods may just know he is not big enough to take on a mature bull. They often bugle before coming into water to see if it is safe to approach the water hole. If I bugle back, they go somewhere else. It is all part of the rut.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby saddlesore » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 18]

I have never heard bulls bugle or seen them breed in velvet. In fact most are very cautious about damaging antlers in velvet. My wife and I spent about ten years up in Yellowstone photographing and observing elk from mid Sept 15 thru 25-26th or so before the big fire. There was seldom any activity prior to that which is why we quit going earlier.I would not put much faith in that documentation. If following that idea, rut begins when elk start to grow antlers and are in velvet. Some rutting ( breeding) occurs into November because there are always some elk that did not get bred in the first estrus.

Per the American Heritage Dictionary. Rut is the cyclically reocurring condition of sexual excitement and reproductive activity in male animals such as deer

Rut , prelude to breeding, begins when the day light hours begins to lessen considerably. That curve changes drastically in September, which is why peak rut is after mid September. Location bugles rarely start when elk are in velvet. Mid August or so, blood supply is diminished into the antlers an the elk start to rub it off. More than likely because it itches or feels different. It has nothing to do with the rut. It is on par with the elk crapping loose poop early in the spring and it hardens into pellets as the summer progresses.It is just the everyday life of an elk.

If shedding velvet is part of the rut,then why do deer shed their velvet in mid to late August and the rut is not until late November. Must be a bunch of real horny deer running around for 2 months or so.Ungulates breed at a certain time of the year,so their off spring have the best feed available from the mother and will be weaned by late fall.Obviously an elk's gestation period is longer than a deer.

Sorry,but have to run up the BS flag on that. Document or not
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 19]

Indian Summer said he went to his area "During all phases of the rut"
There are 5 recognized stages of the rut. The first stage is commonly recognized as occurring in late August and begins with removing of the velvet from the bull's antlers.
It does not matter as Joe would have seen the evidence on the ground even if the elk arrived and rubbed before he got there.

"I have never heard bulls bugle or seen them breed in velvet." Vince
This has absolutely no Berring on the subject. The bulls never came back, and Joe can't explain why. If someone can explain why, then we can read something relevant. I have seen similar situations and I can't always be sure why, but I know they did not come and go before I arrived. Sometimes I think I know. i.e., Logging or heavy cattle grazing have changed the habitat are two that quickly come to mind.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby saddlesore » 07 14, 2022 •  [Post 20]

Swede. Go back and read my post .Especially,about deer shedding their velvet in August and not in rut until late November. Joe can scratch his head all he wants and you can believe what you want, but you are wrong about this. I have probably chased elk twice as long as Joe has and I have lived in elk country for the past 46 years.I don't come here 2-3 times a year. I have not missed an elk season in those 46 years. Now dragging an oxygen hose around this coming year might be my last, if I do make it .

I took a young fellow on this forum and showed him where elk were. I didn't show him rubs, or wallows that had not been used in a month, but I did show him elk.The first bull he ever saw in the wild. I packed him and his father in for a hunt. He missed several shots, but one year, his hunting companion killed an elk.The last year he hunted here, he kept trying to get close enough to a nice 6x bull. I went in rifle season and killed that bull. I killed four bulls within a half mile of that location. I have directed others on this forum to hunt locations they got into elk the first day. I have similar results on another forum I visit and I don't charge money for the help.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Tigger » 07 18, 2022 •  [Post 21]

I would say the rub here (pun fully intended) is that you two knuckleheads are using different definitions of the rut. Swede went to the textbooks and Vince is using the commonly held definition. When you are BSing about elk hunting and mention the rut to your buddy, you are talking that magical 3 week period from mid to late September, maybe sliding a little into Oct depending on various factors. If you were a scientist documenting things, you have a different definition. So while Swede is technically correct according to the textbook, Vince is correct according to how we all talk.

Then again, who knows if Joe even knows what a rub is? :o
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby >>>---WW----> » 07 18, 2022 •  [Post 22]

The best way I know of to scout for elk is to find a good vantage point and get out the glass and forget about finding sign. (Sign only tells you where they were, not where they are). Unless you actually see an ek squatting down dropping mountain olives and fertilizing the soil, sign doesn't mean all that much.

By glassing you minimalize your impact in the hunting area and save a lot of shoe leather, Look for cows not necessarily bulls. Where the cows are in late July and August is where the bulls will be come September!
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Swede » 07 18, 2022 •  [Post 23]

Indian Summer wrote:Of course I went back there. During all phases of the rut.


I have to admit to studying elk from the "book" as well as in the field. But in this case, I keyed in on what Joe wrote above. I know that bull elk, after they rub the velvet off their antlers until the end of the rut, are like a teenager after seeing a young lady in a short skirt. In one way or the other it is all rut. A good elk hunter has at least a basic understanding of the different phases of the rut and adjust their tactics accordingly.
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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Jhg » 07 18, 2022 •  [Post 24]

Indian Summer wrote:
Tigger wrote:Old rubs. Especially from different years. If I see them, that tells me bulls will likely be in this area during archery season.

Every time someone says that I think back to 2002. I was in an area I knew well. My outfitting area. I came through a nice bench I’d never walked through before. The place was destroyed! About 150 rubs. Every other tree was shredded. Of course I went back there. During all phases of the rut. I never crossed paths with a single elk there. Left me scratching my head.


I think about rubs three ways:

1- velvet rubs. Pre-rut staging and bachelor strength testing. These are what I consider "summer behavior" and do not link them to archery except if its early season the bull(s) may not be too far off.

2- pre-psychosis rubs. The bulls are beginning to feel changes and though not frustrated yet they have a good deal of impatience and enjoy destroying things.

3- Hangin' with the girls, but no joy rubs. I think this type rub is what the above are. I watched a 5x rub every tree he felt was worth his energy, while he waited for the cows he was with to catch up with his own chemical changes. If the cows fed a long time in a small area, the rub number increased in proportion. The bull was "all dressed up and no where to go".
I re-visited that area and those rubs were everywhere. You might think it was a great bull area. Not so. It could be ten years before that scenario played again on that bench, if ever.

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Re: Elk scouting

Postby Thegreatwapiti » 07 18, 2022 •  [Post 25]

Jhg wrote:Hangin' with the girls, but no joy rubs.


Definitely the worst kind.
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