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Hunting Plans

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Hunting Plans

Postby Swede » 05 26, 2022 •  [Post 1]

After reading posts on the Wyoming 2022 Hunt announcement thread, I have been thinking. When, where and how could I effectively use a prescription hunt plan from Headin' West Hunt Consulting.
I do not know but have heard the hunt plan costs a little over $2,000. Indian Summer can let us know if he wishes.

If I wanted to hunt an area where he offers plans, it would be most helpful if I could amortize the cost of the plan over several hunts by using it for multiple seasons. A tag once in every ten years is far less valuable than one for every two or three years. Things change on the ground and elk habits can change plus I would be updating everything annually if I hunted the area. After a few seasons, my knowledge of the area and how to hunt it would replace a written plan. Getting a plan in my 40s or early 50s would be best.

A hunt plan would save me days and probably weeks of scouting time. It would save my taking a week off work to go early to scout and if I wanted to set out cameras it would save me a trip.
There would be parts of a plan that it would take seasons to learn. On my first hunt I would be more likely to be productive if I was not very familiar with the area and the critters there. As time went on the value of the plan would diminish, because things always change on the ground. I have made several changes in my hunting plans over the years because things do not stay the same most places. A wilderness should be more stable unless a big fire came through. To my way of thinking a hunt plan would be best where I could get a tag and go hunting right away.

The way I would use the plan would be by having a hunting partner share the cost and going in just two or three days before the start of my hunt. If I have to go in for an earlier scout trip and do a lot of work to sort it out, it is not detailed enough.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Old school » 05 27, 2022 •  [Post 2]

I agree wholeheartedly with you Swede. If I was hunting Wyoming with no prior knowledge or without a partner who knew what they were doing, it would be a no brainer to call Joe and get a hunt plan.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Indian Summer » 05 27, 2022 •  [Post 3]

Ha ha Swede you’ve been thinking about me. I’m flattered. i’ll try to answer a few of your questions. First of all you are correct in that a hunt plan is more valuable if you can use it more often. I actually sell them quite a bit cheaper to guys who have limited quota tags for a unit they may only hunt one time in their life. If a group of hunters can hunt every year then your way of thinking is probably correct. The plan is actually cheaper per year. But from another perspective as tags get harder to get if a guy bought and saved preference points for three or four years then his license becomes a lot more valuable. At that point an insurance policy on the long awaited license becomes more valuable. You can’t afford to go out there and spend half of your hunt just learning your way around and hoping to find out how the elk use the area.

The other thing to consider is anything that you do learn in a single season is based on the weather patterns for that particular year. I’ve hunted my areas during wet years, dry years. Droughts. Years when the weather was downright hot or mild, and years where it was absolutely freezing. Some years I had lots of company and others for some reason there wasn’t nearly as much pressure. Until you find that elk under all of those conditions and see how they reacted and where they ended up at the end you don’t truly know the area. Like most hunters I’ve walked away from an area thinking OK I have this figured out. Next year is going to be great! Then I’ve come back the following year and found out that based on the current conditions everything I learned the previous year was pretty much worthless. Elk can definitely throw us curveballs. It’s safe to assume that the harder you work in the further and higher you go the better chances of finding undisturbed elk. But I’ve also seen where that strategy turned out to be a bust. That could happen on drought years. Elk do what they need to do to survive in a year like that it’s amazing how low and close to the roads they can be. But even when they are that low if you don’t have a game plan you can still struggle. They’re not stupid and when they are low they’re wary and in places that are hard to approach. They can also be pretty nocturnal in those scenarios.

So you are correct that by hunting an area long-term you are constantly updating what you know about the area. My plans always have a wide spectrum of information. Plan a is usually the one that takes hunters the furthest and is enough to keep them busy for the entire week. But I’m a realist so I always have options for the guy who needs to sleep in one day but still wants to get out for a half a day. Or for the guy who just needs a change of scenery and wants to take a drive and hit and run a spot that he can get to and effectively hunt in a single day. There are high routes, low routes, the higher route always have an option in case a hunter gets busy along the way, or tired, and needs to cut the route short. But make no mistake the plan as a whole is based on experience under varying conditions. Also… members of a group aren’t all created equal. I have to have strategies for the younger more aggressive guy in the party but also for the older guy, maybe his father, who wants to get into elk without killing himself. A plan is usually more than hunters can possibly carry out and one hunt. Remember I use horses so I can cover a lot of ground. It could take hunters 2 to 3 years or more just to utilize the entire plan. The wise thing to do would be to look at the current conditions while you are there and use the parts of the plan that seem to work best for those conditions.

I could go on but if I don’t go out and cut the grass soon I’m gonna have to ask the neighbor to come over and make hay out of it. Lol feel free to fire away with any other questions you might have. Oh and by the way I do have some areas where I’ve narrowed down about 8 square miles to about two or three trees that would be good for a tree stand. Just so you know buddy, I think about you sometimes too. Lol
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Swede » 05 27, 2022 •  [Post 4]

In the whole scheme of things, I see Joes plans having a valuable place. I see them as a poor man's guide service, or for the newer hunter that just prefers to do it himself or herself but lack the experience to really know the area being hunted. If two or three guys go together, then the plans are a bargain when you consider everything else you have invested in a hunt.

I enjoyed hunting with RJ a few years ago, but the Lord is going to have to work on me to get me to leave Oregon for a stinkin elk.: lol:
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby 7mmfan » 05 27, 2022 •  [Post 5]

I've been considering buying one of IS's plans for a while now. I have a pretty dedicated group of 4 guys that would all hunt in WY together and we would split the cost. With the cost of fuel, the cost of the plan is easily negated by what it would cost to make a scouting trip or two for us back there to learn the ground.

My plan has always been to buy a plan in an area that has reduced price cow tags available so that we would likely be able to hunt it every year or every other year while accruing points for the general tag. That would certainly fast forward the learning process for us.

I am pretty capable at e-scouting and learning the ground before I get there. My e-scouting experience in Idaho put me on the elk the first day I stepped foot in the woods, but with the cost of doing these trips anymore, I don't want to leave anything to chance.
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Indian Summer » 05 27, 2022 •  [Post 6]

Swede wrote:In the whole scheme of things, I see Joes plans having a valuable place. I see them as a poor man's guide service


It’s basically a fully guided hunt on paper. But more self satisfaction because you’re in the driver’s seat. Nobody is holding your hand.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Billy Goat » 06 03, 2022 •  [Post 7]

I put the hunt plans together for my bunch, and I promise......... $2k is a bargain if they are good!

I seriously put hundreds of hours of GoogleEarth/Onxmaps/topozone research into ours.

I love hunting new ground, but I hate changing units, if that makes any sense at all. :)
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Indian Summer » 06 05, 2022 •  [Post 8]

I put a $h1tload of time into each plan. They have to fit the abilities of the hunters. Also be tailored to their preferences. When I’m done it’s a plan I’m confident in and would use myself. It’s a plan I have used I just have to interpret it on paper in a way that hunters can carry out.


One time I had a hunter email me when he got home. He told me that compared to his previous hunts he thought he died and went to Heaven. He jokingly said that I should charge $10,000 for a plan. Just a happy guy who has experienced elkless elk hunts after a bunch of preparation and excitement. I told him I probably wouldn’t sell very many but I appreciated the compliment.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Lefty » 06 05, 2022 •  [Post 9]

Indian Summer wrote:I put a $h1tload of time into each plan. They have to fit the abilities of the hunters. Also be tailored to their preferences. When I’m done it’s a plan I’m confident in and would use myself. It’s a plan I have used I just have to interpret it on paper in a way that hunters can carry out.
One time I had a hunter email me when he got home. He told me that compared to his previous hunts he thought he died and went to Heaven. He jokingly said that I should charge $10,000 for a plan. Just a happy guy who has experienced elk-less elk hunts after a bunch of preparation and excitement. I told him I probably wouldn’t sell very many but I appreciated the compliment.

Ive never been a guide.
My first elk hunt in 1991 was put together by my Father In Law. My next hunt he also put me in on an Idaho trophy hunt. I hadn't realized how much effort their was "providing " hunts for others, and for years I was just taking my wife and daughters and still hunting with other hunters.
I quite enjoy , but am also stressed about giving others quality information, or when hunting with me the best of experiences.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Indian Summer » 06 06, 2022 •  [Post 10]

There’s pressure Lefty. Guiding can be stressful and providing people with hunt plans isn’t much different. I enjoy it. Nothing is more rewarding than when I guy who has struck out for 2 or 5 years kills his first bull using one of my plans. But I put pressure on myself to make it a solid plan. When I’m done with a plan it sits on the coffee table for a week. I sleep on it and think about it at work and edit it. Polish it! The thing that makes it easier than guiding is I don’t have to be there if a hunter finds out the mountains are big and he can’t handle it. That’s on them. I coach them to push themselves. In the end they know in the back of their mind whether or not they gave 100%. On a guided hunt they just get irritable and don’t tip you. That’s unfair and I’m glad I don’t have to deal with that kind of thing anymore.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Swede » 06 07, 2022 •  [Post 11]

Joe: Do you have any idea what the success rate is for elk hunters using your plans for the 1st time?

Just curious. Thanks in advance for your reply.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Indian Summer » 06 08, 2022 •  [Post 12]

Swede wrote:Joe: Do you have any idea what the success rate is for elk hunters using your plans for the 1st time?

Just curious. Thanks in advance for your reply.


I’m not a data collector/paperwork kinda guy. But I’d say about 75%. It actually surprises me. My thoughts are that after guys struggle for 4 or 5 seasons and barely get an opportunity when they get where they’re going and see elk and so much sign it motivates them. When I first started selling plans I was shocked at how well they did.
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Swede » 06 08, 2022 •  [Post 13]

That is better than I would have expected, but your clients are motivated. Guides hunting public land are not seeing that kind of success, but I know of some very lazy hunters that book hunts and expect the guide to do everything. I think a very motivated hunter with a good hunting plan can do better than the average guided hunter.
What does it take to get into the areas you send hunters into? Does a hunter need a packer or ???
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Re: Hunting Plans

Postby Indian Summer » 06 09, 2022 •  [Post 14]

It’s way better than I expected Swede.

I had one guy email telling me he was going on vacation to Montana with his wife and 3 kids under 6 and wanted to know if I could set him up with a plan to sneak in a little elk hunting. I had his family rent a back country Forest Service cabin and he killed a 6 point bull with his bow.

I had another guy taking a friend bow hunting. The friend wasn’t much of a hunter and had never hunted anywhere out west. The rookie killed a big 5 point. The other guy hunted with a recurve and told me if he had a compound bow he could have killed 3 or 4 bulls. Here’s the part that amazed me.. he said he was into elk every day. They could hear bugles from base camp. I told him it didn’t surprise me that he saw elk every day where he hunted. Then he said he never saw a cow. WHAT!!! That was in Wyoming. After that he bought a Montana plan and they both went ip there and killed bulls. He hunted 6 years straight up there and looked for property to build a small place to leave his gear. Then they went back to Wyoming and did just as well. Plus since they had 6 points each I jumped on their party application and got a license too. Nice!

You may recall the thread on here from Luke Kessler. Within 3 hours of setting his base camp up he was at full draw on a 6 point bull. He didn’t kill a bull that week but went back in gun season and killed a monster 6 point at 10:30 on his first day of hunting.

No Swede you don’t need a packer. My guys all hunt on foot from base camps. I have a guy who leases and delivers horses. I’ve had hunters call him just to get two horses saddled and ready to go just to lead in on foot and pack an elk out.
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