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Price of hunts going up?

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Price of hunts going up?

Postby Deanmac » 01 20, 2022 •  [Post 1]

A friend of mine told me last night. He went on a private property hunt in Colorado last year, they booked the hunt and when they arrived they learned the price went from $4200 to $4500. They did not argue and did the hunt after driving from GA.

They were on the schedule to go again this year and just found out, the price now is $5200 for the same hunt. Wow, I see folks need to make a living but that is some pretty strong inflation. LOL
Factor in the drive, motel room for the trip to and from, tags and tip. I would say you are looking at about $7500 at a minimum? Now, this is no trophy place and last year the four folks in the party did not get anything.

For each his own, but I sure would not pay that much for a rag horn elk. LOL
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 01 20, 2022 •  [Post 2]

Good gawd, ya think :lol:
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Lefty » 01 20, 2022 •  [Post 3]

Only you can decide whats too much or what your hunts are worth to you.

My back fence neighbor use to run 500 cow calve pairs on their 3000 acres in the Bannock range. Some fellows paid a premium price to be the only ones to hunt, camp and with access though his place to National Forest for deer and not so great elk country

And today I saw the trucks of the guys who three years ago paid $17,500 for goose hunting,, Last year they paid $21,000,, for geese!! I hunt the adjoining property for free ,, Planning on hunting the adjoining field tomorrow.

Now I wouldn't pay that kind of money for that hunt when I have lots of public land. However I have had too many hunts on public ( and private) messed up by others .
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby saddlesore » 01 21, 2022 •  [Post 4]

Look at prices of trucks now days, hay for stock, stock itself. liability insurance, tack, food if provided, tents, fuel prices, wages for guide, & cooks. Everything has gone up.It is surprising many outfitting businesses have not gone belly up. In general,outfitting businesses are not big money makers. Most are in it for the life style.
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Swede » 01 21, 2022 •  [Post 5]

When I was a kid poaching was very common among the people I lived near. One neighbor would even hang his out of season killed deer out in front of his place, which could be seen from the road. He did not care one bit if the game warden saw it. What he said was that he would not pay the fine. They could throw him in jail and feed him and his family if they did not like the way he took care of them. Another neighbor claimed that if he was caught, fined and they confiscated his rifle, it would bring his meat bill up to $0.03 per pound. That was in the late 1950's and early 1960s.

There is a difference between subsistence hunting and sport hunting. But as far as I am concerned these large landowners are as greedy and despicable as the poachers. They graze the National Forests to the nub for far less than the cost of administering the permits they hold and post their land, so the elk go there for food to survive on. Often their property blocks off access to the national forest claiming people leave the gates open or other nonsense. Then they charge an exorbitant amount to hunt their land, or they forbid anyone to even cross it. If that is not enough the ranchers complain that the elk are eating them out of house and home. They want the state to pay them for the elk's feed consumption. It sure would not cost thousands of dollars to have a little permit system to allow people to hunt the ranch or even to cross it. Hunting should be a family sport and relatively inexpensive. Just My opinion.
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby saddlesore » 01 21, 2022 •  [Post 6]

Swede, although I agree with your comments concerning private land hunting or lack thereof, a big majority of outfitters do not hunt on their own land lease private land to do so. At least here in Colorado. Most I know hunt on public land, some on Wilderness areas, some on BLM land some on National Forest land, and they pay per hunter for their permit to do so. Ir is not a get rich business,although they do make a profits.If not they would not remain in business.
Private land or ranch hunts cost $3000-$5000 more. However success rates are a lot higher.75%-95%. Whereas Colorado success rates are in the18% realm for all manner of take and include bulls,cows. Bulls alone are a lot lower.

Another thing. A lot of those big bad ranchers feed the wildlife thru the winter.There is not enough forage for elk or deer on public land.
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Swede » 01 21, 2022 •  [Post 7]

I understand your point of view Vince. I am sure it is like most other businesses. There are both the very good ones and the predators out there. I do not object to ranchers making a good living. I just dislike the bellyaching, lying, and the I own and control everything in my world attitude I observed as a Forest Service employee.
Forty years ago, a hunter used to be able to cross private land to at least hunt the National Forest. Sometimes ranchers would even invite you to hunt their land. All of a sudden that all changed and now it is a big buck outlay to even cross their property. And more often than not you will be just turned down. The excuses I heard were often about the gates being left open or someone may shoot the cow. I suspect the person that would shoot the cow is the fellow who was told he could not cross over to the public land.
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Tigger » 01 21, 2022 •  [Post 8]

saddlesore wrote:
Another thing. A lot of those big bad ranchers feed the wildlife thru the winter. There is not enough forage for elk or deer on public land.



Just out of curiosity, in your opinion, is the lack of forage on public land due to the same rancher leasing the public and then overgrazing his cows on it? This would be in general and not any one particular rancher. Is this a problem in CO?
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Swede » 01 21, 2022 •  [Post 9]

Tigger, I will give you a perspective from what I have observed. The National Forests are often in the high country where the elk feed from spring through the fall. They may go down to the lower elevations early due to heavy overgrazing up high. The lower country is covered by ranches and BLM public land. Often the elk are grazing on ranches that have no public land grazing rights, and on ranches that do have grazing rights. The elk don't check to see who is abusing the public land. They just forage where they can.
I will look forward to seeing how my observations compare with Saddlsore's.
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Lefty » 01 21, 2022 •  [Post 10]

Tigger wrote:
saddlesore wrote:Another thing. A lot of those big bad ranchers feed the wildlife thru the winter. There is not enough forage for elk or deer on public land.

Just out of curiosity, in your opinion, is the lack of forage on public land due to the same rancher leasing the public and then overgrazing his cows on it? This would be in general and not any one particular rancher. Is this a problem in CO?

Im jumping on this one.
Not many ranchers are as honest following their public land contracts
Way too many are like the grazing association nearby. and where we use to spend most of our time elk hunting .
1200 cows were to be placed starting July 1 st. Im not kidding you. I was camping when Trucks by the dozens were dumping cows on the allotment, 1200 cows before daylight. OK that's good planning.

Last year there were 30 head in" our end" of the pasture Cows were to be out October 10th,, but 30 "lost" head were in the pasture until December 11. Im nt sure how you loose $1500 cows and a $4000 bull when I could find them any day.

This year the association even bragged they had over 1500 head on the pasture.

Neighbor rancher was running cows off his allotment all the time. The one day it was over 60 head.
Adjoining ranchers had very legitimate concerns about no grass left a poor grass year and over on Animal Unit
I ran into the new head range manager ,.. and confirmed what the association had been doing. I was able to point out over 100 association cows on BLM land, He used our ATV to check brands 6 days later all 1500 cows were gone.

The local CO stopped earlier to check on cows. He said the elk in 3 adjoining valleys were herded up and down on private ground because the cows had eaten everything on public lands .

So yes the cows ate up everything on national forest, Elk congregated in super herds and would travel miles to private land to feed

With all that happened I was given a rare situation this year, seeing so many elk for so many days, I expect ( and hope ) that will never happen again. The Range manager said this association was on their last chance, and wanted my phone calls


Tigger In many places Public lands (NF) mountains are generally higher elevation and deep snow buries possible winter feed.






Here’s how the estimated $2 million raised annually from the Idaho Depredation fee will be spent as money in the account builds:

The first $500,000 adds to funding that compensate landowners for crop damages caused by big game animals, up to $2.5 million annually based on available cash balance.
The next $500,000 adds money to prevent crop damage from big game herds.
The remaining $1 million will be spent to improve access to private land from willing landowners for hunting, fishing and trapping.
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby saddlesore » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 11]

I don't see that happening in the areas I frequent Lefty. In central CO near Gunnison I have hunted an area from95 thru 2018. A rancher has a gazing permit for 600 cow/calf pairs.It is about 10 miles wide and 20 miles . The forest service has it broken up into allotments and they tell him how many and how long he can keep his cows in each area. Having hunted it for many years, I have never seen any over grazing. Up in the high mountain meadows, I ride thru grass belly high on my mule. Those cows are moved out by Oct 1. In Northern CO,they graze a lot of sheep, 2-3000 per flock. Those sheep are moved out by Sept 1. Elk will live a among cows, but not sheep. In two weeks,the elk are back in the sheep allotment.The trouble times is in the winter when snow covers all the forage and elk migrate to lower areas. There isn't enough prime forage areas for all the elk on public land. The sage brush or oak brush will support the deer, but not elk. Although the better areas are usually private,it is hunter pressure that drives the elk to private lands, not lack of feed during the fall. Of course we have drought years, and all wildlife and domestic have a tough time making a living.

I will catch some flack here, but what I see is hunters think they should have exclusive rights to public land and forget it is multi use.In Colorado,archery hunters are always complaining because there is a muzzle loader elk season, bear season and turkey season during September. Archery hunters want everyone except themselves out of the woods even though they have the entire month of September to hunt.

Good ranchers, of which there are many, know if they over graze,there will be no grass next year. They would cut there own throat If they did. CPW caters to the Ag businesses for the simple reason there is not enough feed for the wildlife on public land and it isn't from over grazing. There is no sense damning the ranchers who in many cases have owned that land for 5-6 generations and we have only been here for 1-2.In addition those water sources that are developed by the ranchers also are used by wildlife in drier areas/years. That public land needs to be grazed,timbered or it will burn
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 12]

4200-5200 in a year nothing…gas went from $2 to $4 in a month, cost me $300 more a month to do the exact same stuff…that raise in price probably just covers there higher fuel bill.

I had to jump in to because there is a lot of bashing ranchers going on and I don’t really agree. There are good and bad ranchers just like there are good and bad forest service employees. Just like there are good and bad teachers. Just like there are good and bad hunters….absolutely there are some “ranchers/private land owners” that can be pains in the tail end.

But the unfortunate part is that hunters are probably about the biggest dirt bags of anyone on this list. Some hunters hunt a public land area for a few years and then hate when they see other hunters and are super rude to them just because they feel it is “there” spot when it’s public land. I watched one ranchers have to replace his gate and braces 3 weekends in a row because hunters were pulling his fence over with there pickups just to get on his private land. There is very good public land access all around his property, no need to mess with his stuff. I have multiple story’s of coming back to the vehicle and having garbage and crap all over the pickup from hunters…not to mention all the hunters driving there 4-wheelers off road and not following any laws. When I see people on here bash those that pay to lease land I feel like we are pointing a finger and there are 3 fingers pointing back at us. Most hunters are good but if you hunt public land you have to deal with and accept other hunters will be around.

In a few months I’m going to start shed hunting. There will be people all over in the BLM and Forest service driving off roads and breaking the law….hunters can be just as bad as anyone else out there

Elk Shape on YouTube just posted a video of a rancher kicking them off of public land claiming they had the hunting right to state land in New Mexico. People like that rancher need to be held accountable and prosecuted. The rancher is definitely a dirt bag. Just like the guys driving there atv’s all over need to be prosecuted.

Yet, there are great ranchers too. A few years ago I was in sportsman warehouse and there was an old man just walking around talking to people. Shortly he mad his way over to me and asked if I had any kids that hunted. I didn’t at that time. He told me he had x amount of land owner tags for cow elk on his property and he was trying to give them all out to youth hunters so they could get an elk. This was a great guy and a great rancher that was trying to use his position he was in for the good of the community.

There are good and bad in everything, and unfortunately hunters are the same way
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Lefty » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 13]

saddlesore wrote:I don't see that happening in the areas I frequent ,,,,,,,,,

I ride thru grass belly high on my mule.

I will catch some flack here, but what I see is hunters think they should have exclusive rights to public land a
n


Its a good thing you have tall grass we dont and havent


this pasture is 3200 acres, with 1500- 1600 head July 1st- Oct 10th
Much of our area is changing to "Associations" with bigger pastures, more cows , less time , faster rotation. the thought process is short term grazing leases the land was being abused, Long time users graze more appropriately
Associations would keep members in check, work together. save on labor (cowhands) Some do , some dont, I have good example of each.
We did have an extremely dry, poor grass season Much of the pasture looked like sheep were bedded in the pasture Cows were extremely hard on undergrowth and exposing the soils drying out the ground even quicker

Ranchers still Rule Idaho, and public lands but that is changing and needed too. I think most westerners understand the cow/ public land things.
Its hard to change the mind set when public lands are managed so much different east of the Mississippi


My father in law ran a lot of feeder cows on his private ground and feed lot. His comments were
"there doesn't need to be cow shit everywhere all the time" ( on public lands )
And way too many eat the grass to the dirt.

New range manager and a tech,,
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby saddlesore » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 14]

Well said Elkhunttoo.

About the hunters having the right to hunt state land.That is not always the case.State land maybe leased out and the lessee has control of the land .Our game department leases some state land.Some they open to general hunting, some to only youth hunting, some has no access. If a private party leases that state land,they can keep everyone out. Around here,some counties lease that state land. They control what is it use for and when it is open or closed. BLM land is different. As long as you don't cross private land to access t, don't drive on it or camp on it, the lessee cannot keep you out.I am sure there are exceptions though. In Colorado at least, every Section 16 of a Township is state school land it is leased to who ever bids the highest.
It seems those hunters did not know the laws
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 15]

Lefty
If there is no grass in that area there would be no elk.
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 16]

saddlesore wrote:Well said Elkhunttoo.

About the hunters having the right to hunt state land.That is not always the case.State land maybe leased out and the lessee has control of the land .Our game department leases some state land.Some they open to general hunting, some to only youth hunting, some has no access. If a private party leases that state land,they can keep everyone out. Around here,some counties lease that state land. They control what is it use for and when it is open or closed. BLM land is different. As long as you don't cross private land to access t, don't drive on it or camp on it, the lessee cannot keep you out.I am sure there are exceptions though. In Colorado at least, every Section 16 of a Township is state school land it is leased to who ever bids the highest.
It seems those hunters did not know the laws



The fish and game told them in New Mexico that they could hunt on the state land and that the rancher only had rights to the cattle grazing. Not to the elk hunting…I’m sure state land is handled differently in every state though
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Lefty » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 17]

Elkhunttoo wrote:Lefty
If there is no grass in that area there would be no elk.


They bedded in the National forests and some days covered miles to go eat and herd up on a few ungrazed private and public pastures. The fact ( according to the game warden) that the elk herded up as ealy as they did to feed on private lowlands

Cows were going into nasty blowdown looking for feed.

MFDC0275.JPG
The deer left the area
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Lefty » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 18]

Elkhunttoo wrote:The fish and game told them in New Mexico that they could hunt on the state land and that the rancher only had rights to the cattle grazing. Not to the elk hunting…I’m sure state land is handled differently in every state though


State school trust land grants were given to states somewhere around statehood for education. !-8, then became common practice and allowed for state hospitals Universities and some other state buildings ( like capitols)
It is up to the State trust to generally make the most money for the state lands for education. ( now often general funds) and most leases are specific, Timber, mining ( including gravels) grazing, Ski resorts, cabin properties, other developments, gas and oil leases

In Idaho School trust land makes $.25 per acre from the fish and game/access.


In good farmground in the Mid West it was common practice of one section, school house section of land. An acre was kept in trust, a township school house buildt
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Re: Price of hunts going up?

Postby Tigger » 01 22, 2022 •  [Post 19]

Holy Moly, I asked a question not realizing I kicked a hornets nest! It was an innocent question!
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