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What could I have done differently in this situation?

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What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby win2ktta » 09 13, 2021 •  [Post 1]

Setting (I knew the Bull stuff after the fact obviously): A moto/hiking trail up a drainage. Wallow about 20y off the trail. Bull bedded about 250y up from me as crow flies, and about 300y up the hill from the Wallow in the Timber. oh yea, this is my first time Elk hunting, and I was solo for this one.

Scenario/Situation:

Walking up a moto/hike trail heading north up a drainage about 10am (wind at back). I came upon a Wallow on left side about 20 yds off trail. found some fresh sign, so I moved up to some trees just off to right of wallow and cannot remember whether I did a Hoochie mama or a cow call. I heard a cow mew in response, then some short period of time (30 aec?) after that I heard a “location” bugle (at least that is what I think it was based on ElkNut stuff). I then used both Hoochie mama and my mouth read to make some calls (all cow calls because I left my tube at the SxS, and I did not think to actually try to do a bugle without my bugle tube, which I know now I can) and the bull responded back a couple times with std bugle. Did this. Back and for the for about 5-10 min. At one point he hit me with a “challenge” bugle type aggressive and agitated volume. Which I understood to be "get up here now”.

Shortly after that I heard a motorcycle coming up the trail, and as it went by, the Bull went silent. I also moved to try to get in position of wind, to try to stalk into their bedding area, but when I got to the downwind drainage I wanted to try, it seem like the wind shifted (I was about 350y, of which 180-200 of that was timber, away from them, so don’t think they winded me), so I stopped and then essentially went back through the tree lines to my original position. I was trying to go up the drainage ahead of them to about the same level and come in with the wind in my face.

When I got back to my original spot, I tried a few more calls, and no response. Sometime later maybe 20 to 30 minutes, I heard another location bugle that was much farther off, seemingly more near the ridge. I gave it a little bit more time, heard another bugle similar location up on the ridge, then I tried to stalk into the bedding area (the track on the image). I found beds and fresh droppings from what was a bull and likely a cow (I did not see sign of more than 1 cow). I tried to cut a track from the bedding, but my inexperience showed itself, and I could not figure it out.

As I was walking out to the SXS on the trail, I did hear one more distant bugle, again coming from a similar location as the previous two from the ridge. This all happened between 11am and 2pm.

I moved around quite a bit before I made my first calls, so I don’t think they could see me, since the “conversation” happens after I finally got settled.

My Question to is “What could I have done differently in this situation?” (Either before or after the moto)

My thoughts:

Option 1: when he was calling to me, I should have went straight up the hill towards him, slowly, and keeping an eye out for other cows, but since he was calling me to his position, I should have went instead of waiting.

Option 2: did what I did, but when I heard the bugle from the ridge, started making my way up and following them. Using Cow calls every so often to see if he would still respond.

Thanks,

Phil
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Re: What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby Jhg » 09 13, 2021 •  [Post 2]

Going into a bedding area with upslope thermals that late in the morning is a real challenge unless you know the area VERY well. What will happen is you will seem to "almost" have a chance, but not really, and only alert the group they are being pressured.
Bedding areas are like visual and scent fortresses. A hunter must be very certain of the terrain to have even a slight chance to stalk into them successfully. You could have gone the long road and circled into position above them though.

Since you had a limited quiver of calling tricks and without a bugle, calling the bull to you (not a bad idea) was not working but you kept pushing it and from near a trail to boot. You would have been better off pulling out and returning early next morning to either get above the bedding and have them come up to you (watch the thermal streams) or try another approach. Not a fan of bull sounds from near a wallow myself. The elk left because your calling made them nervous and the motorcycle didn't help.

It may be hard at first, but pulling out and having another chance tomorrow is always better then pushing them over the ridge by forcing the exchange which is what happened. They won't tolerate a lot of miscues.
Don't be discouraged by my advice- play to your skills and be honest about your limits and hunt accordingly. Improvement comes with practice but as you just learned trying to do what you are not great at yet, usually ends in frustration.
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Re: What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby >>>---WW----> » 09 13, 2021 •  [Post 3]

Jhg gives some good advise. I stay away from bedding areas completely if at all possible. Busting them out of a secure area could mean spending the rest of your hunt trying to relocate where the went.

Another thing you mentioned was that the bull challenge bugled back to your cow sounds. Bulls don't challenge cows, period!!!! Think about it. If you were looking for a little nookie would you challenge or threaten the girls away?? This all sounds a little fishy to me and I'm suspecting another hunter may have been bugling back at you.
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Re: What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby Tigger » 09 14, 2021 •  [Post 4]

Or you may have misinterpreted the challenge bugle. Could it have been a roundup bugle? Were there chuckles on the end?

To me, the trail, the wallow and the motorcycle were too much activity. I would have let him call me away from all of that.
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Re: What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby win2ktta » 09 14, 2021 •  [Post 5]

When I said challenge vehicle, I meant that it was just more of an intense bugle, I believe the word chuckled at the end. It reminded me of the conversation I’ve heard call Meg on the app where he talks about a lazy bugle and then a more intense bugle corps a bowl telling a cow to come join the group. Like I said at the beginning, I am very new at this, and have completely misinterpreted the same. I am 99% sure it was not a hunter, because when I did go up to the bedding area I did the pressure line, and as I pointed out continue to hear you girls up off the ridge.

In the situation where the recommendation was to circle up and get above them, being solo, when I have called him fall during that process? What would’ve likely then the hunt once above them?

I appreciate all the insight, and take none of this as criticism, but just recommendation and assessment of my execution. I’m going to be heading back up in a couple of weeks for the last weekend, so hopefully I can do things a little bit better, should I get a similar situation.

One of the questions I had in my mind, about backing out, is would they still be there the next day? I don’t know enough about elk behavior do you have made an educated guess as to whether they would stay in the area, or whether they were moving on. I made the conscious decision to be called a “more aggressive”, and maybe my default as an inexperienced country should be I’d be less aggressive.

Thx for input.

Phil
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Re: What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby Jhg » 09 14, 2021 •  [Post 6]

win2ktta wrote:...

One of the questions I had in my mind, about backing out, is would they still be there the next day? I don’t know enough about elk behavior do you have made an educated guess as to whether they would stay in the area, or whether they were moving on. I made the conscious decision to be called a “more aggressive”, and maybe my default as an inexperienced country should be I’d be less aggressive.

Thx for input.

Phil



They certainly were not going to be there once they went over the ridge because you chose to keep calling right? So what is the downside of pulling out and with what you learned about the terrain hunt them the next morning earlier?

Its amazing how often the elk will still be in the same area if you do not pressure them or otherwise make them wary. I would choose the chance they would be there over pushing them into the next drainage any day until I had honed my understanding of what elk are saying. It takes time to learn, but when you don't know whats being said its better to call less, not more.
Calling less can make an elk curious, invites less opportunity for you to say the wrong thing, and does not demand as much from them.

The key to calling well is the second you do not understand the exchange anymore between yourself and the elk, you may as well stop and re-think what you are doing. Re-evaluate and try something else but don't just keep calling away hoping you hit on something that works.
The "conversation" with an elk has to move along. We don't just keep repeating ourselves when we talk to one another and elk don't either. Listen to Elknut enough and the thing that is consistent is he is actually directing the conversations and influencing the elk by doing that. Thats a very different calling attitude and why he can turn an encounter into a shot opportunity when most would blow it. Elk on public land are savvy. Don't speak our language? We are outta here.
Enjoy the experiences and build on your strengths.
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Re: What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby win2ktta » 09 15, 2021 •  [Post 7]

Someone on another forum noted that once I called again after the moto went by, and calling from the same spot "they knew you were a hunter". I had not thought of it that way. Learning a ton. I need to keep in my forefront of the mind "what would a real Elk do in this situation", and sit there while a moto went by and not move at all is probably not one of them :)
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Re: What could I have done differently in this situation?

Postby Lefty » 09 23, 2021 •  [Post 8]

As this season has progressed we have begun using calling less and less to locate bulls

we try to use the Curiosity aspect of calling.Generally one or two mews, and bull sounds spaced put longer.

Andrew is a newbie and of the success that we've had for whatever reason thought he could break certain rules in my book are big no-nos number one is always downwind. currents bust us plenty of times. And back out if it it likely won't work.

We have found out that we need to close the distance to get a real strong reaction from many bulls you need to be under a hundred yards even more so if there are cows are lots of cows.
And when your close give the bull some time.
Not every herd bull charges in knocking down the forest. T
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