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Montana legislature 2021

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Montana legislature 2021

Postby Tigger » 04 28, 2021 •  [Post 1]

If you are a nonresident of Montana, and would like to hunt it one day, you should be aware of what is going on in MT this year. Their are some serious bills that would greatly diminish the odds of the non-guided hunter from drawing a tag. This is real folks! I know Malachi has been involved through another forum. This will really suck if HB637 passes. educate yourself and make your voices heard.
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Re: Montana legislature 2021

Postby GoGriz1234 » 04 28, 2021 •  [Post 2]

As a current NR who loves to hunt and spend time in Montana, diy, this is a bummer. Seems like the money is driving the decision, as usual - just seems like this is a rabbit hole or slippery slope that might spiral over the years into more and more - I’ll start doing some more research and make my voice heard.
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Re: Montana legislature 2021

Postby RAMMONT » 04 29, 2021 •  [Post 3]

So what's the complaint about HB637, not that it matters much since it's passed the legislature.
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Re: Montana legislature 2021

Postby Tigger » 04 29, 2021 •  [Post 4]

in a nutshell it favors wealthy hunters over the common man. So if you're rich and can afford an outfitter you get a tag, but the normal blue collar guy can't. It gives nonresident hunters who book with a guide an extra preference point. this means they get preferential treatment and are virtually guaranteed a license every year. this then makes the odds of a do-it-yourself guy go way down. i heard that the amendment sponsor, (berglee or something like that) actually said on the floor that bumbling nonresidents should be required to have a guide. in addition, preference point fees doubled to $100. This year if you booked with an outfitter, you automatically get a tag. too bad for the common man, he had to go through the application process and get denied. but if you are a rich fat cat from new jersey, you get a tag. All of this goes against The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation principle of fair and equal access to the resources.
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Re: Montana legislature 2021

Postby RAMMONT » 04 29, 2021 •  [Post 5]

While I understand what you're complaining about I don't really have much empathy.

If I want to borrow your car, would it be reasonable for me to tell you that you should provide me with a full tank of gas and that you're a bad guy if you refuse?

Your argument is similar, you want to use the resources of Montana but you want to tell Montana the conditions that you want them to accept.

Game management takes money and the money comes from the revenues raised by charging hunters for licenses and other fees. Like any other entrepreneur, the State makes the most profit by charging whatever the market will bear. So, like any business, the State will increase the price of the privilege for a nonresident to hunt in Montana until they see the revenues start to drop. If the rule changes result in less revenue then they'll adjust the rules next year. That's the reality of any revenue producing process.

I thank the nonresident hunters for helping to provide management monies to my home state but honestly, you don't have any voice in the matter other than choosing not to hunt here if you don't like the cost. Personally I think it's a travesty when people think that they should voice their opinions about legislation in other states, if you want to weigh in on what the Montana Legislature does then become a Montana resident.
Don't forget that we both have an effect on each other. Residents work and live hear so our opinions should hold more sway than yours and that's why I don't like anybody from out of state trying to lobby my Legislature. We want the revenues from nonresident hunters so your input is valuable, but to try to influence the Legislature by flooding them with outside voices isn't appropriate.

I don't like any political process that benefits any single class of people over another but the reality is that you're concept of who is a rich fat cat is relative. To me, people that can afford to spend several thousands of dollars on a hunt in another state is a rich fat cat. In my view, your argument is just a complaint from one rich fat cat who is worried that they'll be pushed out of the picture by even richer fat cats.

You make the rules when I visit your house and I make the rules when you visit mine.
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Re: Montana legislature 2021

Postby Tigger » 04 29, 2021 •  [Post 6]

since the NR is paying for MT wildlife management, they sure deserve an opinion. they do not get a vote, but why cant they have an opinion? Montanans have shown they do not want Outfitter welfare programs like this with a ballot initiative around 2012? that did away with Outfitter set asides. So why the snarky political games to get this one passed through? This concept was defeated in multiple bills this legislative session except for a backdoor last minute effort. no sporting groups were asked their opinion, no sporting groups (no MONTANA sporting groups) were in favor of this. So the Montana people do not want this and the Montana sporting groups don't want it. Who does? The Outfitters association. They expended a lot of political capital getting this through.

If you think someone that saves money all year to afford a license and then goes on a hunt where they stay in tents and eat homemade meals is a fat cat, so be it. But they are not in the same league as some high fallutin' attorney who just waltzes in and gets preferential treatment.

Here is a good analogy: anyone who wants to do a home project would be required to get a permit. The odds of you getting a permit are not great as a do-it yourselfer. But if you hire a contractor you get to go to the head of line and are guaranteed a permit. that is the exact concept.

The conditions i want for use of Montana resources is simply fair and equal treatment with respect to resource allocation as prescribed by the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. But not just Montana. Every state. my state included. I would fight long and hard to defeat any bill in my state that violates this principle. (N/NR nonwithstanding as i believe everyone thinks residents should be allowed more opportunity than NR). If we start going down this road, the European model will soon be at play here and only the really rich will get to play.
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Re: Montana legislature 2021

Postby GoGriz1234 » 04 29, 2021 •  [Post 7]

I personally think that the more restrictions that are imposed on NR hunters, the higher chance that you have for people who really love hunting these state (could be any of them), picking up and moving there. It is currently happening with the great COVID migration, but as more people are freed up to work from anywhere, I think more people who spend a good amount in NR tags are looking at their finances, where they want to spend time and the R cost for tags, and thinking of just moving to the State. If I did this with my Family, I would easily save thousands of dollars a year in tags, travel and other related expenses. I hate this though, as part of the reason so many people like visiting these states, is the openness and land. It also serves to drive up home prices, which is a whole other discussion. Just my take as someone who wouldn’t hire a guide in Montana, even if I could afford to (although I have and will hire guides in other States), for me personally it would just change how I feel about and hunt in Montana too much.
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