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165 sirocco vs 178hornady

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165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby lilshootergirl » 02 26, 2021 •  [Post 1]

So I'm working up loads for my teka T 3light 308. Does anyone have this Gun? And if so what bullet would be best to tell? Should I contact the maker? Or load both And see which one travels. Better?
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby Indian Summer » 02 26, 2021 •  [Post 2]

Bullets are like boots. Try both and see which one your gun shoots best. If the heavier one flys well great, go with that. Good luck.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby Lefty » 02 26, 2021 •  [Post 3]

Indian Summer wrote:Bullets are like boots. Try both and see which one your gun shoots best. If the heavier one flys well great, go with that. Good luck.


If you like shooting, Work multiple loads for each. There can be lots of other concerns for a load. But general hunters what Joes says is dead on for the vast majority.
If Im expecting long or very long shots Im looking for accuracy and energy.
Heavy brush I want the energy and a more solid bullet for brush.
Most hunters are satisfied" or thrilled with 1" groups with a hunting load. or 1 1/2 loads with a semi loader. Most often bullets and guns shoot better than the shooter.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby Swede » 02 26, 2021 •  [Post 4]

With all of the variations in bullets and powders, you could make a career out of determining the "best" load for your gun. For years hunters have bought over the counter boxes of cartridges and had good results. I think you are over thinking the issue. If you want a little more KE choose the heavier bullet. If you want something that is moderate and a little flatter shooting, go with the 165 gr round. They will both kill elk. We see this debate every year when it comes to arrow/broadhead weight. If I was only hunting open country Mule deer or something similar, I would go with 150 grain bullets. The problem is all of these bullets will hit a little different, so go with one and call it keeps.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby wawhitey » 02 26, 2021 •  [Post 5]

Indian Summer wrote:Bullets are like boots. Try both and see which one your gun shoots best. If the heavier one flys well great, go with that. Good luck.



This. See what shoots the best. All guns are different. Even with the same twist rate / manufacturer. Example, i have 2 different models of savage .308 with a 10 twist. One shoots 165gr superformance gmx the best, one prefers 165gr sierra game king.

For what its worth, my 1:10 twist .308s have all done best with 165 grain bullets, while my 12 twists prefer the 150gr.

Experiment a bit, see what the gun wants. I know thats difficult to do right now given the stupid ammo shortage. But your gun will know what it wants better than any chuklehead on a forum.

Accuracy trumps bullet construction IMO. Id rather put an old fashioned bullet in the right spot than put the latest and greatest bullet design in the wrong spot.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby saddlesore » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 6]

wawhitey wrote:
Accuracy trumps bullet construction IMO. Id rather put an old fashioned bullet in the right spot than put the latest and greatest bullet design in the wrong spot.


I have totally disagree with that statement. A Sierra Match King or just about any other good match bullet will cut clover leafs at a 100 yards if the rifle and shooter are up to it.However,if that bullet comes apart at the first small bone or even on the hide, there is wounded animal and the hunter cries bullet failure.If a hunter can put 3-5 bullets in a 2" group at100 yards,that extends to 6" groups at 300 yards.The elks kill zone is 8-10inches.If the bullet isn't tough enough to penetrate deep enough for a fatal shot,accuracy doesn't mean anything.

A standard cup and core, pushed at the velocity it was desigmed for and have enough mass to penetrate will work just as wel las any of the new boutique bullets.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby Indian Summer » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 7]

Swede wrote: If you want a little more KE choose the heavier bullet. If you want something that is moderate and a little flatter shooting, go with the 165 gr round.


Think about that. More energy versus flatter trajectory? When a bullet runs out of gas (energy) it begins to drop. A heavier bullet retains energy because weight stores energy. So while a lighter bullet might fly flatter to a certain point. Beyond that the heavier one will have a better trajectory. If you shoot the heavier bullet faster than the lighter one it will out perform it at all distances. A good analogy is to think about what happens if you go outside and throw a ping pong ball and a golf ball as hard as you can. The much heavier golf ball is going much further. Also if it’s windy the ping pong ball will blow sideways while the golf ball punches right through the air because of the greater foreword energy.

Saddlesore mentioned the fact that a well built bullet is better for killing than some match grade one that is accurate but blows apart losing energy (less or minimal penetration) when it hits solid material. That’s 100% true but other than good bullet construction the energy factor is also very important. A well built bullet won’t get the job done as well if it’s out of energy when it gets there. I know guys that shoot 6.5 Creedmores at 1000 yards and they can pick the bullets up off the ground behind the target. If you’re shooting a 165-210 grainer you won’t find a bullet anywhere after the shot. It kept going. 200 grain bullets can be shot out to a mile. Pea shooters won’t do that. Can you tell I’m not a fan of shooting light bullets at heavy elk? :lol:

For the record I don’t consider 165 light for elk. That’s what I shoot out of my 7mm Rem Mag and they do a fantastic job all around.

Shootergirl you’re doing a great job of thinking about and planning for your hunt. Keep your foot on the gas with preparing for it and not only will you up your chances of success but you’ll have a lot more fun knowing that you’re ready. I’m a planning FANATIC! At it for 35 years and to this day I still obsess over fine tuning my plans, gear, etc.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby Swede » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 8]

Long range shooting has taken on a life of its on these days and people plan on shots that are extreme for hunting situations. I understand I.S's point on trajectory, and he is correct. But let's look at this a little more.
With a 308W your 165 grain bullet is going to maintain more velocity until it has traveled over 300 yards. I guess you could say the 165 grain bullet is tiring out a little then. I like my 308W just fine, but I would not plan to shoot it over 300 yards. If I am going to join the long range kids, then I want a different gun. I want a different scope and a range finder. Maybe I need a newer CY 2000 body that is extremely steady.
Either the 165 grain or the 180 grain bullet will kill elk. I tend to prefer sighting my gun in using one round and knowing just where it hits. Then I plan on using it on everything. To my way of thinking the 165 is a very happy medium, but if you are strictly hunting heavier game like elk, you may find some advantage in the 180.
I whole heartedly agree with Saddlesore's take on "boutique" bullets, though I had not heard that term before.
I see folks are selling "boutique" broadheads now, and people are raving at how great they are. I am reminded of the useless information that I have at my finger tips when I press the buttons on my 10 year old pickup. Useless information is in vogue, so the manufacturers put in in almost all of their trucks. Unlike "boutique" bullets, you have a very hard time avoiding that garbage.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby saddlesore » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 9]

For comparison , my bullets of choice for my .06 is a 220 gr RN for close in timber work and a 180 gr Nosler Partition for more open country,but both can be subsituted for the other if need be.

My .308 gets 165gr Sierra Game Kings for deer and 180gr RN for elk or the 180gr Partition.

I find the 165 gr GK does not give the penetration I want if I cap a deer at 30-40 yards when the bullet is still in the 2800fps realm. Which is why Idon't use it on elk if there is chance I encounter an elk in spitting distance which seems to be the norm for me.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby Swede » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 10]

I am not sure why you are not getting good penetration at shorter ranges. I have to admit that I purchased a 338 WM to get more knockdown power on elk, but even with the 338WM I had a bull, that I shot and killed, get taken by another hunter. The other hunter never fired a shot.
I have shot deer, elk and caribou with bullets under 150 grains. I used 130 and 140 grains in my 270W, and 120 grains in the 6.5 Swede. The biggest bull I ever killed dropped on the spot he was hit with the 6.5 Swede. I think I was shooting 120 grains, but it was too long ago to be certain. Certainly the 6.5 has less punch than a 308W with just 150 grain bullets. I am not advocating for lighter bullets particularly, but I found the caribou went down quick with 140 grains from the 270W.
The shots I have made tend to be fairly short range (200 yards or less). I have shot a very few deer at over 200 yards.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby wawhitey » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 11]

saddlesore wrote:
wawhitey wrote:
Accuracy trumps bullet construction IMO. Id rather put an old fashioned bullet in the right spot than put the latest and greatest bullet design in the wrong spot.


I have totally disagree with that statement. A Sierra Match King or just about any other good match bullet will cut clover leafs at a 100 yards if the rifle and shooter are up to it.However,if that bullet comes apart at the first small bone or even on the hide, there is wounded animal and the hunter cries bullet failure.If a hunter can put 3-5 bullets in a 2" group at100 yards,that extends to 6" groups at 300 yards.The elks kill zone is 8-10inches.If the bullet isn't tough enough to penetrate deep enough for a fatal shot,accuracy doesn't mean anything.

A standard cup and core, pushed at the velocity it was desigmed for and have enough mass to penetrate will work just as wel las any of the new boutique bullets.



You say you totally disagree, then your closing paragraph completely agrees with what i said. At least what i was trying to say. Maybe i just dont explain myself well.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby wawhitey » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 12]

saddlesore wrote:For comparison , my bullets of choice for my .06 is a 220 gr RN for close in timber work and a 180 gr Nosler Partition for more open country,but both can be subsituted for the other if need be.

My .308 gets 165gr Sierra Game Kings for deer and 180gr RN for elk or the 180gr Partition.

I find the 165 gr GK does not give the penetration I want if I cap a deer at 30-40 yards when the bullet is still in the 2800fps realm. Which is why Idon't use it on elk if there is chance I encounter an elk in spitting distance which seems to be the norm for me.



Id be interested to hear a bit more about your 165gr sierra gameking experiences at various ranges, as that is what ive found to shoot the best in my newest .308, though ive only shot paper with it so far. Took it on its maiden voyage on a deer hunt last fall in idaho, but totalled my truck before i got a chance to take a buck i wanted. May be a couple years before i actually hunt with it again.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby Old school » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 13]

Just finished working up a load for my sons .308. Here’s what we came up with and how we did it.

Starline Brass
Federal Match Primers
Hornady Accubond 150 gr
BL-C2 powder

Worked up 5 different powder loads (3 rounds each)
43 gr, 43.5 gr, 44 gr, 44.5 gr and 45 gr. Took them out and shot the 3 shot group with each powder load and saw which was the most accurate. I was glad the 45 gr was the most accurate. I’m partial to the Nosler Accubonds out of a .308 myself. And I just bought 200 of the 168 gr long range Accubonds to work up next. If I wasn’t shooting the Accubonds I’d shoot the Nosler Partitions.

He shoots a Bergara though not a Tikka.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby saddlesore » 02 27, 2021 •  [Post 14]

The Game Kings when kept at modest velocties perform well. In general, if pushed too fast, say 2900fps + at POI,they tend to separate the core from the jacket. Once they get out there aways and shed velocity, they do fine.It is those close in shots that give you grief.Say if you should hit a shoulder bone if a shot wen astray.. A double lunger will turn the lungs to soup though but clip a scapula and you lose the whole shoulder. A neck shot or one behind the ear works well if one is capablbe of doing it.
I have probably killed 20-25 elk with them,quite a few deer and more antelope with a 6.5 GK.
But like anything else, mistakes happen or the animal takes a step when I tripped the trigger and I quit using them. A few years I had magnumitus and was shooting them in my 7 mag, but using175 gr's and my longest tracking job was when I hit a 6x bull at about 50 yards quartering towards me. A few years later I hit a bull while hunting in Alberta and it just stood there, I borrowed the guides 300 and finished it off . Those two bulls are mounted,bugling at each other right above my computer. Ironically ,my biggest bull was killed with a 180 gr GK ,neck shot at about 60 yards, 30-06

My load in an .06 the 180gr GK's with H4350 were zeroed in at 200 yards and my 220 gr RN Sierra with that zero printed dead on at 100. I switched to 180 gr partitions mostly because Shooters Pro Shop had some overruns for $13 / box of fifty and I bought a bunch.They print the same as the GK's and fly in my .06 just as accurately. I like the 220's. the hit with authority even at the 2600 fps Idrive them at,they stay together and penetrate. I have killed a few elk out past 300 yards with them. Most are under a 100 though.Usually I find them under the hide on the far side.

If I wanted to use 165 gr bullets in a .308 on elk, I wouldn't use any thing less than a Partition.Some use Acubonds,but I have only used them on antelope out of my 6.5 Swede. A lot of guys swear by them though.Kind a pricey though. I like the idea that someone told me once years ago. Use a bullet that works when everything goes wrong instaed of one that only works when everything goes right.
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Re: 165 sirocco vs 178hornady

Postby lilshootergirl » 02 28, 2021 •  [Post 15]

Thank you all, i've got several different bullets too load, and 4 different powders too! I've only used varget so far. It will be interesting to see the differences in powders too. I guess, I'm worried more about penetration at 400-500 yards? Hopefully ill find on my nephew's chronograph some answers from these different loads!
Ill let you know what loading Tika shoots the best.
Years ago I taped 4 phone books, got it wet. Took 44gr 22 bullets shot it several times at 50 yards, I was amazed how it went all the way thru,and the hole on the back side was bigger than the front , someone told me it wouldn't go through, he was shocked, I may try this with my final load, should tell me how deep and the damage it will do!
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