Elk Scent - When and How?

[WapitiTalk1]

Saw a few folks touching on this recently so i figured I'd start a discussion/information thread. Haven't used it much myself. I know when I was a trapper in MT, using scent was absolutely necessary to lure many fur bearers close to, and into the set. For those who use elk scent (or have) how do you use it, and, in what situations?

[Swede]

I have used both attractants and cover scents. I can't say they are worth the cost and effort. I have had deer and elk follow skunk scent. I don't know why they do at times. Urine does not work near as well as I thought it would. I have put some on unscented toilet paper and hung it on a bush, where there was a good down draft that would carry the scent a long way. I can't be sure it worked. If it did, the elk circled around and came in from upwind. I see there is an Elk Bomb. I am wondering i that works basically the same as the misting that WW wrote about on another thread.

[>>>---WW---->]

I used to be a trapper also. Mostly mink, muskrat, and racoon. Never used scent, just blind sets. I caught just as much fur as the guys that used scent. But I did have a buddy that was a big fox trapper. He used lure and bait. I never got into that.

Swede: I kinda wonder about the elk bomb thing. It is an aerosol isn't it? And that would make a hissing sound when it went off. Most misting I thought was done up fairly close. I would thing the sound of the bomb might scare them away. That might be a good question for the guys at ELK Inc.

[buglmin]

I was taught about mist spraying by Abe Meline, and the secret is to get fresh urine, with nothing added to preserve it, and its tough to get good, fresh urine these days. I used to buy it by the gallons from a guy in Montanna that had an elk farm. I would mix it 80/20, with water, to help the urine hang in the air and to get it to stick to the brush...I would spray it constantly, and used it to check the wind..the guys behind me hated me...lol
I would also buy cow in heat gel from the same guy. It came in tubs. I would take 6" of parachote cord, pull the center out, and stuff it half full with split shot. I would melt the ends closed, and stuff them in the gel and leave bout 2" of the cord sticking out. When we set up on a bull and used the estrus whine, I would flick three or four of these cords out away from us in a circle...and yessir, I was still mist spaying. Bulls would come in and actually smell out these cords. We've had bulls actually pick these cords up...
In the Gila one year, I had my cow in heat gel in a big zip lock bag, and would leave it ouside at nights. The first night I did this, we had seven bulls in camp screaming their heads off...one bull actually carried the bag off before I yelled at him making him drop it. I would use the gel around water holes, and would have bulls lay in the gel and roll in it. Thats what happened the night my buddy killed a huge 380" bull down there...he came in and went straight to the gel...
The urines you get today are junk...if it smells like elk pee, then it aint fresh. It would take bout seven or eight days before I would have to refresh my spray bottles. I would freeze most of it and just grab spray bottles as I needed them. But its the mist spraying that actually helped clients kill a lot of elk...with the smell in the air, over powering the human smell, the elk werent as skittish or didnt hang up as often.

[flystrait]

I vote for "misting"

[ElkNut1]

I've used scents sparingly over the years but cannot attribute any success to it that I know of! I think it has very good possibilities though in the right situation! I did carry a bottle last year of cow elk urine but never used it, mostly because I didn't think of it even though I had it! It definitely has its pluses as Buglmin shares! Where is the Gel available?

ElkNut1

[buglmin]

Paul, if I remember right, it wa seither john or Chris Hagard from Montanna that I used to buy the urine and elk gel from. I tried to buy urine from Milligan Brand Outfitters a few years back, and was disappionted in the quality. Hagard had an elk farm, and collected it daily.
One year, almost every morning when we hunted this area, I would walk by this dry pond. I would always stop and put out a few cords of cow in heat. After a few days of doing this, we started hearing a bull bugling around this pond area bout 9:30ish every morning. We would go in the next morning to hunt this bull, but would get no response. But by 9:30ish, he would start off. A light went off when I realized that he was making rounds, scent chcking for cows, and would come through this area looking for the cows. We killed the nice 6x6 the next morning as he came in screaming to an estrus whine.
Man, its sad when you cant remember names anymore. I know that Jake's Archery in Orem, Ut, used to carry the gel and small bottles of urine.

[>>>---WW---->]

http://www.elkinc.com/searchResult.aspx?categoryid=14

Here is the link to E.L.K. if anyone is interested in this sort of stuff.

[Lefty]

This is where I am.
I was a commercial, full time trapper and trapping lure and bait maker
While I know others like to douse themselves in urine,.. not me, ever . One thing I discovered a long time ago, old animals are leery of everything. Most of the hardest animals to trap are not caught in lured sets but blind set. Experienced animals are nearly always alerted to lures and scents

For me personally I would use urine and droppings for two ways.
One if I was stand hunting placing droppings and urine to stop animals on the trail
The other at a less used waterhole or a wallow to strengthen the elk smell. Urine has limited curiosity draw for plant eaters

Oh maybe super misting if stand hunting for wolves

[POk3s]

I was taught about mist spraying by Abe Meline,

I learned my mist spraying by May Beline also....they make a great mist spray for your eyes. Really brings out the colo.......oh wait.


Great points made here. I carried around a bottle of cow in heat scent last year and never used it....and it ended up coming loose in my pocket, so I guess I did use i, just not by choice. I would give some "fresh" stuff 100% effort if I could figure out where to get some. Hey Paul....buy a cow

[ElkNut1]

Buglmin, thanks! Actually there's a guy in Boise Idaho that has fresh stuff yearly, he sent me a bottle of the spray to try out, we ended taking our elk without it but will make a point to use it when the occasion arises! I just hate hunting with the wind going anywhere in an elk's direction but I have been in situations where the wind was borderline & my fingers were crossed in hopes of not being busted by the marginal wind! That would be a great place to give a couple of sprays!

ElkNut1

[Swede]

I have wondered about how age affects urine as an attractant. The stuff I have had could have been a year or more old. I purchased it off the shelf before the opening of the season. I remember asking one merchant, and he said it got better with age. I was skeptical then and am even more skeptical now. I know urinating out of my tree stand has no effect on deer, elk and bears, but now I am wondering if hanging (3-4 feet above he ground) some unscented toilet paper soaked in fresh elk urine might be effective in the right place.

[flystrait]

I personally have found no benefit from any type of cover scents if the wind is wrong. My findings are from over 25 years of elk hunting with multiple close encounters, kills and shot opportunities every year. I do beleive in trying to minimize any scent being human, etc and use the wind to your advantage. I have been known to locate bulls below me in the morning when they are screaming their heads off and just sit and wait till the thermals change to increase my chances with a favorable wind even if that means they are bedded before that happens. If the wind is "iffy" I will just move on to try to find another bull that i have a favorable wind to go after. Since I have been using this approach our kills and shot opportunities have sky rocketed.. Of course learning what to say and when has helped as well

[buglmin]

Youre welcome Paul, and swede, all urine goes bad. After a while, fresh urine will start to have that amonia smell. If it doesnt, then you know its mixed with presevatives.
When we get bulls bugling below us, we figure the wind and which way we have to go to drop off and come at him from the side. When I hunted elk hard, I would call in over 30 bulls during September. And that was in Colorado, New Mexico, and at times, Utah. Thats how I met Abe Meline, called him in in the Gila. I never leave a hot bull, period!! Why give him time to cool down or move off...figure the wind and get on him.
It only makes sense to use scents. When a bull comes in, he is expecting to see or at least smell elk. When he can get a wiff of elk, he knows they were there, and are around somewhere. When a bull comes in to an estrus whine, he is expecting to see the cow or else smell her so he can follow her.
I never said the urine was used as a cover up. I said that by mist spraying, with the smell of elk over the top of human smell, the bulls would still come in, cause the elk smell was stronger then the human smell. Not once did I say to spray yourself down, thats just dumb.
One word of caution, when handling fresh elk urine, use latex gloves when youre filling bottles. Its urine, and carries bacteria...thats what makes it smell like amonia after a few days...
A good friend of mine, Lennis Jenson, from Crooked Horn Outfitters, can tell you how a bull comes in when youre mist spraying. And he was with me opening morning a few years ago when the season started the third week of August. When its your job to put elk on the ground, or at least in front of clients, you do all you can to increase the odds in your favor. Plus its just fun when the guys behind you walk into the mist as you spray...teaches them to keep their mouths closed!!!

[ElkNut1]

To mist or spray oneself down then throw caution to the wind & ignore it is one thing! (not advised at all) But on marginal setups where backing out isn't an option I can see where misting the air could buy a hunter a few precious seconds! This is where I see it as a plus! I've been in that situation many times, some were still won most were lost! I've yet to call in elk with it but do not blow it off as useless, it definitely has promise!

Buglmin, how have cows reacted to it when coming in first on iffy wind? I know you aren't hunting with the wind at your back so am referring to those marginal times when a guy is just flat there & stuck as wind swirls on him! In many cases cows will show out of curiosity before the herd bull? Satellites, well that's a different story! Thanks!

ElkNut1

[Lefty]

I had not heard this method of misting,.. I can see how it could be used in certian situations

[Swede]

I have wondered the same thing Paul asked about. It seems to me the wind would almost have to be at your back to carry the mist to the elk. Is the mist scent strong enought to act as a cover as well as an attractant? If it is, how critical is timing of the mist since you can't keep a constant fog of the stuff out there?

[WapitiTalk1]

I have wondered the same thing Paul asked about. It seems to me the wind would almost have to be at your back to carry the mist to the elk. Is the mist scent strong enought to act as a cover as well as an attractant? If it is, how critical is timing of the mist since you can't keep a constant fog of the stuff out there?

Got to thinking about this. They make a battery operated mister for deer estrus scent.. it releases the scent into the air in a timed fasion. Perhaps there's something out there similar for wapiti, although I couldn't find anything.. Hmm, something a smart guy can develop and market?

http://www.hunterspec.com/content/prime ... rus-mister

[buglmin]

When I really start misting is when I'm headed in to get to where I wanna call from. I'm always checking the wind, especially with the spray. And when the wind is going bthe way I dont want it to, I start misting heavily, and working to get the wind right.
When we get to were I wanna call from, then I mist heavily again to start, just in case the wind swirls. It puts that scent out there, and helps if the wind does swirl. When I'm calling alone, I mist heavily, then move up and down so the bull will come into where he heard the calls coming from. If I cant get a shot, he will stop when he hits either the cow in heat gel or the area of heavy mist.
As far as they cows go, they really dont pay no attention to the mist spraying. They dont get spooky or jumpy from the cow in heat gel either. We've had cows just coming storming into a call set up, and just stop and start walking and looking around for the elk she heard.
In Utah, we had 15 cows and calves walk by me three feet away while I layed on the ground next to a game trail. Not once did they stop to look down at me. The morning before, we had a 300ish bull seven steps away from me, drooling and screaming looking for the cow he had heard just a few moments ago. He stood there and walked around for over ten minutes before I screamed at him and ran at him to run him off, and that drove the big herd bull nuts!!
While working a couple bulls that were hanging around a wallow one morning, seven cows came in behind us, and never once did they stop or get spooky, and I know they had to cross our wind. But with all the other elk right there in that area, they never spooked.If only a big bull would of followed them in.
Like I stated earlier, we didnt have bulls hang up when we had a mist laid out...seems once they hit that area, they knew other elk were around somewhere. And satelite bulls, in a hurry to come in to get a cow, just walk right in to us. Guess thats why we shot so many fives and lil sixes...

[T/H]

there are several reasons i dont use the stuff. 1 i always try to hunt the wind and 2 i want to smell the elk themselves without any other odors distracting my nose.

[buglmin]

When you smell elk, you aint smelling urine. The smell you smell is their musk, not their urine. There is a big difference in the urine smell. Elk urine dont smell like elk. Havent you ever smelled urine from a bed, or when you cut that nasty urine stained black off the belly of a bull...it dont smell like that sweet, musky smell you smell when you put your face against their side. If urine smelled like that, then I would make sure my clothes smelled like that. I love that smell!!!

[Lefty]

buglmin
Good stuff thanks for the enlightenment.
I can now see how urine can be effective in some calling situations.
Where can fresh urine be purchasesd and the cost. I would think cow urine would be best,.. wouldnt it? or not?
Is there such a bottle that wont leak and still have a good sprayer? How much is sprayed per location 1? 2? 10 oz?
Im careful with trapping lures and urines ,.. but I can still smell my skunky gear bag downwind

[buglmin]

I dunno where to buy good urine anymore. Paul had said something bout a guy in Idaho that was selling some.
I always used a lil spray bottle that held bout 8 to 10 ounces. And I never had problems with leaking. I kept an extra bottle in my pack in two zip lock bags, and you really couldnt smell it. I kept the bottle I would use in my pants pocket, always close by.
As for how much, I dunno, just sprayed when I felt I needed it.
Abe would use a big bottle that he could shoot a stream out of, and he would spray lil bulls that came in. As far as cow or bull. the only cow scent I carried was the cow in heat gel, which I kept in double bags as well.
The nicest thing bout urine is it doesnt stay on your hands like coyote or cat lure does. The lures we used to get from MIlligan Brand was just plain terrible smelling...but man, that cat man do sure caught the cats!!

[Lefty]

The nicest thing bout urine is it doesnt stay on your hands like coyote or cat lure does. The lures we used to get from MIlligan Brand was just plain terrible smelling...but man, that cat man do sure caught the cats!!

Didnt know that about elk urine,..


Never used any of Rays lures, My booth was next to his one year,.He had leaking still fementing stuff at his table,... I know a lot of guys liked his coyote bait because it had "reach". A few of my friends in the trapping business still sell his lures

After this summer I decided I needed to put in some effort this fall,.. I was going to hit a trout stream for rats beaver and otter,.. but my leg doesnt handle walking in current or mud,.. so I switched to the idea of chasing cats
I really dont know much about cat trapping, caught a few while living in Washington state 15 years ago ,.. just blind sets
Made a few cats sets . the past few days I have some sand drying for coyotes sets Im really not a fan of western canines,.. super flea factories

Im using old lure based stuff; tainted but not rank beaver meat and castor smells like a good cheese , a friend likes mink gland so thats what I put in the bag for tomarrow, ahe also sprays coyote urine, another buddy likes skunk as a LDC and castor ,.. I found two cartons of Beirmans LDC always liked the smell of that stuff
I went thru my lures that have been stored for 20 years, What was in plasitic is bad( (canine bait ). lost a lot of mink and all the cat gland in certian bottles. Even had skunk gland evaporates in glass bottles with plastic lids
I did have some coyote urine in glass that looked and smelled fine ,.

[ElkNut1]

In a nutshell my son & I have called in hundreds of bulls & cows, we've yet to use a decoy or any type of scent products in aiding our call ins. We use elk sounds if anything at all & I suspect because of our success in doing so we just haven't looked elsewhere for additional aid! Although I have carried Elk Urine with me it rarely ever gets the cap off, couldn't mention what year that even was that it last happened! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Swede]

We use and do those things that work for us. I have never been a big user of scent, but have toyed around with it. Urine is mostly an attractant. What I am wondering is if, for a tree stand hunter, it will cause the same reaction by a bull as a decoy or a call. I have found that calling from a stand will have a positive effect on occasion, but more often it works against you. The same applys to decoys around a water hole. Some critters are curious about them, some are cautious but tolerant, and others see the decoy and take off. Since calling from a stand tells other elk in the area that there is an elk at the water hole, and a decoy tells them there is an elk there, would not urine do the same thing? Why would a bull come in to a scent and not a call if they are attracted to other elk. I get the cow in heat estrus thing, but I have no way of procurring and keeping fresh etrus scent.

[buglmin]

Urine is not an attractant. If you were working cotoyes, or maybe cats, or wild horses, yes, but elk dont urinate to mark their territory. Urine is just urine, and used to help with the human odor. By misting, youre using the urine to help put a smell out on top of the human odor, to show that although humans have been through the area, elk were there after.
I dont like decoys, never had any luck using them. And the way I set up, the elk have to come up over a rise to look over, or come around heavy cover to see the other elk. I try to never give a bull a vantage point, where he can stop and look and see elk. Thats why a lot of bulls hang up, cause they reach a spot where they should see the cows or bull, and dont. And thats what makes them tense and nervous.
Urine, I guess you could say, is a calming thing. It shows that other elk are in the area, or very recently been through the area.
When hunting rutting whitetails, a drag rag is used to lead a buck where you want him to make a killing shot. A dripping doe estrus is used to make a buck stop at a certain spot, or if used in a scrape, to make a buck come into the scrape. This shows him a doe in estrus is around somewhere. And yessir, to make him look for her. Using cow estrus around a pond tells a bull that a cow in estrus was there earlier. And he will start looking for that cow, bugling to try to locate.
You learn to use scents as way to increase the odds in your favor. Just like whitetail hunters, some swear by it, and some dont.

[Swede]

Buglmin, you make a lot of sense. Notice how careful I was to spell "sense" and not "scents". LOL That is why I never noticed any significant change in elk useage around my stand area, when I put out an elk urine soaked rag on a bush. As I have written before, I am sure that my urine on the ground around my stand has zero effect on both deer and elk. I have had deer come and eat the small bush I relieved myself on 10 minutes earlier. Would it be an exaggeration to say that the stale urine, the elk peed into those bottles and is shipped to your local archery dealer, is useless, especially around a tree stand?

[Swede]

Buglmin, in post 14 you said "I never said the urine was used as a cover up". In your last post you wrote "Urine is not an attractant". I started thinking about those two statements and they just don't add up in my mind. Scents as used by hunters are one or the other. From the earlier posts you made, it certainly appears that the urine was working to bring in the elk. In other words it is an attractant. Please explain your thoughts if you would. Thanks.

[buglmin]

In one of my posts, I referred to using the urine as a calming agent. When elk come in, one of the first things they pick up is the smell of other elk that been there. When elk smell other elk, they arent as skittish as they come in. I also talked about how the elk urine would mix with the human smell, helping to calm down the elk cause the elk smell would be stronger then the human smell. The same thing as walking into a bull to set up...by misting, if the wind swirls, the elk scent would be mixed with the human scent, and the humen scent wouldnt be as strong.
With todays scent free soaps, bacteria killing clothing, and personal hygene, keeping human smell down is extremely possible, even on long extended hunting trips. And with the use of misting, the elk urine smell mixing with the low human smell, you dont have as many elk catching just a slight wiff of you and blowing out.

[Swede]

Thanks Buglmin for your explanation. I believe conversations like the one on this thread are an excellent way for us to increase out knowledge and understanding of hunting. I would like to see more discussions like these, as they are enjoyable as well as informative.

[buglmin]

Youre welcome. It seems that the old things we used to do are starting to loose their place in now adays. Seems that more and more people are putting more on calling then anything else. In the Gila, when we first started hunting it, we were told not to call too much, the bulls would clam up. But being the very aggressive callers my cousin and I are, we soon had bulls just tearing up things. You never know till you try. With the woods full of 'elk experts' every year, by the end of the season, bulls have heard every type of bugle and cow call there is. At times, just a lil something out of the old playbook will put a bull in your lap.
Merry Christmas to you and yours...