Wapiti Talk | Elk Hunting Forum | Elk Hunting Tips
 

Help with calling scenario

Moderators: Swede, Tigger, Lefty, Indian Summer, WapitiTalk1

Help with calling scenario

Postby 7mmfan » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 1]

I'm coming to the group with my tail between my legs, looking for advice. It's taken me until now to admit that I messed up and watched (heard) the biggest bull I've ever seen in the woods disappear into the abyss with his cows in tow, while I had a rifle in my hand, inside 300 yards. Here is the scenario and how it unfolded.

Date: October 15
Time: 2 hours after first light
Weather: Cold, 2" fresh snow, strong WNW wind, 10-15, gusts higher

I spotted the herd moving off an open face over into a draw of intermittently burned/unburned timber, with some very thick regrowth in some areas. I believe I watched every animal come through one gap in my spotting scope, approximately 800 yards away. I only saw one bull. He was a mammoth 6x6 with a crown on one side. I watched him rake several trees before disappearing into the timber. I never heard a bugle but could faintly hear cow talk from time to time. I watched the whole herd go into the timber and not come out, so I assumed they had bedded down. Where they were I had no approach from down wind, but could get within a couple hundred yards crosswind. I got as close as I could, on a point of the ridge across from where I had last seen them. Over the next 10 minutes I was able to glass between 15 and 20 cows bedded in the timber across from me, all within 200 yards. I could not find the bull. I assumed he was bedded higher up on the hill in the thicker regrowth. It seemed to me they had bedded awful early considering the weather conditions, and lack of pressure in the area. I had 4 choices as I saw it at the time.

1. Lay there and wait, hoping the bull would show himself
2. Try to approach from another direction but risk being winded
3. Back out completely and watch from a distance, and then try to make a move on them when they moved later in the day.
4. Try a calling sequence to see if I could get the bull fired up.

Since I had seen him raking trees before bedding, and I didn't see any other bulls in the group, I decided that I had a high likelihood of being able to call to this bull and get him to show himself. I started with cow calls. Nothing fancy, just cow talk. I did this for approximately 5 minutes. All the elk stayed calm and in their beds. One or two were up feeding. They paid me no mind. I then progressed with a weak bugle. This got the cows attention. Over the course of the next 5 minutes I cow called and bugled intermittently, nothing aggressive. Then I started a cow in estrus call, and a nervous cow call with a more aggressive bugle, trying to sound like a bull herding a cow off. All of a sudden, all the cows were up, and headed up the ridge towards where I'd last seen the bull. I hustled up there and all I found was their tracks in the snow where they had convened and then headed down towards the bottom of a hell hole I wasn't prepared to go into.

SO. Obviously what I did didn't work. It seems the bull didn't want to talk, he just rounded his cows up and hit the trail. Based on the information I gave you above. Is there a calling sequence that you think may have been more likely to work? Hindsight says I should have just backed out and found a vantage point to watch from until they moved later in the day, but I still feel like that bull was callable.

Let me have it. What would YOU do in this scenario?
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
User avatar
7mmfan
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 07, 2017
Location: Washington State

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby 7mmfan » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 2]

Also worth noting, the following day, I heard a bull bugle a few times, but while in route to him I crossed paths with a nice buck and chose to kill it. I never got to the bull that day. The NEXT day, the 17th, now two full days after my first encounter I spotted a herd with multiple bulls in it. All told there was probably 30 animals and 5 bulls in this group. I shot the spike because he was the only one I could see and get a shot at. After the shot, the herd moved off over the ridge and proceeded to have a 30 minutes bugle fest. Bugling almost incessantly for 20-30 minutes.

That information given to show that even at that point in October, bulls were with cows still and actively bugling/rutting.
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
User avatar
7mmfan
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 07, 2017
Location: Washington State

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby Trumkin the Dwarf » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 3]

I may be mistaken, but trying to mimic a bull hooking a cow away is not a high probability encounter choice unless you're very close to the herd. You sounded like another herd of elk to those cows, and you weren't close enough to piss the big boy off. But I've got almost no experience in successfully calling elk, so I'm going to sit back now and hope Paul chimes in.
User avatar
Trumkin the Dwarf
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 675
Joined: 06 14, 2013
Location: Montana
First Name: Malachi
Last Name: C

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby wawhitey » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 4]

Hijack: i too need help with a calling scenario

Today i was lion hunting a big chunk of land owned by a timber company that allows hunting. Long story short, found it illegally posted. Went to timber company office and confirmed signs are fraudulent. I know exactly who is posting it. And know right about where his deer stand is, having found his boot tracks back and forth from his property on the same path. So my question is, when i go back tomorrow to continue my lion hunt, do i use my loudest call or my most screechy obnoxious call? :twisted:
Real eyes realize real lies
User avatar
wawhitey
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 3572
Joined: 02 21, 2013
Location: Stevens co, WA

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby 7mmfan » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 5]

wawhitey wrote:Hijack: i too need help with a calling scenario

Today i was lion hunting a big chunk of land owned by a timber company that allows hunting. Long story short, found it illegally posted. Went to timber company office and confirmed signs are fraudulent. I know exactly who is posting it. And know right about where his deer stand is, having found his boot tracks back and forth from his property on the same path. So my question is, when i go back tomorrow to continue my lion hunt, do i use my loudest call or my most screechy obnoxious call? :twisted:


Screechy and obnoxious for sure.
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
User avatar
7mmfan
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 07, 2017
Location: Washington State

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby 7mmfan » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 6]

Trumkin the Dwarf wrote:I may be mistaken, but trying to mimic a bull hooking a cow away is not a high probability encounter choice unless you're very close to the herd. You sounded like another herd of elk to those cows, and you weren't close enough to piss the big boy off. But I've got almost no experience in successfully calling elk, so I'm going to sit back now and hope Paul chimes in.


The thought that I wasn't close enough did cross my m9nd at the time, but it was the best I could do. I estimated him to be within 250 yards. Was really just hoping for an answer to get a better location on him.
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
User avatar
7mmfan
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 07, 2017
Location: Washington State

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby Lefty » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 7]

I figure the jerk is keeping others away too. So more private hunting.

But it could be entertaining if he comes out in the dark
Any cat scream or even dying rabbit sounds could be fun
User avatar
Lefty
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 6926
Joined: 06 25, 2012
Location: Pocatello Idaho
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: H

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby Swede » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 8]

Trying to get the big bull to leave his cows and cross an opening to encounter an unseen bull seems like a highly unlikely proposition. Of the alternatives you described, I liked the sound of just staying put and waiting.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby Elkhunttoo » 11 30, 2020 •  [Post 9]

Early in the morning, cold, and a few hundred yards away ...I think they would move a bit on and off in the timber through out the day. Watching might of been my go to at this time...but if I decide to call I think I would of went with a bugle. If I can see cows all I want to do is try and move the bull in between the cows and I. Not aggressive at all but every 7-8 minutes for 5-6 bugles just to see if it moves him.....and of course this would of worked setting here playing Monday morning quarterback :D
Elkhunttoo
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1160
Joined: 05 23, 2016

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby >>>---WW----> » 12 01, 2020 •  [Post 10]

There is a time for calling and a time to be quiet! Your first choice was the correct one. Pack a lunch, make yourself comfortable, and wait him out. Eventually he would have gotten up to check his cows out. No need to rush it or mess things up with a calling sequence. 200 yards with a 7 mag should be a slam dunk!!!!
User avatar
>>>---WW---->
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 2351
Joined: 05 27, 2012

Re: Help with calling scenario

Postby 7mmfan » 12 01, 2020 •  [Post 11]

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 right? I wasn't really trying to "call him in" as much as just show himself maybe, or even just respond so I could ID where he was. I didn't get any of that, they just left.
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
User avatar
7mmfan
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 07, 2017
Location: Washington State


cron