Elk Country Scouting Plans/Methodology

[WapitiTalk1]

So campers, there is an old poem that says “In the springtime, a young man’s fancy lightly turns to elk country scouting”. I may have the words mixed up a bit but I like this version better than the original.

Are you going to head into the elk woods and do some scouting this summer? What is your game plan while there? Checking elk pops via some glassing, checking sign, checking bull quality, clearing some access trails down/up to some “spots”, dropping some trail cams and attractant (if legal in your elk state of course), hang three rolls of orange engineer tape on branches so I don't get lost walking to/from a wallow spot, prepping a few tree stand sites, cutting/splitting/stacking some firewood for base camp, stashing some gear (again, if legal in your elk state) for backcountry hunts, clearing blow down off the one horse road to your preferred base camp site, scout a few new spots in your general area that you haven’t been to yet, check to see if that ½ case of leftover beer is still chillin’ in the creek, popping a few reflective trail tacks in firs on the way to a deep spot or two, etc.?

Or perhaps “no, I don’t need to do any stinking scouting, I’ve hunted my elk area for years….. There is no reason to stink it up with my foul city stench”.

Thought this would be a good thread for the old salts to chime in on and the newer cats to learn a bit from. I’ve actually had hunters ask me what I do when I go scouting.

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[Swede]

I late July and early August, I plan to be scouting again. To boil it down to the basics, I am looking for good locations to hang a tree stand. I plan to set out some trail cameras and check ingress and egress to different areas. I have a bunch of spots I have identified over the Fall, Winter and Spring where I want to put some boots on the ground. Ideally it would be great to find four or five spots on a week long scouting trip. After leaving the cameras out for a month, if I have a couple of good spots, I am satisfied.
What I am looking for are spots where I can predict with reasonable assurance elk will come to my location, where I can get a good shot at them. I keep written notes on my potential tree stand locations and rate them on a scale of one to five. Springs, wallows, trails and saddles can be good. I prefer a spot with multiple trails going by a spring with a wallow nearby. If the trails are being used heavily and the spring shows good sign of use, I can get excited. Fresh and old rub trees in the vicinity including along the trails really helps. If four or five trails come together at a spring, I will put a camera there even if it is not showing sign of recent use. Often elk don't come in every day or so. If it has rained recently those mountain thunder storms may wash out any fresh sign so I need to set a camera there to do some monitoring for me.

[Tigger]

Too far away. I will be doing no scouting. But I do have to find a spot to hunt deer in Region C WY. Both of my 12 year old sons drew deer tags and I do not really have a spot lined up (we do for antelope, but not deer). So we will have to do some internet scouting.

But if I was scouting, I would be looking for last season's rubs. I also might lasso a bull and tie him to a tree with plenty of food and water nearby. Don't forget to GPS that tree!

[Elkhunttoo]

With Idaho results in I can focus now on my for sure weapon. My bow will be in my hand come fall and so my preparation will be slightly different then if I drew a rifle tag.

I’m going to start off with the knowledge I learned last year during the archery hunt. In July I’m hoping to set up trail cameras and start on ground blinds. then In August I will finish up the blinds. I’m blessed to live about an hour and a half away from where I hunt with half of that a dirt road.

The area I plan on spending almost all of next years hunt is an area we discovered last season. I’ve always skirted around the edges of it but last year was able to find the first area in this unit where I will be comfortable sitting. Hoping the trail cameras in August will give us a good idea of the best areas to be come opening day.

[>>>---WW---->]

Scouting for me is basically nonexistent. I usually hunt the same areas year after year. I pretty much know where the elk like to hanging out most of the time. Elk are a lot like me. They also hang out in the same places year after year unless terribly disturbed.

I never do any summer scouting. Bulls tend to hang out in bachelor groups . And if you find them during the summer scouting trips and think you have hit the jackpot, well, you had better think again. The bachelor groups usually break up just prior to the rut. So when I'm out looking around early in the season, I'm not looking for rubs and other bull sign .Oh I do notice them but just don't get too excited over them. Remember, when you find elk sign, it only tells you where they were, not where they are unless it is still smoking hot sign. I'm looking for cows! My theory is , (Where I find the cows, that is where the bulls will be hanging out in September)! When that first cow comes in estrus, every bull in the vicinity will show up.

If I'm looking over some new country, I usually do it during the first week of archery season when the bulls are still quiet. That way I can scout out the new territory and yet still be hunting if the situation presents itself.

I hear lots of guys every year get all excited and swear the rut is on because they saw a 4 or 5 point bull with a herd of cows. Don't get your shorts all waded up over this. These are usually youngsters that haven't let go of mommys apron strings. But hey! If that turns you on, go for it. Just remember, when that first cow comes in heat, there will be bigger and better bulls in the herd.

[Lefty]

,,,,,, They also hang out in the same places year after year unless terribly disturbed.,,,,,.

In times past I scouted and hiked my hunting area to get to know them better. And maybe that years population and grazing changes. But I also only mostly had Saturdays to hunt. So scouting was often just moments of time saved during the season. And Time spent in the woods( or desert) . The year I changed to hunting the mountains I was joking with my wife how pretty the sunset was because my elk country was burning.
I dont like walking around the woods a day or two before season But I do like hiking/scouting where I hunt and trail cams are a kick in the pants.
It has happened a few times but I had a specific bull that I watched also. Also had a number of big bucks I had patterned. Wolves killed the bull and and ATV hunters blew the bucks off the hill opening morning.

E scouting can make ones life easy.
Historically I often set up traplines using public county transportation map, and road use indexes (sp?)
Moving to Idaho 16 years back I used Google Earth looking for habitat , lack of roads, public, and topography for big game and waterfowl


I also find a lot of satisfaction just being in elk country!! And I can tell you I spend a lot of time in someones elk country all summer long. If its a place to hike or ride too with in 150 miles ,.. My wife and I likely have been there.

[Billy Goat]

our bunch is hunting a new state (WY) in 2021, so this summer I'm taking a week to go up there with half my hunt party.

Our goals are as follows:
1. road and boot scout about 5 units (two of which I already prefer because of what I'm seeing on GE/paper maps)
2. identify and waypoint every "good" campsite location we encounter in each of those for possible use in Oct 2021
3. select a unit before we return home
4. prioritize our preferred campsites in that unit (and why)
5. identify preferred basins for specific hunt planning
6. enjoy the scenery
7. have a good time
8. identify local logistical options (food/resources, packers, meat processors, possible guide resources for two of our group who may be interested in one)

If I was a smart man (and I'm not), I'd be scouting our 2020 area, but we've hunted it 4x already and think we know it fairly well already. I WILL be contacting the Forestry Service to get an update on logging activity to see where they are active currently.

[saddlesore]

I won't be scouting my Muzzle loader hunt.The elk have been there the last 7years or so. Outfitter friend of mine where I get water for the stock told me at present there are elk all over the place and dropping calves.

How ever 2020 will be my first archery hunt with a new crossbow. My ML tag is "B"tag, so I can pickup an either sex or cow tag in an OTC unit. I plan to go into a unit I hunted years ago and did quite well with a rifle for many years, but the elk herd was shot to heck by CPW screwing up. I have heard the elk have started to rebound . I was in there about 4 years ago and it has sure grown up. Hopefully, I can make up there in late July or August to check it out and find a camp spot.

Lat time I was there,these critters came past camp while I was having coffee.

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[WapitiTalk1]

Some funny looking elk down your way Vince . Best of luck I your Xbox hunt this fall mister.

[Billy Goat]

Some funny looking elk down your way Vince . Best of luck I your Xbox hunt this fall mister.

I think that was supposed to say Xbow.

for some reason, I suspect Vince doesnt play Xbox.

[ElkNut1]

WW's post is money!

ElkNut

[Swede]

WW's post is money!

Well maybe. I can surely show you areas that held elk in the past where they are rare now. Many factors can change the habitability of an area for elk. Here are just some that come to mind. Cattle and sheep grazing, logging, fires, regrowth from fires, preditor numbers, and the State changing the hunting opportunities affecting hunting pressure. Maybe all of these are what Bill had in mind when he wrote "unless terribly disturbed". Where is the collective tipping point on habitat change and outside pressures? You won't find it on Google Earth.
To me it seems wrong to say "remember, when you find elk sign, it only tells you where they were, …". Do you want to go where the elk sign is all three months or more old, and hope to find them there? I prefer to hunt where there is recent sign. It does not have to be "still smoking hot" to suggest they are in the area.

[saddlesore]

Yea, those pesky cows will drive elk out.

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[saddlesore]

Some funny looking elk down your way Vince :

Ok,other is side of mountain.

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[Swede]

The problems of elk displacement by cattle is well documented from scientific observations and discussed in the book Elk of North America Ecology and Management, by Jack Ward Thomas and Dale E. Toweill. See pages 418-423.
"Because of their strong similarities, elk probably compete more with cattle than any other species." "In their relationship with cattle, elk apparently assume a subordinate role, and rates of elk use of an area will decrease as cattle use increases." Elk left the immediate vicinity when cattle were introduces, many moving from a management unit. After cattle were removed, elk were not observed to use the management unit except for areas that were ungrazed." "Skowlin et al. (1868) reported from Oregon that elk use was significantly lower on ranges cohabited by cattle than on ranges where cattle use was restricted."
I would add that comments like those above are shown on several States.
It is also noted; "Little evidence has been reported of elk intolerance toward cattle on winter range." pg. 423 para 3.
These are just some comments I read about the competition between elk and cattle.

[saddlesore]

I guess Colorado elk never read that study.The picture I posted are a small part of the 600-800 head of elk that move to that ranch right after the first shot is fired in early September. That ranch runs about 500 head of beef. I hunt the country adjacent to that ranch. Another rancher has a grazing permit for the NF for up to 600 cow calf pairs depending how the grass grows any particular year where I hunt.. I have done fairly well over the years except when CPW decided there were too many elk and issued either sex tags for a few years until the herd was cut in half. Where I ML hunt they run about 2000 head of sheep all summer After they take the sheep out,the elk get pushed back into that are by archery season and ML season.

The problem with all those studies, usually done by fresh out of eastern schools 4 year wonders,is they study a herd that has no other outside influences.

Put cattle in one area, elk, and hunters into another close area, and the elk will choose the cattle over hunters every time. Same with forage.When it runs out on FS land, the elk will move right in with cattle to get at the big hay stacks or when ranchers roll out round bales to feed.Usually elk will move out when cattle are present because the land has been over grazed and the elk go search for better more forage. See quote above "elk were not observed to use the management unit except for areas that were ungrazed ". A good bit of elk wintering grounds are on private cattle ranches in Colorado

Colorado has the Ranching for Wildlife program. In return for more hunting seasons the ranches are required to give a small percentage of tags to the general public. All those big ranches raise beef and the public tags are coveted. Many taking 6-10points to draw and the ranchers have no trouble selling their private r tags. When I got my moose tag on a RFW property a few years back there were cattle, moose and elk in the same pasture that was a few thousand acres

[WapitiTalk1]

Some funny looking elk down your way Vince :

Ok,other is side of mountain.

DSCN1258 (2).JPG

Cripes! Nice group o' bulls.

[saddlesore]

IMHO,the hardest problem to solve is what do the elk do in your hunting area from hunting pressure/other hunters.Where do they go? What path do they take to get there?
You can study all you want about what elk do in their normal day to day life, but that mostly goes out the window when hunting season arrives

[Swede]

IMHO,the hardest problem to solve is what do the elk do in your hunting area from hunting pressure/other hunters. Where do they go?

Whereas I agree with a lot of what Vince has to say on elk movement, I do not think it detracts from the benefit of preseason scouting. I like scouting right after my hunt too as it helps answer some of the questions of where did they go? We (myself included) have advised people to ask knowledgeable people like biologists and range technicians where they think the elk are, often they speak in generalities and really don't know either. Usually a few of the field techs know, but they won't all say.
The bottom line is things disturb the elk and they can move. the more you know about your area the better off you will be with your hunt. Some have said it takes about four years to learn an area. My experience says it is more like seven years.