Shoot or No Shot 2020, Episode #6

[WapitiTalk1]

Season/Hunt: Partner Hunt; Archery, 3 Point or better bull tag
Time/Date/Location: 5:30ish PM, early September, in and elk state
Camp/gear: Backcountry hunt; living large in your 4-man tipi

You and your buddy are really enjoying your 7 day backcountry hunt in (insert elk state here). The elk have been vocal and you’ve had some close calls but no real shot opportunities yet. Today (this evening) you’ve each decided to each hunt a different area (about a mile apart as the crow flies) and see what you see (or hear). On this very nice flat bench, you find a series (two or three) of recently used small wallows and decide to sit a bit and listen. Not hearing anything, you decide to throw out a couple of whiny cow calls and see if anything responds. Not a peep in return….. After sitting there a bit longer (25 yards from the wallow you see), you hear and see a bull coming in from your left (gee, I’ve never had a bull come in silent). You draw as he enters the small opening and….. he stops in the wallow where you see him now and his first move is to dig in the mud with his front right leg. You’re at full draw, 25ish yards from the pawing bull, in the direction of the yellow arrow. Thermals are downhill now (left to right).


Shoot or no shot here? If not shooting now, what are your immediate plans to bring this bull home for dinner?

WallowElkA.jpg (98.94 KiB) Viewed 7725 times

Reminder that if you save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg and add the marked up pic with your post.

[saddlesore]

No shot,Shoulder is too close for a probable heart shot. A person would have to be able to thread one right of the shoulder,bu left of the brisket. If he is at the wallow, it won't be long until he turns to present a better angle. Can you hold the full draw that long?
The thing that separates true a hunter from everyone else is the ability to wait for a shot presentation that offers a quick clean kill. Rifle, archery, spear ,makes no difference.

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

I'm with SaddleSore. But I probably wouldn't have hit full draw in that situation. Recurve, ya know...

I'm gonna wait till he turns enough for me to draw unseen, and I'll have my shot angle at the same time.

[Tigger]

interesting how you can see the bone structure > just above his leg. I am waiting. He is moving and your shot will very soon change. Mmmm, backstraps for supper. My biggest worry is he dies in that mudhole. that would suck.

[Swede]

Whack

WallowElkA.jpg (84.3 KiB) Viewed 7711 times

[Lefty]

Swede with a rifle Im moving that shot forward

WallowElkA.jpg

My dad and his best friend hammered us kids there was only one (rifle)shot for all big game , behind the crease.
So Im hesitating,..

Then my brain engages
Then waiting,.. that bull will give the right shot soon enough

[Swede]

I have to admit I have taken a shot at about 25 yards that was very similar to the one shown. The biggest difference was that the other bull's head and shoulders were behind a tree. Still what was offered me was essentially the same. The bull piled up about 60 yards away. I heard the crash as he went into a pile. Experience has taught me to take the first shot opportunity that will result in a clean kill. Experience has shown me that shot is very doable. Experience has taught me that if you pass on a good shot, you may not get another.
In this situation I am already at full draw. If I let down slowly, the wind could shift or something else could spook that bull and he is gone forever.

[saddlesore]

I don't know Swede.That looks like a gut shot to me

[Tigger]

I agree with Saddlesore. If that isn't a gut shot, miss by 2" to the left and it for sure is. Not enough room for error for me. that leg is moving. it will come forward next and …...PfffffffffffffffffttttWAP! Total wait time from picture is about .6 seconds.

Now what Swede's shot might get is the diaphragm. If he does, that is ballgame right there. But let's be honest here, Swede, you would never take that shot in reality now would you. Tell us why. A very simple reason.

[Swede]

This evening I will try to post a picture of the bull I killed with that shot. I figured if it did not die almost immediately I would back out and come back in a couple of hours. I had help just sitting in a tree stand across the canyon. I figured if I did not make an immediate kill it would hit the liver. The arrow put him down as quick as almost any great shot, and quicker than most. I have had a couple of elk drop on the spot, but I do not want to get another issue started.
Guys, I am not advocating anyone take a shot they are not confident in. I thought about the shot before I squeezed the trigger on my release. I will admit, I was a little surprised he piled up so soon. I knew it would not go far if I did not push it, and remembered reading in a magazine; add one hour to your wait for every inch you hit too far back. I calculated it would be 2 inched farther back that I would normally consider a 10.

085.JPG (94.88 KiB) Viewed 7666 times

This is the bull I shot that saw very similar in position to the one RJ started this thread out on. There is a little more of the story on the first elk thread.

[Tigger]

Swede, this is kind of a riddle, but I surmise you would never be taking that shot. Why do I think that?

[Lefty]

,,,,,,,, Experience has taught me that if you pass on a good shot, you may not get another.,,, and he is gone forever.

Some of my greatest memories are fish and game , gone forever.
I pulled up on a coyote in a fox trap. I knew I shouldn't kill him. His fur incredible, silky silver. I was wondering but how to bring him home alive, and get him to a friends fox farm . He pulled out of the trap, ran 20 yards and stopped and stared , and stared. I had plenty of time to shoot him, but the moment was too wonderful.
Ive gotten to the point where some wont hunt with me,.. Ive have a strange sense of fair play.




gotta go,.. wifes calling

[Swede]

Swede, this is kind of a riddle, but I surmise you would never be taking that shot. Why do I think that? Post details Re: Shoot or No Shot 2020, Episode #6

I try to size up every shot. I know where the arrow will enter and where it will exit if it passes through. I know what it will pass through. Anything else is a miss. As a hunter if you have ever missed, you took a risk and failed. Maybe it was a clean miss, but since you did not hit what you aimed for the rest was luck.
I have passed on some easy shots. Something was not right considering the way I saw it. That happened again last season. I have taken a few shots I wish I could get back. To be honest, I am still in training. I think I would take the shot, but I would hate to try and convince anyone to take any high risk shots. No doubt there was some risk in the shot where I am thinking "the wind is upslope, so I can slip out of here and come back later if he does not drop very near."

[ishy]

Too cool of a show, I'm slipping my trigger finger to the back of my neck to help eek out a few more seconds hoping he'll offer a little less obstructed view of vitals before I shake to death. That elbow is back farther than it looks at first!

[Swede]

I edited my post above to show the bull I killed that was in the same position as the one in the first post of the thread. I am not trying to say it is a great shot opportunity, but it did work out perfectly. A big part of the success I attribute to the 25-30 yard shot range.

[ishy]

That would be a lot better shot from a tree shooting down. It would get you above that elbow angling down! I like that a lot better.

[Swede]

That bull was on the hill above the base of my tree. It was a downward shot, but the angle was not great.

[Indian Summer]

You know me... always ready to shoot. Not this time. You’ll hear a loud whack and get zero penetration if you go for the lungs. If you put one behind that shoulder you’re in the guts. Besides I know Rory is about to post a better angle...

[Swede]

elk-vitals-diagram-9.jpg (859.6 KiB) Viewed 7648 times

Alright all of you doldrums and Nervous Nellies, here is another picture of your elk: If you can find the vital of the bull, you may be able to go home someday with a cooler full of meat instead of some goofy excuse you rehearsed over and over again on your trip home. Don't tell me that this picture is not perfectly the same as RJ's. It is close enough and you are never going to see a perfect copy in the wild. Extrapolate.

[WapitiTalk1]

Besides I know Rory is about to post a better angle...

Ha, not this time. That’s all ya get in this scenario.

[Indian Summer]

Swede that pic is like apples to oranges from the original!

[Swede]

Swede that pic is like apples to oranges from the original!

Well, let's see. In both pictures we have:
1. A big branched bull
2. Both bulls are at a wallow
3. Both bull are facing in the same direction
4. We see both bulls on their starboard side
5. They are both 25 yards away from you the shooter
6. They are both in the open
7. They are both generally standing broadside.
8. We have an unobstructed view of amply area to their vitals
9. Neither bull is looking our way
10. Both bulls are relaxed and unsuspecting, so we do not need to rush our shot
11. Both bulls have guts that are arranged basically the same way
12. Both bulls will have the same size vitals

I know their is some difference, but I do not have the skill to photoshop the original bull so you can see the vitals on him. I had to leave that one thing for you the viewer.
I know those vitals are there, and I can hit them, so I say "Whack".
Above I commented that when I decided to shoot a bull in a very similar position as the one RJ posted, I was prepared to back out if he did not die right away. I heard him crash to the ground. If I did not get a very quick kill, I would still hit the liver. He will not go far if you hit the liver and allow him to lay down. In that situation, be patient. It could take up to a couple of hours. He won't spoil.

[Lefty]

Swede I would agree there is a " better" shot from above. But Im not taking either,.. 2 seconds 5 seconds, 20 seconds the shot would likely be there.
With a rifle I would likely put a bullet right through that front should,.. and drop him in the wallow

I have never had "regret" not taking a shot I didnt take.

[Tigger]

Well I say Swede would never take that shot cuz he is at the same level as the bull. As a dedicated tree humper, I mean tree hugger, I mean tree stand hunter, Swede would be way above that critter. That ground level huntin' is for the rest of us common folk!

Angles are sooo important and even a slight change in angle coupled with a leg that is back changes it from no shot to a perfect shot.

[7mmfan]

I'm waiting. He is going to spinning and turning and causing a ruckus for some time, offering multiple shot angles. I'm strong, I've been shooting 50 arrows a day for 5 years. I can hold this cross bow all day long on my bipod

[Indian Summer]

Swede are you having fun stirring the pot to pass the quarantine time? That bull isn’t facing the same way. Look at the difference in the relationship between his right legs and left legs. I’d shoot the bull in your picture. But the legs are blocking anything I hope to hit in Rory’s original picture. The other important thing to remember is that he who stirs the $h1t has to lick the spoon!

[Swede]

I will definitely stir the pot to get a good discussion going. How did you guess that? I do not like to see things get too personal and ugly. That is never helpful. It may be that I just like stirring to see how you will react. Sometimes I do end up licking the spoon as you say. I believe debate and opinion can help people see more than just a yes or no answer. I will not purposely mislead anyone, but I am comfortable going in a direction that is apposed to the crowd. No one is required to follow my lead. I have tried things that I have had to end up saying "this is a bad idea", and going back. Sometimes things work out and I have broadened my horizons.

[Tigger]

Looks like Swede will be cleaning the corporate jet again. This time vacuum between the seats and get all the crumbs from IS's cookies!

This bull isn't leaving anytime soon and if he does, he has to move that leg up and then pfffttttthwack!

[Lefty]

Looks like Swede will be cleaning the corporate jet again. This time vacuum between the seats and get all the crumbs from IS's cookies!

What the heck!

Swede told me it was sold: so I would quit bugging everyone for just one trip!

[Swede]

Swede told me it was sold: so I would quit bugging everyone for just one trip!

It was not the trip that had me concerned so much, but Lefty was starting to become a nuisance. It was the tool box in his hand that had me shook up, and him telling me that with just a few "simple mods" he could get a lot more power out of the engine. I was lucky because Indian Joe was gone for the day with the plane and would not be back until well after Lefty was gone.
When I was a kid I got a dollar pocket watch for my birthday one year. Within a week or two I forgot and left it in my pocket and it went through the washing machine. It did not survive, but I thought I had nothing to lose by opening up the back. I had popped the cover off and was trying to blow out the water when dad walked by. "You know there are just two types of people that work on watches don't you; fools and jewelers." I think they same principle can be applied to jet mechanics.