Wapiti Talk | Elk Hunting Forum | Elk Hunting Tips
 

Wrong Impressions

Moderators: Swede, Tigger, Lefty, Indian Summer, WapitiTalk1

Wrong Impressions

Postby Swede » 04 08, 2020 •  [Post 1]

I am going to pick on young eastern wantabes or new elk hunters here a little. My intent is not to offend anyone, but to point out some misconceptions I read about on internet elk forums and give some perspective for some of us with a little more experience. I would invite anyone with a thought on the subject to post here.
One question I read about is, am I tough enough? I wonder why that is a question. Maybe you are not tough enough to take on some hunts, but unless you are severely handicapped you are capable of effectively hunting and killing elk. You do not have to hike in five plus miles and set up a spike camp. I would not say that is even an advantage in many areas. I have never gone in to camp that far. I have wandered that far back, but came out the same day. I have never killed an elk that far in. I have killed a lot of elk 1/5 of a mile from my truck.
Another question I read about could be condensed to "Can I call good enough?" Can you blow into a tube or squeeze a rubber ball? First thing to consider a call is a tool, and nothing more. You can get along well without a call if you want. If you want to call, decide what you are trying to accomplish. Remember with calling more is not always better. It is better to stay quiet than to run around making noise. RMEF with their elk calling contest, and internet gurus and their cult like following make it seem that calling is the very essence of elk hunting. Calls are a tool. Calls are optional and only in some situation will they improve your chances.
Aren't the elk on the north face during archery season? Sure they are, but they are on the south, east and west slopes also. Don't get yourself fixed into thinking elk have to be where some have claimed they go. Elk can go just about anywhere.
Another idea is, do I need this or that gadget? I must have bought as much as anyone including everything from fancy camo to slick bow attachments. Bows and arrows have improved immensely over the years and we not have GPS and range finders to make us better hunters, but as I have observed the statistics for hunter success over the years, it is amazing. Success has stayed relatively the same. If you don't have a lot of money to put into elk hunting, you can still get out and hunt. The most important thing is, to go and learn elk behavior, and where they live. Get out and experience the hunt and put in a 100% effort. Just don't give up.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby saddlesore » 04 08, 2020 •  [Post 2]

"It is better to stay quiet than to run around making noise."

That could apply to a lot of people Swede, not just elk calling
User avatar
saddlesore
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 2162
Joined: 11 07, 2015
Location: Colorado Springs,CO

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby 7mmfan » 04 08, 2020 •  [Post 3]

I don't blame people starting out for asking a lot of questions, and often what may be deemed dumb questions. If you don't know, you don't know and you need someone to tell you. You are right that the best way to figure these things out is to go out and do it. I don't think most people's time is any more limited these days than it was say 30- years ago, but it sure feels like it is. When you live in Athens, GA, and you want to go elk hunt in Colorado, that's a daunting task both from a financial and time perspective. Most guys that are planning their first western Elk hunt, are doing a lot of the research on forums, and watching elk hunting videos on YouTube. Most YouTube videos are not of guys truck camping and walking 1/4 mile to their tree stand Swede, so it make sense to me that most of these guys think it is necessary to hike 5 miles in and spike camp. Most of those videos also show guys blowing incessantly on bugles and cow calls, so again, it would make sense to them that this is a necessary skill set. Hopefully they have a good time, find some modicum of success, and come back enough times to figure out what they NEED to be successful and what is superfluous.

When I planned my first out of state hunt, I found myself paralyzed from lack of information. I had 5 days of vacation to use, and it was going to cost me nearly $1000 just for tags. I wanted to make sure that when I got to where I was going, I had the best opportunity at success possible. For me that meant planning the hunt for two years. Despite already being a Western hunter who had killed elk and mule deer, I started researching the intricacies of the animals and learning more finite details of how to pursue them because I wasn't going to be able to just go to the spots that I knew I would be able to find them like I do at home. I asked a lot of dumb questions, and obvious ones, and ones that really didn't need to be asked. But I weeded through all the negative, BS and positive feedback and compiled it all into a fairly neat little package that helped me feel confident when I hit the road for our trip. I also watched a lot of videos, and picked up some very useful bits of information from them.

Just take it easy on the newbies Swede, we were all new at one point. Even you were. :D
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
User avatar
7mmfan
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 07, 2017
Location: Washington State

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Swede » 04 08, 2020 •  [Post 4]

To be sure we want only to encourage new hunters, and I agree that they need good information. What I want to share are common fallacies and wrong impressions left by hunters. I think good information is information you can effectively use. The wrong impression is; that the tool I use is the essence or basis of success.
If I say a tree stand will make you successful, that is wrong. A tree stand is only a tool that if used correctly in the right area will give you an advantage that can lead to success. It will not make you a success. Reading the tree stand book will not make you a success either. You will need to read your hunting situation and apply what you learned to get to where you can make the most of that tree stand and what you read in the book.
The wrong impressions I see are coming from internet posts and threads suggesting that the elk are five miles back from the road. If that is so, it should discourage most people from elk hunting. It would me. The great news is that whole idea is nonsense. We can get elk much closer in. I do not need to be 200 pounds and in perfect physical condition to be a successful elk hunter.
The good news also is that a newbie does not need to be intimidated by a huge learning curve we have little time for. Sure, read books and watch some videos, but most important is get out and give it a try. You do not need to set on the side and wish. Elk hunting is not brain surgery or rocket science. I only wish the cost could be reduced, as that still is the most difficult problem to overcome for so many.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby 7mmfan » 04 08, 2020 •  [Post 5]

Swede I agree with you. It's not rocket science and you don't need fancy equipment or to be a triathlete. Get out there and give it a go.
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
User avatar
7mmfan
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 07, 2017
Location: Washington State

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Swede » 04 08, 2020 •  [Post 6]

Another false impression I see newbies get is that; if they follow some guru's advise, they will be instantly successful. If you believe that, you can get very discouraged. I hope you become addicted and challenged to score. Often the first elk is your hardest to get.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Indian Summer » 04 10, 2020 •  [Post 7]

I’m a public land mountain hunter. No big secrets or fast tracks to success here. Find a good area. Learn it. Get up early and hunt every day like it’s the first day when you were full of confidence.

It goes without saying that you need to be sneaky. Obviously you need to keep evaluating what you see and make adjustments to exactly where and how you hunt. Calling can bring elk into range. It can run them off if done wrong. Tree stands offer great shooting opportunities at relaxed animals. But they won’t produce anything if your stand placement isn’t good or if you don’t stay put and let nature run it’s course. Some guys like still hunting. Some glass long distances. We’re all different and you need to do whatever you are confident with. Fords and Chevys will both get you there.

Animal instincts of which some people possess more than others are what can put you in the right place at the right time faster than some. For those who struggle with naturally gravitating toward elk, or deer, or whatever it is they pursue the learning curve will be flatter. But if you enjoy all aspects of what you are doing enough to stick with it you’ll kill elk just like anyone else.

It would probably be easier to list the things that will keep you from ever killing bulls. Half hearted efforts and a lack of preparation and persistence. It’s difficult to even get lucky if you don’t avoid those three things.
User avatar
Indian Summer
Wapiti Hunting Consultant
 
Posts: 5247
Joined: 06 14, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Ferraro

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby jmez » 04 10, 2020 •  [Post 8]

Mental toughness/expectations. This doesn't get talked about near as much as the "Mtn Athlete Toughness." This is where I think the majority of new guys, especially eastern hunters fail. The two things that contribute to this are land area and game density.

I grew up a white tail tree stand hunter in southeast NE. Incredible deer hunting. I'm not sure I ever went hunting and didn't see deer. Usually you would see a lot of deer. Then, on the way home in the headlights you would see a lot more. They are everywhere. The places you hunt them are not big. They aren't hard to find. There is a house every half mile.

You get out west and get on the side of a mountain and can see for 80 miles and there are 0 signs of civilization. That is hugely overwhelming for a guy that has never experienced that. Then couple that with a low density of the game you are hunting and you have a quick recipe for quitting. Growing up I could not even fathom a half day hunt and not seeing something, that didn't exist. Now go to a foreign place that is physically demanding, far bigger than anything you have ever experienced and see and hear nothing for 4-5 days in a row.

The mental part of elk hunting is far tougher than the physical part. That is, until you get one down solo!
jmez
Rank: An Elk Nut
 
Posts: 755
Joined: 01 07, 2014
Location: Piedmont, SD
First Name: jason
Last Name: mez

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Swede » 04 10, 2020 •  [Post 9]

There is an impression that it takes more patience to tree stand hunt than with other types. I don't think so. I am not into run and gun. I find calling takes an immense amount of patience. The most patience, in my economy, is needed with spot and stalk hunting. You glass and watch for a long time, then you put on the stalk. So, you need to be patient twice, and likely the most patience is required during the stalking part. It can be the most exasperating too.
As I sit here in my stand, I will go back to reading my book now.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Indian Summer » 04 10, 2020 •  [Post 10]

jmez wrote:Mental toughness/expectations. This doesn't get talked about near as much as the "Mtn Athlete Toughness." This is where I think the majority of new guys, especially eastern hunters fail. The two things that contribute to this are land area and game density.

I grew up a white tail tree stand hunter in southeast NE. Incredible deer hunting. I'm not sure I ever went hunting and didn't see deer. Usually you would see a lot of deer. Then, on the way home in the headlights you would see a lot more. They are everywhere. The places you hunt them are not big. They aren't hard to find. There is a house every half mile.

You get out west and get on the side of a mountain and can see for 80 miles and there are 0 signs of civilization. That is hugely overwhelming for a guy that has never experienced that. Then couple that with a low density of the game you are hunting and you have a quick recipe for quitting. Growing up I could not even fathom a half day hunt and not seeing something, that didn't exist. Now go to a foreign place that is physically demanding, far bigger than anything you have ever experienced and see and hear nothing for 4-5 days in a row.

The mental part of elk hunting is far tougher than the physical part. That is, until you get one down solo!


Where’s the like button!!! Spot on every word!
User avatar
Indian Summer
Wapiti Hunting Consultant
 
Posts: 5247
Joined: 06 14, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Ferraro

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Lefty » 04 11, 2020 •  [Post 11]

Swede wrote:Another false impression I see newbies get is that; if they follow some guru's advise, they will be instantly successful. If you believe that, you can get very discouraged. I hope you become addicted and challenged to score. Often the first elk is your hardest to get.

My "first rifle elk was easy. relatively. It was before the days of the mass promotions.
At that time we lived at 252 foot elevation. and would be hunting at 6-9000 foot. So I worked out,.. no other reason than I knew I needed to be in top shape,.. nobody was promoting elk fitness, but I played in elk country summer and winter and was concerned about elevation :lol:
While my wife and her dad did some archery hunting I learned their methods of western hunting from them. And I didnt always follow their advise.
My wife went crazy that I set up a tree stand for a few big mulies :lol: :lol:

When I was hunting the desert the fellow that hunted the same area I did before his passing (cigarette lung cancer) told a family who went all out elk hunting. The daughter in law was a real archress. They took up elk archery hunting as a family. The DIL knew how to shoot. New bows new everything, for the rest of them; they looked like a Sitka Team commercial,.. They also tried to apply woodland calling techniques in the open country. So they had a good mix of wrong impressions.
My first time seeing them I heard a perfect distant bugle. , They were beautifully skylined 3/4 mile away. :lol: The next time literally jogging down the road with lights bouncing.

Ive never thought of other celebrity types as "gods" Ive am able to pick and chose what I decide to use. Im guessing early on most of my elk encounters were mostly because I can find game. I had way more elk experiences than a newbie should.

My mentor was Archery Talk. I quickly separated the chaff from the grain on the Forum. There was this fellow by the name of " Paul" That I was quite impressed with his matter of fact/and experience attitude and writings. Then he created his own elk hunting forum,... :D

I (we) trapped different than others, I goose hunted different than others, and this "Paul"guy hunted different than others.

Then I moved my hunting to the mountains. I stared using calls more often,.. ,.. And thats the type of hunting I prefer.


Anyway I listened to a Webinar the other night. I was pleased as could be that the one speaker named Paul, I was nearly aligned with his methodology. But I still need better understanding of elk talk
There are still some new things I need to learn,.. Ive heard a cow bugle once in my life,.. hmm sounds like fun ,.. But Ill practice someplace I wont be hunting :o
User avatar
Lefty
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 6926
Joined: 06 25, 2012
Location: Pocatello Idaho
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: H

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Swede » 04 11, 2020 •  [Post 12]

I am not going to name any of the gurus that come to mind, but will say you do not need to be a world champion contender to effectively call elk. You do not need to be a super-marathoner and run into the wilderness fueled on pine nuts and granola to get to the elk. You do not need to Buy a lot of new products or endless advise. Some advise is fine, and some general principles will help if you can apply them to your situation.
You are either a newbie, or cult follower if you consult a book, or I phone app when you hear a bull bugle. :lol:
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Lefty » 04 11, 2020 •  [Post 13]

Swede wrote:I am not going to name any of the gurus that come to mind, but will say you do not need to be a world champion contender to effectively call elk. You do not need to be a super-marathoner and run into the wilderness fueled on pine nuts and granola to get to the elk. You do not need to Buy a lot of new products or endless advise. Some advise is fine, and some general principles will help if you can apply them to your situation.
You are either a newbie, or cult follower if you consult a book, or I phone app when you hear a bull bugle. :lol:


First I hate pine nuts :lol:
And the world famous marathoner I knew one , he hunted whitetail ,.. and ran a dairy.,,,,,,,,
And Like some guys I do enough every day to stay in better shape than many,
Cant say Ive ever carried a book along on the hunt,.. in the tent maybe. And sometimes I get cell reception and check facebook or this forum 8-)
Coming from outside the elk world there have always been the big promoters and salesman talkers and educators in other areas. And many of those guys are good, very good or great.And there are some guys that are great and you seldom hear a peep ,,, for what ever reason. I just think most hunters of any level or promotion or experience have something to offer.Some have much more.

And I certainly dont have the nerve to consult my phone app after hearing a bugle,.. Im shaking alread, y just at the thought :lol:
User avatar
Lefty
Wapiti Hunting - Strategy and Tactics
 
Posts: 6926
Joined: 06 25, 2012
Location: Pocatello Idaho
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: H

Re: Wrong Impressions

Postby Swede » 04 11, 2020 •  [Post 14]

I was certainly not referring to you in either the cult follower or newbie category. You are really ok in my book and more than that, you are comfortable in your own hide. You don't have to imitate anyone.

I write, "rant" I suppose to some; that a few of us are trying to make this whole hunting experience too complicated. It just does not have to be that way. There are some great mentors in the elk hunting game. I suppose they all make some good points, but my advise is to read or listen to some of what is out there. I have many books and some DVDs/videos that have some excellent advise. I too am a debtor to some of those promoters. I just think they take things too far, are too full of themselves and unwittingly make elk hunting sound far too technical and complicated. Some knowledge will definitely help, but it is best when it is wed to experience.
Swede
Wapiti Hunting - Tree Stand Tactics
 
Posts: 10215
Joined: 06 16, 2012