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Indiscriminate Elk Calling

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Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby Swede » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 1]

Most or all of you have read my rants against indiscriminate and excessive calling. Some others and I talk of pressurized elk almost like they are in panic mode from a week before the archery season opener until the heavy snow flies in the late Fall. I have claimed that people should learn elk and their habits before they start going around making sounds hoping to entice one to come to you, only to spook them away again when they do.
So here is my question: If you are new to elk hunting, how do you learn how to use a call effectively without blowing on one? Doesn't practice make perfect? How do you learn where to setup without experimenting a lot? How do you get an elk if you just sit quiet, or give out a short bugle or cow call once an hour in the elk woods? Isn't calling what gets you into shooting range of elk?
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby saddlesore » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 2]

There are a lot of very good DVD's on the market to start on. Pauls 4 are an example.However, calling is definitely not the first thing or even the 10th that a person needs to know to start elk hunting successfully.

Before all these high tech calls,reeds, or diaphragms were on the market, a lot of us were killing bulls. Sometimes only using a bugle made out of a piece of electrical conduit with a plug of wood in it, but more often than not, just by using woodsmen's skills of moving slowly, paying attention to the wind and knowing how elk live.
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby Swede » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 3]

I agree 100% Vince. Poor calling is worse than none. My success did not improve when I bought my first elk calls and listening to Larry D Jones. He was the foremost caller for years, but without fully understanding the use of calls, they were counterproductive. It was frustrating to hear bulls answer and get them to approach, only to have them hang up and turn away.
I think we can liken calling to placing spices on our food. Pepper is good and makes SOME food taste better, but don't pour the whole load on your dish. Like pepper, calling is not the answer for every situation. Does anyone put pepper on ice cream?
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby 7mmfan » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 4]

Youtube hasn't helped this situation at all. So many videos of guys out there just ripping on bugles all day long every day, and most will openly admit that if an elk doesn't vocalize, they have no idea how to find them. It makes anyone new that is trying to learn and pick up tips from these videos assume that if they aren't vocal, you can't kill them. It takes guys many years if starting on their own without mentors to figure this part out, and learn to slow down and HUNT. Calling is not hunting, calling is a tool used in the right circumstance while hunting.
I hunt therefore I am. I fish therefore I lie.
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby Lefty » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 5]

I didn’t and still don’t know how to be the very most effective at calling we’re prepared to shoot and maybe too selective when we call
In a whole day of hunting we might only call from 7-9 locations
In the area we hunt we haven’t come across many guys that call which may be good for us the guys that sound good are so often standing on a ridge , skylined evidently didn’t watch the whole DVD
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 6]

Only a fool (or grossly inexperienced) hunter throws out elk noises indiscriminately. Yes, it takes a “bit” of time to learn when and how to do what.
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby Swede » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 7]

WapitiTalk1 wrote:Only a fool (or grossly inexperienced) hunter throws out elk noises indiscriminately. Yes, it takes a “bit” of time to learn when and how to do what.


Everyone with a call thinks they know what they are doing. Even the guy I saw with about eight different calls hung around his neck surely thought he had a great plan. The calls all looked pretty fancy. The problem is if we do not know the area or how the elk react to calls, how do we know what is "indiscriminate"?
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 8]

Swede wrote:
WapitiTalk1 wrote:Only a fool (or grossly inexperienced) hunter throws out elk noises indiscriminately. Yes, it takes a “bit” of time to learn when and how to do what.


Everyone with a call thinks they know what they are doing. Even the guy I saw with about eight different calls hung around his neck surely thought he had a great plan. The calls all looked pretty fancy. The problem is if we do not know the area or how the elk react to calls, how do we know what is "indiscriminate"?


8 calls? Sounds like a snake oil salesman :D
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby Swede » 03 13, 2020 •  [Post 9]

He was a young guy I met when I came out to my pickup in the evening. He had been hunting the same canyon I was in. I do not remember ever hearing him blow on one of his calls. Maybe they were just there for looks. I do not remember what he had for a bugle, but the string of cow calls had wooden barrels on them and looked quite similar.
One sure way to tell you are looking at a rookie, is by observing all the matching new gear.
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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby Lefty » 03 15, 2020 •  [Post 10]

Swede wrote:
WapitiTalk1 wrote:Only a fool (or grossly inexperienced) hunter throws out elk noises indiscriminately. Yes, it takes a “bit” of time to learn when and how to do what.

Everyone with a call thinks they know what they are doing. Even the guy I saw with about eight different calls hung around his neck surely thought he had a great plan. The calls all looked pretty fancy. The problem is if we do not know the area or how the elk react to calls, how do we know what is "indiscriminate"?


Its the newbies that aren't on this forum that are the fools :shock:

Unfortunately real experiences often happen at the expense of others in the woods or field. It is also how you learn and get good. Im still learner, I'm still getting better at appropriate talking with elk. and that takes at home, in the truck practice and in the field.

Here I go again generalizing elk and geese.
I learned to call and hunt geese from the very best goose hunters and call makers,.. and elk, the best elk hunting forums, Elknut tips and clips, and an afternoon visit on a slow June day at Cabelas in Boise with some guy named Corey selling elk :shock:
I learned a long time ago with goose ( and coyote) you need to say the right thing, the right way at the right time,,,, and Im still working on that.
The wrong sound, the wrong way, at the wrong time, each is indiscriminate calling.

Over the years I have hunted with or on adjoining fields for geese with competition goose callers, and state champions , and have seen some incredible elk buglers!
Beautiful sounds.
More elk or goosey than an elk or goose.
But those wonderful sounds at the wrong time, or wrong cadence or even at all will blow the elk or geese away.

And as I mentioned earlier about those elk buglers were sky-lined. One instance a year past, we had three bulls in a steep canyon. At first light the answers fired up bulls were working our way. We were in the middle of two bugling bulls one direction and another the opposite Thick and nasty and very slow moving. ( yep goofed up we should have made a racket and charged in set up and waited.) the canyon draft was perfect.
Tree guys show up on the canyon ridge and bugled. I believe we did the same thing as the elk. looked up and saw those guys on the ridge. One bull went answered then all was silent. The bugler on the ridge shut up those talkers and most of the cows too the calves kept talking.

My advise, and Im no expert, yet and going from the goose hunting calling , maybe start low and slow.

My daughter isnt not very good with a bugle (easy-blowing, learning older Primos pack bugle) And a Cory Jacobson 10 year-old open-reed two tone cow call.
Three times she has taken that combo in to the woods, Twice; places she/we hadnt been before. A single cow call. waited 4 minutes, single simple something close to a locate bugle sound. All three times last week of the season, she brought in bulls ,
Way under doing the calling. Just a teaser sound! maybe the bulls didnt know fully .

Ok a goose story.
A local goose caller hunted with me, fellow kills a few geese and sounds incredible and can make sounds I cant, or Im not so great at making.
The first flight of geese He blew off at 100 yards , I have never heard such loud calling from the blind. Anyway he could make all the best sounds and didnt know how to use them.

And Swede Just because you hunt elk by sitting in a tree,.. being quiet and keeping the stink down ,.. is just a boring way to hunt elk

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Re: Indiscriminate Elk Calling

Postby Swede » 03 15, 2020 •  [Post 11]

I agree with the idea of starting low and slow.

I have learned some about calling from my tree stand hunting. I often rake and stomp around, then give out a short bugle before I climb into my stand. It is interesting how often an elk will come around an hour or more later. They come and look around. They don't come in to wallow or get a drink. I believe they are looking for the elk they heard earlier. When they can't see it, they leave. You need to be careful where you call from near a tree stand, as it may allow them to view the location from too far away. This is something I have learned since writing the tree stand book. I too am still learning. There is no pill we can take that completes our elk hunting education.

The excessive callers impact my hunting less than they affect the other callers and themselves. They can run off the animals which hurts everyone, or they can cause them to become call shy and not respond to calls as much. I have found that by calling a little and waiting a long time (being patient) the elk get curious and will eventually come around. Most callers would be long gone and have no clue about what really happened.
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