What Is The Point?

[Swede]

I have 10 preference points for elk here in Oregon. To get the hunt I want it takes about 16 points now and I am dealing with some point creep. I should have started years sooner, but getting an elk was simple enough, so I did not apply for a "quality hunt". This season I will be 73 and it is questionable how long I will be able to make good use of a limited entry unit. There are some hunts especially for cows that I think I could draw with 11 or 12 points. So, here is my question: Should I hold out as long as I can take advantage of the high end hunt, or go for a decent hunt here in Oregon? I could still buy another out of State tag for a bull only area?
Something that I have been contemplating is; what would it prove if I kill a big bull in a unit where there are so many big bulls that a 6X6 is the norm? Does anyone think that demonstrates some significant hunter skill that the guy that gets a spike in an OTC unit doesn't have?

[7mmfan]

I have 10 preference points for elk here in Oregon. To get the hunt I want it takes about 16 points now and I am dealing with some point creep. I should have started years sooner, but getting an elk was simple enough, so I did not apply for a "quality hunt". This season I will be 73 and it is questionable how long I will be able to make good use of a limited entry unit. There are some hunts especially for cows that I think I could draw with 11 or 12 points. So, here is my question: Should I hold out as long as I can take advantage of the high end hunt, or go for a decent hunt here in Oregon? I could still buy another out of State tag for a bull only area?
Something that I have been contemplating is; what would it prove if I kill a big bull in a unit where there are so many big bulls that a 6X6 is the norm? Does anyone think that demonstrates some significant hunter skill that the guy that gets a spike in an OTC unit doesn't have?

I don't necessarily think that you have to view it as hunter prowess or skill. We all want to hunt those units to experience what it's like to hunt in situations like that. They're so few and far between anymore. That being said, I'd rather hunt elk with mediocre tags frequently, than one awesome hunt every 16 years. That's my take anyway.

[saddlesore]

I waited 21 years to hunt in an area that had 25 tags issued each year. Trust me, it was not a "Gimme" hunt and the chances of taking a quality bull of more than a 6x6 were slim. It took me days to find one and every trick Elknut has in his book to kill it.
During the 21 year period I hunted elk every year with an OTC tag and killed cows, raghorns, and 6x6' s .Some of them were "gimme" hunts, some I worked my butt off for, but I believe I worked hardest for that bull than any of them.The nice thing about it though was the chance to hunt an area will little hunter pressure and hunt the elk in their natural state rather than figuring out what the elk were doing because of other hunters

Fast forward few years. I had 17 moose points and the chance of drawing a bull moose tag in Colorado before I was too old to hunt them was slim to none for me and slim already saddled up and left. I was in my early 70's.

So I put in for a Ranching For Wildlife cow moose tag and drew one of two tags awarded. It wasn't a hard hunt, about 15 minutes long the first morning, but it was not a high fence hunt. Scouting let me know exactly where the moose were and they don't more around much. Not a big deal, but I checked that box off on my bucket list. I had already tagged a Bighorn Sheep and Rocky Mountain Goat. Since tagging those two, I accumulated about 15 more points for each, but gave up two years ago putting in as I was no longer capable of doing those hunts.

I don't put in for points now as at the start of each year ,I don't know if my heath and physical disabilities will even permit me to hunt that year.

So that's the rub. If you have 11 points now and it take 16, probably 22-23 with point creep, will you be too old to physically do the hunt ? If your gut says no, bail out now to at least get you a better than average quality hunt .However,don't think that 20 point hunt or so will get you a hunt that will insure a quality bull with less effort. It might at least get you a quality hunt with less hunters..Your choice!!!

[wawhitey]

I think saddlesore pretty much nailed it with the low pressure comment. Hard to draw hunts have less hunters due to the limited tags. Its an opportunity to hunt an area with quality animals but low hunter pressure. Its not about proving anything by the trophy quality, its about having a quality hunting experience. Besides, hunting for big mature animals doesnt have to be about proving a damn thing. Its about wanting to test yourself against the best the species has to offer. And if you really enjoy hunting elk, whitetail, mule deer, whatever it is, going after young animals doesnt have the satisfaction that going after mature animals does. If i wanted to shoot 2 year old bucks, my deer season would last a day or two each year. I enjoy whitetail hunting too much to only spend 2 days per year doing it. Chasing mature animals, raising the bar, will make you spend more time hunting and make you a better hunter. When a game animal lives through 5 or 10 hunting seasons, its not because its stupid.

[saddlesore]

Here is photo I took for Paul's benefit of that bull in the 21 year wait. Not me in the photo.

Pauls pict.jpg (362.92 KiB) Viewed 2970 times

[Swede]

You characters are confusing me.

I don't see the difference in hunt quality between sitting alone in my tree in an OTC unit and sitting alone in my stand in a very limited draw one. To me the hunt quality is the same.
I don't care if the elk has a Phd. in hunter evasion or not. If I did, I would stay in the unit where the elk has the most hunters to try and evade.
The greatest challenge is to get a big bull where they are scarce, not where they are abundant and very lightly hunted.
The State, magazines, outfitters, tv shows, etc. all wax eloquent on and on about the big bulls. Cows and spikes don't get much acclaim.
The ranches with high fences charge by the score of the animal you shoot. You can take a cow for little more than the cost of room and board and the price of meat.
The successful big bull hunter takes the head and antlers to a taxidermist to have it mounted for display in his home or office. How many cow heads have you seen mounted lately.
I worked many years in the forests and had thousands of days out without hunter competition. I can go camp in the limited entry units all I want. I can get away from hunters where I am hunting now.

The bottom line is that I thought I would like to hunt a limited entry unit and reliably shoot another big bull. Now I am starting to rethink my priorities. I don't want to hunt another State where I know very little about the area, and hunt alone where the average success is about 10%. I don't want a big bull enough to hire an outfitter or go inside a fence. I enjoy my hunts and find them challenging enough. I believe I got on this draw points treadmill without thinking it through very well. Anyway guys, I like the discussion.

[7mmfan]

Sounds like you need to just keep doing what you're doing then. Keep applying for that pie in the sky tag, and maybe you'll get it and enjoy a hunt where big bulls are more available. In the mean time you can keep hunting the stands you like, killing elk, and maybe get a shot at a big one while doing it and making yourself happy testing your skills on those wiley hard hunted animals.

[saddlesore]

Swede.Come to Colorado and hunt archery one year.You will get a whole new appreciation of pressure. Drawing a coveted tag in a area will not reliably get you that big bull. I hunt cows almost exclusively now because I am tired of chewy on bull meat.However, if I want to hunt a 2nd season after my ML hunt, OTC Bulls are about all can do unless I find a few left over cow tags or want to hunt them in 2 ft of snow. Then it is any legal bull.

I only have three bull mounts and one antler mount. All were special hunts. I did so to help the remembrance of those hunts.The antlers are the1st elk I killed back in about 1966..One bull is the only guided hunt I ever did and it was in Alberta. Another was a particular hard hunt and the third was the bull I got after the 21 year wait. All the rest are antlers nailed up on my barn ,garage or equipment shed. or in a pile that the squirrels chew on. The cows,since I don't pack out the heads, the hides are hung on my coral fence or in stalls to keep the mules accustom to the smells.

I saw a set of mounts once that had a bull,c ow, and a calf all mounted right close to each other.

[Swede]

You jerks make a lot of good sense. I am just struggling in my mind on what I should do. I think I will gather up points for another year or two, and then opt for a good rifle hunt. I would like to go on another gun hunt and reminisce about some bygone hunts. Maybe I can go back in time when friends and family, that have passed away, were able to climb the hills. We would come back to camp in the evening and "complain" how hard it was, then get up early the next day and do it again. Maybe I will just hike out to a good observation point, overlooking a canyon and adjacent hillside, and wait for an nice fat 6X6. Saddlesore he is going to be tender and juicy too.

[saddlesore]

Maybe I will just hike out to a good observation point, overlooking a canyon and adjacent hillside, and wait for an nice fat 6X6. Saddlesore he is going to be tender and juicy too.

I sure hope so. The last the last two 6X's I killed, one took me 5 years to eat,and other that I killed in 2018, I am still chewing on.

[ishy]

So I'm a meat hunter. I totally relate that a spike in an OTC unit impresses me more than a big elk from a le unit. That being said I tagged along on a buddies Utah hunt in 2018. He's over 60 and has only hunted OTC units. Those days had about the funnest 10 days in the woods I've ever had. We saw 6 points every day. Those big ones just have another level of majesty that captures the soul. We heard and saw more elk my first morning there than we would in a typical season in our usual North Idaho jungles. He didn't tag one, but he will never forget some of the experiences. So I to use to wonder if those units are even worth it, today I don't doubt it at all.

[7mmfan]

I'll add one more tidbit to this thread. in 2017 I drew a coveted quality elk permit in WA. A rifle hunt during the rut. There were only 3 tags given for the entire unit. Drawing these tags is blind luck to begin with in WA, but I drew it with 4 points, when MANY people applied with 25 or more. I was excited to hunt during the rut, but had no experience with it. I'd never killed a branched antlered bull before, but had killed many spikes and cows. This was a first for me in many ways. I scouted hard, knew where animals were, and on the opening day of the hunt the first elk I called in was a mediocre 6 point. I pulled the trigger 20 minutes after day break on the first day of a very difficult to draw hunt on a mediocre bull when I knew there were bigger bulls in the area.

I have no regrets with the bull I killed, as I'm not in this game for antlers. I would have killed a spike in the last day or two of the hunt had it presented itself. As it was, I was looking at the biggest bull I'd ever had the opportunity to kill, and I'd just called him in to archery range. My only regret is not experiencing the hunt longer. It was peak rut timing and bulls were getting fired up. Anyone who has hunted elk in that situation knows how special and rare it is. I was done before it even started and I wish I'd been able to spend more time in the woods hunting.

So I guess in closing, it's not about the ability to hunt for big un-pressured bulls, it's about being able to hunt un-pressured elk that are being elk and immerse yourself in the moment. I hope to be able to do it again someday soon. In the meantime I'll hunt OTC and easy to draw tags every chance I get, because I love elk hunting.